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MutantMandias
       
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
 |  |  | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 80 on 4/6/2007 2:51 AM >
|  | | | Posted by blackhawk
Murals I like, but...
In the case of damaged property it has no merit what so ever.
It's an expensive, pain in the ass clean up.
It's bad enough outside, but they love to interior decorate too.
It makes sites that were untouched look like shit.
And then the smashing starts. All the glass. Doors. Walls. Cats. Pianos.
read between the lines
Then one one of them lights a fire...
fuck that.
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Sigh. Just because it's wrong to do, and a hassle for people to get rid of, doesn't mean that it cannot have artistic merit.
Just because Nazis did some research, doesn't mean that the results don't have scientific value.
Posted by Deuterium
The property owner is the judge of merit. Not you.
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No, idiot. NO.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The property owner is the judge of how much of a pain in the ass it is, and what to do about it, but none of that has any effect on the art-ness of it.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 81 on 4/6/2007 3:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by MutantMandias
Sigh. Just because it's wrong to do, and a hassle for people to get rid of, doesn't mean that it cannot have artistic merit.
Just because Nazis did some research, doesn't mean that the results don't have scientific value.
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Sorry, but I must disagree with you on that.
The Nazis destroyed many a sink and toilet, but they didn't stop there.
Remember the piano....
Umm what are you smokin'?
These aren't rocket Scientists we're talking about
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 82 on 4/6/2007 4:28 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
The Nazis destroyed many a sink and toilet, but they didn't stop there.
Remember the piano....
Umm what are you smokin'?
These aren't rocket Scientists we're talking about
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Wha?
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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LizBellum
Gender: Female
Be really excellent at everything!
| |  | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 83 on 4/6/2007 4:39 AM >
| | | | Thank god Banksy stenciled cats, because this thread is just dying to be kittened up. [But only after Mandias pointed out that art and vandalism are not mutually exclusive. GEEEEENIIIUUUS!]
flickrgrrrrl :: boyfuckingracer |
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Air
location:
Canada
| | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 84 on 4/6/2007 4:41 AM >
| | | | Posted by rainman8889
Agreed here.
Regardless of how well the piece was thought out and made, if it was sprayed on a structure without the owner's permission, it is plain vandalism.
And that includes all structures. Public property (ie overpasses) or private property (buildings etc).
Just my two cents worth in this never ending battle.
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SO by that accord you always get written permission to UE the buildings you enter...right! Cause that sure is a black and white view of the world.
[last edit 4/6/2007 4:42 AM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 85 on 4/6/2007 5:21 AM >
| | | | 
You want this done on your car windshield?
If not, then it would be vandalism, boys and girls.
It's not such a hard concept to grasp.
When you damage someone else's property, it's not acceptable.
Artwork gets paint over by thoughtless thugs:
http://news.bbc.co...merset/6444501.stm
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 86 on 4/6/2007 6:20 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
You want this done on your car windshield?
If not, then it would be vandalism, boys and girls.
It's not such a hard concept to grasp.
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No shit. EVERYONE understands this. All of us. Graffiti is technically vandalism, and vandalism is potentially harmful to someone (but it is not necessarily).
It is not a hard concept to grasp at all, and you have taught us well, oh wise one.
But you need to fucking accept that it can still be beautiful, whether it is criminal or not. Whether it is harmful or not. Whether it is vandalism or not.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 87 on 4/6/2007 6:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by MutantMandias
No shit. EVERYONE understands this. All of us. Graffiti is technically vandalism, and vandalism is potentially harmful to someone (but it is not necessarily).
It is not a hard concept to grasp at all, and you have taught us well, oh wise one.
But you need to fucking accept that it can still be beautiful, whether it is criminal or not. Whether it is harmful or not. Whether it is vandalism or not.
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Ah your right. The Phantom is a true artist, a graf genius.
It just took a few hundred times of seeing it to dawn on me.
One man's art is another's scribbled rants.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Soldat
location:
Philadelphia, PA
Gender: Male
The Mayor of Noobtown
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 88 on 4/6/2007 7:04 AM >
| | | | By "The Phantom" do you mean that guy who writes "Phantom" 7 times in every room in every abandonment he has ever been to?
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 89 on 4/6/2007 7:28 AM >
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No, idiot. NO.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The property owner is the judge of how much of a pain in the ass it is, and what to do about it, but none of that has any effect on the art-ness of it.
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You've got temper issues. By your logic, I should pour paint stripper on your car. Why not? I think the appearance of peeling paint on your car has an artistic merit to it.
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CaptOrbit
location:
Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 90 on 4/6/2007 7:28 AM >
| | | | Up until about two years ago I had a 26’ft panel truck. One time when I knew I wouldn't be needing it for awhile I asked a relative if I could store it at a property that they owned, ( a small vacant horse farm that they had up for sale). When I went back for my truck a few weeks later I found that the property had been broken into. They didn't take anything (not much there to take) but they did smash holes in the walls with the fire extinguishers before discharging them into the pool and tossing every thing not nailed down into the deep end for good measure, oh and they tagged my truck.
If I would have caught them it would have been hard to restrain myself from beating them with the fire extinguishers and them in the pool. This was not a company truck, it was mine, and I used it for a side business. The graffiti came off with professional grade “Goof Off” but when the sun hit it you could see where it had been. It cost me time and money and aggravation to clean that crap off of my truck, so no I don't care much for illegal graffiti or it’s so called artists.
On a side note even if it had been a well done mural A ) They didn't have my permission to mess with my truck, B ) It kind of looks unprofessional to be driving with spray paint over my company name and phone number and C ) As the owner of the truck/property I should be the one who gets to decide on what I would like painted or not painted on it.
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
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Glass
location:
Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 91 on 4/6/2007 7:42 AM >
| | | | <=== Search button works no matter how many years you've been listening to the ranting.
Not everyone who paints is an artist, not everyone who photographs is a photographer, not ever tagger is a graffiti artist. To make a statement like "No graffiti is art at all and never!" is not something that I would like to have to prove.
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Azubi.UK
location:
UK / KSA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 92 on 4/6/2007 11:06 AM >
|  | | | It seems to be that people are happy with graffiti until it's thier own property being targetted. Then they wouldn't like it. I doubt anyone would like thier car/truck/house sprayed with utter bollocks. Art or not. Some on here might argue otherwise but I bet as soon as they see a big cock sprayed on the side of thier car, they will change thier mind.
Regardless of it being "art", it is still vandalism.
The 11th Commandment: Don't get caught! |
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 93 on 4/6/2007 3:09 PM >
| | | |
Posted by Deuterium
You've got temper issues. By your logic, I should pour paint stripper on your car. Why not? I think the appearance of peeling paint on your car has an artistic merit to it.
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You've got intelligence issues. I'm not angry. I'm just observing that you have the comprehension of an idiot. It's not an insult. It's just an observation of the facts displayed by your comments.
I never said that art trumps property rights. No one has. I have presented no argument for graffiti. All I have said is that if something is beautiful, it is artistic, no matter where it is. If you are stupid enough to think that means you should pour paint stripper on my car, then you, sir, are, without question, an idiot.
Posted by Azubi.UK
It seems to be that people are happy with graffiti until it's thier own property being targetted. Then they wouldn't like it. I doubt anyone would like thier car/truck/house sprayed with utter bollocks. Art or not. Some on here might argue otherwise but I bet as soon as they see a big cock sprayed on the side of thier car, they will change thier mind.
Regardless of it being "art", it is still vandalism.
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I have repeatedly said that graffiti is criminal. And there is no way a sane person could interpret anything that I have said to imply that a pair of balls spray painted on your car is art.
I started out by saying, "yes. it is vandalism." There is no argument about that. By definition, if it is graffiti, it is vandalism. And by definition, if it is beautiful, it is artistic, you ignorant, crazy person.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 94 on 4/6/2007 3:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by MutantMandias
I never said that art trumps property rights. No one has. I have presented no argument for graffiti. All I have said is that if something is beautiful, it is artistic, no matter where it is. If you are stupid enough to think that means you should pour paint stripper on my car, then you, sir, are, without
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What you THINK is beautiful =! It is beautiful.
The graffiti vandalism you find "beautiful" is no more of art than paint stripper aftermath on your car.
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 95 on 4/6/2007 4:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
What you THINK is beautiful =! It is beautiful.
The graffiti vandalism you find "beautiful" is no more of art than paint stripper aftermath on your car.
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Really? Who are you?
Which graffiti do I find beautiful? I'm awfully curious.
And, just so we're clear here.... I really want to understand, since I am so lucky to have discovered such a wise resource as you.
Anything that I THINK is beautiful, is, by definition, NOT beautiful. That's your point, right? That's your contribution?
If you're a troll, you're not a very good one.
[last edit 4/6/2007 4:14 PM by MutantMandias - edited 1 times]
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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Lord Awesome
location:
Valparaiso IN
Gender: Male
Arbiter
| |  | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 96 on 4/6/2007 4:38 PM >
| | | | I see that some idealism is blinding certain people to the matter at hand here. This has become more of a discussion of the integrity of artwork done on other people's property. Go ahead and say your wow that sucks, or fuck those assholes for doing this shit, but then actually look at it and consider the time and effort that went into some of these "works" Any expression of one's creativity or immagination is in some way an artform. So when someone sprays shit on the way it can be art. Throw ups and tags are generally shit and have very little artistic value. One cannot deny though, that some people put a good amount of effort into what they spray on a wall knowing they are breaking the law and knowing that it may be gone someday.
You cannot say that this behavior is in no way art and is never admirable. Push away your hate and idealism for a moment and actually look at something from an unbiased point of view.
P.S. I hate tagging, it pisses me off. Sometimes though I do see something and have to say wow. IT HAPPENS.
Hey yeah you, fat ass. Not interested. |
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KroniK
Gender: Male
In search of the perfect glass of kool-aid....Oh Yea!
| | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 97 on 4/6/2007 4:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Ah your right. The Phantom is a true artist, a graf genius.
It just took a few hundred times of seeing it to dawn on me.
One man's art is another's scribbled rants.
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the phantom has more respect in my book than you ever will have. you are the most opiniated son of bitch on this site, no matter how much mandias say vandalism is graffitti and graffitti is vandalism and graffitti is art, you still yap your fucking jaw. stop labeling people trolls, your the biggest fucking troll on this site.
brainwash= shoot your brains in a bathroom tub. |
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verloren
location:
Valparaiso, IN
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 98 on 4/6/2007 4:52 PM >
| | | | Wow. Everyone's a hardnose on this issue. Honestly, graffiti done on abandoned buildings and bridges doesn't hurt anyone. MOST graffiti artists have some tact regarding where they put their mark. Maybe I need to show a hierarchy to make this clear.
Artists->Vandals/Gang Members/Thugs
Okay, so what this means is an artist can be a vandal, gang member or thug, but a Vandal, Gang Member, or a thug does not count as an artist. Easy Concept. It's just the way the community is. There is a very clear distinction between the people who are trying to be artists and the people who want to fuck shit up. Motives are clearly different, and generally there's a level of honor among the artists that there isn't among the thugs.
I just figured I'd point this out, because a lot of people are confusing the artists with the vandals.
"I have a problem with clicking a 'submit' button." - A wise old man. |
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SarahMcConnell
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Philly, PA
Gender: Female
This is old school
| | | | Re: Graffiti
<Reply # 99 on 4/6/2007 5:02 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Ah your right. The Phantom is a true artist, a graf genius.
It just took a few hundred times of seeing it to dawn on me.
One man's art is another's scribbled rants.
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Do you know what an opinion is? Why can't you let people speak theirs without putting your two cents in every time? Everything you say is right and anyone [and I'm not speaking for anyone but myself and those who agree with me on this] who agrees with you can join your club but the rest of us who have a different opinion has to be belittled by you.
Why don't you just resign yourself from this forum? Or better yet, explain to me when I have started trouble? Don't respond to my question on here, PM me. If you want to respond to the rest of what I said knock yourself out. I just feel entitled to let everyone who reads this to know that I don't start shit and neither do my friends. I don't care if this or anything gets locked, I'll defend myself until I get kicked off this shit.
[last edit 4/6/2007 5:04 PM by SarahMcConnell - edited 1 times]
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