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 Mike Dijital
          
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
 |  |  | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 40 on 12/1/2004 2:40 AM >
|  | | | This is fucking crazy, all of this, At what point is it going to turn into , giving Av a retna scan and a blood sample to view the forum issues thread.
Take down the database, it was a bad idea then , its a bad idea now.
You want to see peoples pics, go to there site.
If they dont have a site, go to there photobucket account
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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HauntedPA
Location: Anywhere and Everywhere
Gender: Female
What do you mean the rum is gone?!
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 41 on 12/1/2004 2:41 AM >
| | | | The changes that have been made are futile. Why you ask? This is simple on a few different levels as being able to change the name and not have a street address do nothing at all.
For one people often list the name of a location in the history section of an entry, they also provide weblinks and media articles. The latter both are most assuredly going to give the name of the location. What's to stop someone from changing the name of a location back to the original? Or putting the name in the history section?
Good idea, but for it to be effective it must be a blanket policy and executed as such. This half-assed attempt won't do a damn thing.
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Roland
Location: Baltimore, MD
Gender: Male
Proud Leader of Brandishing a Firearm on the High Seas UE
| |  | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 42 on 12/1/2004 2:50 AM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
Guys...
PS: Fake names for sites ??? : PISH! If you want a fake name for security, use one - but an automatic manditory fake name removes any historical / scientific relevance the LDB might have.
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I agree. When I'm looking at pictures of a location, I like to know what and where it is, what it was used for, who lived/worked there, because that's part of what I like so much about exploring, the history behind the place. I mean, sure I like looking at random pics of abandoned buildings, but I like to know what the historical and cultural significance of the place is.
Buildings have two natural enemies- water, and bears. |
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Decoy
Location: Leslieville
Gender: Male
Oh I have slipped the bonds of earth...
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 43 on 12/1/2004 3:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Here's an idea then. The idea you propose is great for the LDB (hiding names and such)...members that have the trusted star should then be allowed to view the full details, including location.
To those who don't have the trusted star...well...I say - do something to get it!
Hopefully Av didn't delete the indexes of who had the trusted star, rather just deleted the star itself.
-Ex
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I'm in Exka's camp on this one. I miss the trusted star. Sure it was a bit elitist, but it was a good way to get a grasp at someones credentials, and moreover, would be a wonderful way to limit the viewers of all the info on the LDB.
It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pitty
To be lookin' at the board, not lookin' at the city. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| |  | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 44 on 12/1/2004 3:11 AM >
| | | | Here is what seems to happen every once in a while:
1. Something happens - like a building burning down, a woman losing her purse or a dog having a cough somewhere.
2. Some bright spark blames it on the LDB.
3. We have this discussion about how to make the world better by altering the LDB.
4. Lots of people who never even USE the LDB have oh so many clever, witty and helpful suggestions for the LDB that would be damn near impossible to implement, make it useless or just rape it in some other way. These normally range from abolishing the LDB to sending Av biometric information to use the LDB*.
5. A few (myself included) point out the LDB is the key reason for being a UER member and for donating in the first place. It's what makes UER great, and not another totally generic forum that could have been setup in phbb by anyone with a PC.
6. Eventually we agree to leave it alone.
Can we skip right to stage 6 please ?
My vote is simple - and unchanged from all the other times we have 'debabted' raping the LDB: Only make changes if there is a clear scientific, water tight reason to do so.
Note that I respect that this is Av's site and he can do what he likes but the above forms my personal opinion and also seems to form the basis of a common belief among us that use the LDB day in day out.
Chris...
*I have no probs. in mailing a 'sample' off to Canada... But .. yuck.
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 45 on 12/1/2004 3:20 AM >
| | | | Oh my god...
Look at what you did to poor old Whitby 'Closed Hospital'.
What a fvcking mess.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 46 on 12/1/2004 3:28 AM >
| | | | I just don't understant the pathological need to "show off" pictures and information about places you've been. Are we still pissing on lampposts here? Yes its nice to look at faraway locations, but I'd trade that a million times over to ensure that my local sites remain accessible and pristine for me and other local explorers. Call me crazy but for me the real thing takes precidence over virtual tours any day.
I'm not greedy. I'll show anyone the sites around here, provided they demonstrate their maturity, responsibility and dedication. I'm sad that things are this way, but they're this way for a reason. Action Squad doesn't hand out free maps to the Labyrinth, Jester doesn't give directions to avoid security at locations in his back yard. They do this not because they're selfish bastards, they do this because they care about their locations and don't want just any yahoo going there and wrecking things. Its called a conscience.
For those of you that doubt the folley of wide open access to LDBs here are some examples from UEA's history;
1) Vandalism by a bunch of underage vandals claiming to be "explorers" inside a giant bridge room leading to its being sealed off.
2) Massive vandalism of the abandonned YMCA during an illegal rave.
3) Mass arrests at the Molson's brewery, another rave hosted by the same company that ran the YMCA mess. I was personally threatened by said promoter after we shut them down. (The wanted posters were good for a laugh.)
4) Arson of two, perhaps more sites.
5) Damage to a large industrial site when "explorers" encountered a boarded off access point, leading to increased security.
These are just incidents that we're certain involved use of our LDB, there are almost certainly more. A sleazy real estate investor was trying to use us to get the scoop on locations to buy and demolish. We switched to fake names on the LDB which helped somewhat, but it doesn't take much more homework to figure out what/where something is. Thus the move towards eliminating the LDB alltogether.
Some members of the Sydney Cave Clan were forced to move to a "Black Book" LDB seperate from the group's larger LDB in order to protect new and high sensitivity sites due to the actions of a small number of explorers that compromised locations.
I would prefer a world where we can be totally open about this sort of thing. We got valuable historical information about sites from people when we listed real names, and I'm sure people found interesting things about sites that interested them by accidentally finding our site. Unfortunately other people started finding and using it for other purposes and we had to take a stance.
Yes this hurts armchair explorers. Sorry about that, but like its been said, if you're not putting in the effort you can't expect as much back. This isn't intended to punish armchair explorers, if that's your bag that's fine. Unfortunately along with innocent armchair explorers are looters, vandals, arsonists, cops with too much time on their hands, etc.
P.S.: I'd like to add that ultimately the responsibility for controlling site information lies not with UER moderators or administrators but with those who publish the information. No decree from above will be able to control the actions of individuals, nor should it. Everyone is free to make their choices, right or wrong, admin simply provides the tools, making it easier or more difficult to do certain things. I would simply like to raise awareness of the issues with those who are contributing (or choosing not to contribute) to the LDB. There is more at stake then at first appears.
[last edit 12/1/2004 3:38 AM by Kay O. Sweaver - edited 1 times]
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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Roland
Location: Baltimore, MD
Gender: Male
Proud Leader of Brandishing a Firearm on the High Seas UE
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 47 on 12/1/2004 3:30 AM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
*I have no probs. in mailing a 'sample' off to Canada... But .. yuck.
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I hope your talking about blood and not that other thing you're always talking about...
Buildings have two natural enemies- water, and bears. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 48 on 12/1/2004 3:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
1) Vandalism by a bunch of underage vandals claiming to be "explorers" inside a giant bridge room leading to its being sealed off.
2) Massive vandalism of the abandonned YMCA during an illegal rave.
3) Mass arrests at the Molson's brewery, another rave hosted by the same company that ran the YMCA mess. I was personally threatened by said promoter after we shut them down. (The wanted posters were good for a laugh.)
4) Arson of two, perhaps more sites.
5) Damage to a large industrial site when "explorers" encountered a boarded off access point, leading to increased security.
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You are right... None of this could have ever happened if the details were not available online!!
Based on this compelling evidence I would like to change my vote to 'close the LDB and disconnect the server'. Also, if it were possible - I would KILL everyone who has ever looked at the LDB. It's wisdom is too powerfull for mankind and must be protected!!
Chris...
PS: Ravers, Arsonists and NEDS don't need an LDB to fuck things up. Trust me.
The fuckers who torched HartWood and the Olympia wouldn't know what way a computer faces up - let alone have surfed an 'LDB' pulled out an address, multimapped it and then driven over to burn it down.
Steak knifes can be used to kill people as well as cut steak - shall we ban them ? Anything can be abused - and you can't always stop it.
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 49 on 12/1/2004 4:06 AM >
|  | | | Turbo, you act like the locations being listed on UEA as KAOS mentioned, had nothing to do with the events that happened. It was the direct cause, the ravers thought it was fucking grand that everything was layed out so neat and tidy for them with lots of details. It's fine to argue that you love the LDB, but there are real issues that go beyond that. Most UE'ers say how they love the places they go, so why is it such a hardship to make a little sacrifice to protect them ? Ignoring what happens repeatedly doesn't help.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Guy With Hat
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
Balconies shmalconies.
| |  | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 50 on 12/1/2004 4:52 AM >
| | | | Oh, okay, so there is a thread explaining what happened. Right.
You have my vote for the trusted star idea. In fact, a lot of these ideas are great. We could honestly just pick one at random.
It's kinda dull to see these generic names for locations, I wouldn't mind seeing the LDB privatized, if having it be public is an issue. And honestly, if you don't deserve the trusted star, you don't deserve the UDB, that's what I think of the issue right there. I'd be willing to work for the trust of other UEers.
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oCtAnE
Location: TORONTO, CANADA
Gender: Male
EXPLORER AT LARGE
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 51 on 12/1/2004 4:53 AM >
| | | | I strongly agree with Tubrozutek on this whole thing. Those people do what they do based on who they are, and most of them lack the intelligence to research future sites on a computer. All they do is pick up a spray can, join their buddies, and let the chemical imbalances in their brains help them draw nice, comforting graffiti.
Leave the LDB the way it is. It's unique, and is what brings us explorers here.
I also agree with Excalibur on the trusted star discussion. Bring them back.
-Octane
FUELED BY OCTANE. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 52 on 12/1/2004 5:04 AM >
| | | | Octane, as much as you can agree with Turbo that people that ruin sites don't go to the LDB, it's wrong. There is proof on numerous occasions, in numerous areas, that there are connections. In Calgary illegal ravers, and a drug dealer were using UEA's LDB. Resulting in the destruction of several sites, the drug dealer looking for skaught, and a *wanted poster* of KAOS made and put out on the streets so they could get ahold of him... All from the kinds of guys that Turbo says can't use a computer. Well they can, did, and do.
What this comes down to is whether or not you want to protect the places you love to go, or if you really don't care. It's about that simple.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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lsd
Location: g-spot.
Gender: Male
aight
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 53 on 12/1/2004 6:52 AM >
| | | | i think the DB was the greatest thing ever. like a ue bible. it us saved thousands of dollars on gas. now it's gone... just a word of warning... if i ever catch anyone setting fire, destroying, or otherwise fucking it up for the rest of us, they're going to get knocked down... i got to go count to ten im so mad.
"I ordered Jalapeno"
-=Ricky=- |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 54 on 12/1/2004 7:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by el nerdo
Unless you're surfing for free from a public terminal at the library, your internet access and your PC was paid somehow. Even if it was mommy and daddy (no, kaos, I'm not talking to you specifically, just generally) that paid for it. It still gets paid.
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Like I, KAOS is an adult who lives in his own house and has not lived with their parents for roughly a decade.
KAOS's knowledge of the Australia scene is due to his membership in the Sydney Caveclan. He lived there for a time. For those who do not know what the Caveclan is they need to gain some appreciation of the history of this hobby.
This entire debate is an EXACT duplicate of the issues that caused the implosion and rebirth of the UEA site earlier this year. So the UER community can ignore the lessons that were so hard learned by UEA community if they wish.
I did learn several things that K did not mention. One is that the cops are actually quite reasonable people. They do not have en enormous issue with what we do, they have bigger issue with how we do it. The issue here was that we had given too much info and it was endangering public safety. Illegal raves were being held and large scale arsons commited with info from our site. And even then we did not provide addresses.
We realized the site is there for entertainment. If we need info, we simply ask or figure it out on our own. If someone is to lazy to email someone they should not be out exploring.
Posted by lsd
i think the DB was the greatest thing ever. like a ue bible. it us saved thousands of dollars on gas. now it's gone... just a word of warning... if i ever catch anyone setting fire, destroying, or otherwise fucking it up for the rest of us, they're going to get knocked down... i got to go count to ten im so mad.
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You can still save your gas, simply get to know your other local explorers. We have weekly meets here for just that reason. We all share stories, notes and details. Some ppl only come once a month some ppl come every week some ppl come once every 6 months. Some weeks it has been 2 ppl, some weeks 20.
Posted by lsd
like a ue bible.
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Sigh, and think about all the bad things that have been done in the name of the bible.
We are not a religion, we do not need a bible.
[last edit 12/1/2004 7:33 AM by Skaught - edited 3 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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DjMalign
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Gender: Male
Sexy, sexy, sexy
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 55 on 12/1/2004 9:15 AM >
|  | | | I've heard all the arguments and I think that just listing the state or province and town is okay. I'm sorry to hear that shit went down in canada and that's unfortunate but crazy bums and drug addicts have been using abandonments for a long time and that's not going to change. But hey, its not my site so what do i know.
I hate all of you |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 56 on 12/1/2004 1:04 PM >
| | | | Some of you don't really understand - or are ignoring - what's really going to happen here.
The database is not going to be removed.
It is going to be retooled. Believing that it has nothing to do with increased vandalism in some sites is irrelevant - it has, and several of us have proof that it has. The appearance of UER graffiti on locations is proof enough for me.
Even if it - to date - hasn't attributed to the destruction of a locale, where is the harm in securing it to the point that it makes it more difficult for vandals to use it? Sure, places will still be vandalized and burned, but do we want to make it easier for them?
I reiterate - the DB is not going to be removed, so don't cry. It is going to be retooled, shuffled and laid back out fresh.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Decoy
Location: Leslieville
Gender: Male
Oh I have slipped the bonds of earth...
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 57 on 12/1/2004 1:16 PM >
| | | | I think maybe that the people who keep saying that the LDB is "gone" in their posts are speaking over-zealously... as in "freedom of speech is gone". It's not gone, it's changed and people are upset. I know I don't like the idea of the generalized names thing, but I understand it and support the decision to make the switch.
But you're right. This thread isn't for discussing wether or not the LDB is going anywhere. It's for coming up with a solution to the "what to change" problem. Could we please reserve this thread for discussions of how to retool the UEDB?
[last edit 12/1/2004 1:17 PM by Decoy - edited 1 times]
It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pitty
To be lookin' at the board, not lookin' at the city. |
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| | | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 58 on 12/1/2004 1:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crossfire
The apearance of UER graffiti on locations is proof enough for me.
Even if it - to date - hasn't attributed to the destruction of a locale, where is the harm in securing it to the point that it makes it more difficult for vandals to use it?
C.
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You mentioned the appearance of "UER" graffiti. Maybe that should tell you something; that it's not the LDB, it's the MEMBERS!
I think what should be retooled is the whole site in that case. Take down any forum discussion of locations as they are publically visible. I've noticed most people don't have the time or patience to look at the LDB, but they sure as hell will look at a forum about "security at Whitby Psych" (EX.).
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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xrahy
Noble Donor
| | Re: Location Database Changes
<Reply # 59 on 12/1/2004 1:18 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crossfire
The appearance of UER graffiti on locations is proof enough for me.
C.
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Ohhhh..that's fucking brilliant. Will the fucktard moronic a-hole(s) who did this please stand up to recieve your beatdown award.
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