Posted by Radio2600 It was suggested that someone start a thread consisting of pics of your ride parked in front of an abandonment. http://farm3.stati...561_d0d9c75b6c.jpg

Dude.. thats so freegen sweet.

Posted by Samurai it's already being sold everywhere else but here... i think it's known in Europe as the Chevrolet Lacetti.

You mean this piece of shit:



!?

Why the hell would a modern forward thinking civilised country base ANYTHING on that re-badged Daewoo turd!? If you look at the sales figures, they only sold a couple of thousand of them in the UK for a reason!

Stay tuned America!! Coming up next, the exciting new Chevrolet ARSE;



It's been sold as the Daewoo Tacuma in Europe for twenty years, it's styled like a buttock and has the power and efficiency of an electric cheese-grater!

Start saving NOW folks, base model starts at just $24,000.

Posted by geoff5093 There are lots of cars that have higher estimated mileage in an automatic then in the manual versions.

I had a wee google around; but couldn't find much to support your claims, other than US Dept/Tran 'average' tests which are inherently flawed for a number of reasons:

(Comparing five speed manuals to six speed autos, comparing fully loaded versions of manual cars (heavier) to base model autos, etc etc etc)

Also, if you base your 'estimated' calculation on a country which on average has no fucking idea how to use a stick shift (US and Canada); then yes, on average that could be true. Mary Jane Shit-For-Brains whose driven stick once in her life will probably NOT be able to beat an auto for economy.

So for those reasons I'd say the US figures are all bollocks and I'll care when a more credible source (European TUV testing, perhaps) tells me Auto is best (which will be never).

Besides which, estimated FE figures are usually fairy tales anyway.

Chris...

Yo, you know how I roll.

click to view

The few people I have spoken with at the US DOT always have told me that with the same car, the manual tranission option will always get better fuel economy compared to the automatic in the EPA mileage calculations.

Automatics used be to way worse on performance and fuel economy; the old big boats of the 50s were just awful compared to the same car with the stick. Buicks from that era comes to mind. Barely could climb hills due to the huge powerloss.

Posted by Buffalonian Yo, you know how I roll. click to view

Needs moar raptor!!

There are times when an automatic is far superior to a standard trans.

Posted by cr400 There are times when an automatic is far superior to a standard trans.

Ya, when you can't drive stick!

Ouch!

In instances where a more controled delivery of power is needed, automatics have proven themselves to be superior. The new models are much stronger and use much less power than their predecessors.

I'm not sure you can even purchase a World Trials type motorcycle with a standard transmission anymore?

We all know what pussies they are........

The 1950's?? That is like 12 generations ago technology wise. Hell, even the Powerglide had a cast iron case until the early 60's. You must be talking about the Dynaflow, a very good concept for the time, but as with any new technology, it left quite a bit to be improved on at a later date. We could compare the Apple I or even the Commodore VIC-20 to todays computers and laugh. Even pocket calculators. It's all apples to oranges. The autos using this technology will always have more power loss because they have to pump fluid just to work. But they are better due to TCC's and improved design stators and the like. Planetary gearsets are inheretly inefficient also. But even that is changing. But they are not anywhere near whet they were in the 70's. They are very close to that of a manual. I just don't like them so much except for racing. You can't shift faster than one, and you can't multiply torque like a converter.

But surely those $50,000.00 crunch and go paddle shifter transmissions like in F1, Indy, or Rally cars would be great in my El Dorado. You know the ones that are more like a motorcycle transmission.

Findin' neutral is a bitch, but you only need the clutch for take off. I wonder how many miles I can get between rebuilds?

Posted by cr400 Ouch! In instances where a more controlled delivery of power is needed, automatics have proven themselves to be superior.

Yes, if you are a retard and can't work a clutch.

An auto can't detect what type of surface you are on (until it's moving anyway) (so good luck with smooth power transmission on ice, sand, gravel or snow), nor can it feather its clutches, nor can it read the road ahead. These reasons (and some others) will always put it behind a driver who knows what he's doing with the clutch pedal.

If you can't drive as smoothly as an auto in a manual car, you need to either improve or stop driving a manual.

My 2p.

Chris...

If you ever get out here I'll show ya how us retards drive off road.

If you've ever made the shift from 1st to 2nd, Hell even 2nd to 3rd while trying to get up on top of the sand in a long uphill sand wash. Only then will you know what I'm talkin' about....I own both standard and automatics. I know the limitations of both.

As for the power delivery, I guess drag racers don't know what the fuck they're doing in getting 2500HP to the ground in 4 seconds?

And I'm sure Rock crawlers would much rather worry about clutching over 20' boulders.

Hell, Any body that thinks that a standard transmission is the end all cure for all automotive performance scenarios, has got a fucking screw loose, or doesn't know jack shit about automobiles.

Drag racers with 2.5K HP don't have to worry much about fuel economy, hmmmmm?

A bit like comparing a 747 to a bicycle with that example matey. Last I looked we're talking passenger cars!

And as for off-roading, 85% of all off-road spec Land Rovers and Range Rovers sold in Europe have manual trans as standard; I haven't heard any outcry from owners on how an auto would be a lot better, in fact they seem to hobble along fine; somehow managing to do everything you mentioned and a lot more besides.

Chris...

_{PS: For the avoidance of doubt, I was not personally calling you a retard. I was using the global sense of 'you' and alluding to our specific example of the average person, in this case Mary Jane Shit-for-Brains. I'm sure your clutch control is exemplary and I'm sure the car companies do not use you as the yardstick in their tests.}

automatics have been and will be shit.
shit shit shit.
Crap.

on a big V8, yeah, ok... automatics are happy happy joy joy because a V8 has power to spare.
on a small displacement engine, automatics are a huge mistake.

Posted by Samurai on a big V8, yeah, ok... automatics are happy happy joy joy because a V8 has power to spare.

I disagree, theres nothin like dropping the clutch in a big V8 and leaving two black tracks up the road

Posted by turbozutek Drag racers with 2.5K HP don't have to worry much about fuel economy, hmmmmm?

Highest mileage production vehicle for sale here is a Prius.

Prius has an electronic continuously variable automatic transmission that helps the Prius achieve high mileage.

Granted, manual tranny and clutch will ALWAYS give greater control in various areas, and "unintended acceleration" shouldn't be an issue.

But good auto's are pretty close to manuals in absolute efficiency now, and in some cases, like CVT, can be better.

I've owned 4 sticks and 2 autos. First auto was due to move to large city with nasty, heavy clutch foot exhausting, stop and go traffic. 2nd is my current Prius. After the 350 HP Stealth TT...

Posted by MikeEBike But good auto's are pretty close to manuals in absolute efficiency now, and in some cases, like CVT, can be better.

CVT can be better, but as I mentioned earlier that's just due to a higher possible top gearing.

Which means it'll perform well on a long motorway run without much change in load / acceleration, but for everything else (city, combination, stop/go) it'll be a bit better than a regular auto, but still shite compared to a well shifted manual.

So good news if you live right on the edge of a quiet highway and get off one exit from your work. For everyone else in the real world; tough luck!

That is, until its belt snaps, then it'll be fucked.

And as for the Prius - that car doesn't sell well here because it simply doesn't make any sense. For the same money I can get a Jaguar X-Type 2l CDTi which is a far nicer car and does 4MPG more even when it's driven like you stole it.

So yeah, more of a following in The States for that one I think.

Chris...

Posted by MikeEBike Highest mileage production vehicle for sale here is a Prius. Prius has an electronic continuously variable automatic transmission that helps the Prius achieve high mileage. Granted, manual tranny and clutch will ALWAYS give greater control in various areas, and "unintended acceleration" shouldn't be an issue. But good auto's are pretty close to manuals in absolute efficiency now, and in some cases, like CVT, can be better. I've owned 4 sticks and 2 autos. First auto was due to move to large city with nasty, heavy clutch foot exhausting, stop and go traffic. 2nd is my current Prius. After the 350 HP Stealth TT...

you overlooked one thing when mentioning the Prius... the Prius does not count because the transmission is part of the Hybrid drive that is under computer control. A manual transmission would add too much complexity to the programming, add too many variables. So, eliminate the variables. Also, people who buy Prius' are people who hate cars anyway and probably have never learned to drive a manual transmission anyway. Also, if you want high mileage out of your car, both in fuel economy and longevity, you buy a small displacement turbo diesel with a manual transmission... something like a Golf or Jetta TDI. That's real environmental concern because not only are the cars using proven technology, they also recycle, can be scrapped and reused as parts cars and can be rebuild. I believe that Bandi has an older New Beetle with 500,000km on the odometer... still runs like a watch. The Prius does not repair well, nor does it recycle well. Also, the so-called footprint it takes to build one is enough to give a greenpeace activist a siezure.



As for durability, the automatic will ALWAYS BE FAIL. ALWAYS.
i have seen so many automatic-equipped cars in salvage yards, always there for the same damn reason- blown transmissions. As for efficiency, I will never agree to the statement that the automatic will ever be superior to a manual in that department. In a manual transmission, you have a clutch hooked to a gearbox with nothing but oil in there for lubrication. Most manual gearboxes are lightweight and are really simple. Automatic transmissions are heavy for starters and then when you couple the losses in the fluid, the torque converter, the losses in the valve bodies, it's just going to ever equal a manual.
Now the other automative abomination, the CVT, is a fucking nightmare... GM tried it with the Saturn Vue and it was fucking junk. Subaru tried it on the little Justy... again FAIL! So now Nissan is trying it and Ford, who forgot how to build automatic transmissions after 1976, is trying it. Automatics are prevalent in America now, in my opinion, because Americans are fat and lazy. Also, the manufacturer gets how much extra for an automatic transmission on the sticker of the car?

I've been offroading for ten years in New Mexico, Colorado, and now Arizona in a Corolla. People are a little surprised when they see it on trails.

Transmission still runs great (knock on wood), but I've gone through a few oil pans.

Also I'd hate to drive a manual on 20 hour trips. Automatic has it place in distance driving.

It's more like I'm comparing a 747 to a C130, they both fly, but neither one is the end all in air transport. they both do what they do, and they do it well.

I love the standard shift vehicles I've owned and driven. My 4x4 Nissan and Toyota 4x4 were great offroad, they went in the deep sand well, once you got them up on top and moving.

My automatics just do it quicker and with a lot less drama.

I'll Stress that I'm sure I have more flight time at 70MPH, sideways and 3' above the ground than 95% of the people on the UER site.

With that said, I'm the expert on traction, adhesion, momentum, non winged flying, gravity, and blunt force trauma...........Broken bones, pain, being lost, thirst........Plus I'm older and better lookin'

I'm tellin' ya' If your ever out here, we'll go goat trailin' on some two wheelers, they have clutches.

Cheers
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