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Explorer Zero
     
 |  |  | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 80 on 5/22/2006 4:14 AM >
|  | | | Posted by good rib cage
ok. Someone please answer me
How come this entire 4 page thread does not mention a HAMMER?!  The greatest blunt-force-trauma weapon ever!
And when cops stop you, they can't arrest you because it's not a 'weapon!'
(I do find it funny how in college dorms, you're not allowed to have brass knuckles but a hammer is fine...brass knuckles got nothing compared to the might of a hammer. Damn politics...)
Back to UE, a hammer is great for breaking into places so carrying one around has many uses.
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someone please ban him
[last edit 5/22/2006 4:14 AM by Explorer Zero - edited 1 times]
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FoxTwoFoxTwo
location:
Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
I'm an explorer who photographs...
| |  | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 81 on 5/22/2006 6:15 AM >
| | | | But you have to admit. He has a point with the hammer being awesome. I'm quite partial to the wrench myself.
But, the unwritten rule here (since you're new, I'll hold back my flames) is that breaking things to access a site is completely taboo. You stand a chance of being castrated with an electrified hair brush by the UER community if you do it.
PS - Breaking in is the pansy way. If you're really skilled, you can always find a way in without breaking anything.
Bringing exploration to Clarksville.
Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..." |
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lsd
location:
g-spot.
Gender: Male
aight
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 82 on 5/23/2006 3:17 AM >
| | | | Posted by FoxTwoFoxTwo
If the attacker is not satisfied, start a slow and "scared" speech like "Oh, please, don't hurt me." Except in the middle of your sentence(to take him or her by surprise), very quickly grab the gun in your closest hand and your attacker's forearm in the other, as soon as you have grabbed the gun, preferably not blocking the barrel, jerk it up and out of the way while tilting it back FORCEFULLY. While doing this, use your other hand and jerk his or her hand down and tilt it in the other direction. The gun will probably go off, continue to wrench the gun and arm like this until A ) The gun is in your possession, or B ) The attacker's trigger finger is broken and the gun is in your possession.
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dont forget to smash him/her in the face with the top of your head, stomp of his/her foot (small bones crack easily), spit and scream like a fucking maniac while youre doing all that (in order to disorient your adversary). Also, you should study Leet Kun Do.
peace.
"I ordered Jalapeno"
-=Ricky=- |
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good rib cage
location:
Chicago!
Gender: Male
Homeless people are cool
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 83 on 5/23/2006 6:25 AM >
| | | | wow...such a harsh reaction to my first post.
The only time I "broke into" a place was this house that was completely boarded up and we had to use the hammer to pry one board off
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Axe2006
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Gender: Male
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 84 on 5/23/2006 7:57 AM >
| | | | Posted by femaledragonx
it really is different in different states, and even in different areas within in each state. this question of weapons is a tough one. here is a story of something i experienced in NYC, where i live, that demonstrates just how widely these things vary (though the story might also demonstrate that the officer that we spoke to was incompetent)
i was with my landlord and we were walking our dogs in NYC. we passed his old neighbor, with whom he'd had many past disputes. as we crossed paths, this old neighbor kicked my landlord's dog and punched my landlord in the face twice. this all occurred within a block of the police precinct. so after the incident, we went directly to the precinct to file a report. the officer told us she couldn't help us. not even with me as a witness. she asked my landlord if he had any broken bones or had gone to the hospital for stitches. when he answered no, she said again that she could do nothing for us.
so, either she is a moron and we should have pushed the matter, or i might have to conclude that we are talking about a huge variance in the law and it's applications. or possible even both. it seems to depend on some pretty big, varying factors.
this week i was reading online about a gentleman in CT who defended himself with pepper spray and got a year in prison. not sure how valid the story was, but it was on a freedom of speech site.
so what do you do?
for me, if i am attacked, i am not waiting around to see how serious it gets and take a chance. if i perceive a real threat, i am coming up on someone full force, as fast as i can, and doing enough damage to allow me time to get away.
i worry about females exploring, as they are more likely to be attacked in many settings. i think anyone who goes into potentially dangerous environments should know a few tricks. if you can take a quick self defense class, or even get a book, you can learn some really good ways to break holds.
there are some great manuevers out there. i suggest learning some ways to:
-get out of a stranglehold if someone comes at you facing you in the front, or from behind
-flip someone who comes up behind you and grabs you around your waist and arms, or how to pry their thumb away from their fingers so you can pry their hands off of you and create a gap to get out of the hold
-how to flip someone if they grab your bag, or pull your bag to drag them closer while you strike a vulnerable spot on their body
-how to turn someone's wrists or elbows or shoulders so that their joints are locked (known as joint locks or Quin Na locks) and you can create large amounts of pain, but once released their body is not damaged in a way that you would be held liable in court
-how to kick. i mean really kick.
i find i am often not as free in my arms to respond since i am weighed down by my pack. if i am holding my camera, this adds to the loss of full leverage and range of movement. so when it comes down to it, if someone comes at me, they better be wearing a serious cup. i kick HARD.
and i advise any females who explore alone, or at all for that matter, spend a moment to familiarize themselves with the finer points/weaknesses in the male anatomy. actually, you can hurt a female with the same movement. women can get the wind knocked out of them when kicked in the pubic bone.
so, though i love weapons, and sure wish i could have them all on me, all of the time, it does seem risky if you explore in a lot of different states, regions, or even countries. better to know some quick moves that are less likely to the type of damage that could land you in jail if you hurt them badly and are in one of those regions that has funny laws.
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It's not the neccessary the cops's fault though, they have to follow "protocol" which is sometime very stupid.. For example, where I live, if You are involved in an MVC (motor vehicle collision) but nobody's injured and You can't tell if the damage is worth more than $1000, the cops don't respond! It doesn't matter if the other person is a crook or drunk.. nobody's injured and damage is under $1000 so cops don't respond. But our guys and gals (Fire/EMS) do respond if You call them, so that way they could probably get the cops to the scene, but other than that don't expect the cops to be of any assistance. Another thing where I live is the cops don't respond to a residential burglar alarm unless they have confirmation that a burglary has occured... that's right, You can be shot dead in Your house and nobody would know about it! And get this... if the cops DO cross the line and respond and disregard the protocol, they run the risk of getting fired and/or disciplinary action!
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 85 on 5/24/2006 6:07 AM >
| | | | If you are carrying anything remotely looking like a camera, you are subject to robbery. They arent going to come up and check out your camera, asses the price then rob you. They are going to snatch it and sell it for top PASO to someone.
Several people have been put in jail for useing Mace as a weapon. Instead of defense they have instigated conflict, used mace, then proceeded to beat there now disable victim.
As for the comment mace doesn't work. That is pepper spray which you can build a immunity to if you get hit say once a week. Even hardcore criminals rarely try to build resistance. It hurts to much. You can resist the pain if you know whats coming, but MACE which is a diffenet chemical composition, your body wont ever get use to. It's pretty disabling stuff.
Anything to do with self defense is tricky. You need to do research. It's like martial artists. Most learn to do XYZ in XYZ situation. However when you have a camera around your neck and someone is chokeing you with the strap, thats usually not taught. Many martial arts rely on footing etc, and dont work on ingenuity.
Shopping for the right defense information is just as vital as picking the right light for your safety. Many ignore it because they have a "never will happen to me" attitude.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 86 on 5/24/2006 7:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
If you are carrying anything remotely looking like a camera, you are subject to robbery. They arent going to come up and check out your camera, asses the price then rob you. They are going to snatch it and sell it for top PASO to someone.
Several people have been put in jail for useing Mace as a weapon. Instead of defense they have instigated conflict, used mace, then proceeded to beat there now disable victim.
As for the comment mace doesn't work. That is pepper spray which you can build a immunity to if you get hit say once a week. Even hardcore criminals rarely try to build resistance. It hurts to much. You can resist the pain if you know whats coming, but MACE which is a diffenet chemical composition, your body wont ever get use to. It's pretty disabling stuff.
Anything to do with self defense is tricky. You need to do research. It's like martial artists. Most learn to do XYZ in XYZ situation. However when you have a camera around your neck and someone is chokeing you with the strap, thats usually not taught. Many martial arts rely on footing etc, and dont work on ingenuity.
Shopping for the right defense information is just as vital as picking the right light for your safety. Many ignore it because they have a "never will happen to me" attitude.
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It's not that MACE doesn't work; it doesn't work predictably. Some individuals will not be stopped by it, it will really piss them off. The slightest bit that comes in contact with the MACE user's eyes and/or face can turn the tables against them. I've seen it, and the results are fast, and impressive.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 87 on 5/24/2006 7:49 AM >
| | | | A wise instructor said something very funny.
| If you shoot me with that 25 caliber I am going to come over and kick your ass. |
His point isnt that the round is weak, but that most people who shoot the gun don't know what they are doing. Same goes with MACE, or throwing people around.
If you dont know what you are doing the person will get pissed and charge you, or you may get hit in the face. MACE isn't perfect, but neither is going into your basement during a tornado, haveing a fire extinguisher handy. Most people can't put out a rather large fire with a 10 pound fire extinguisher, but I can due to knowledge and practice.
Like I have said several times before you need to know what your doing, and I'd rather have people carry something that may or may not work, then go in to a safety issue with a proverbial speedo on for protection.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 88 on 5/24/2006 5:02 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
A wise instructor said something very funny.
His point isnt that the round is weak, but that most people who shoot the gun don't know what they are doing. Same goes with MACE, or throwing people around.
If you dont know what you are doing the person will get pissed and charge you, or you may get hit in the face. MACE isn't perfect, but neither is going into your basement during a tornado, haveing a fire extinguisher handy. Most people can't put out a rather large fire with a 10 pound fire extinguisher, but I can due to knowledge and practice.
Like I have said several times before you need to know what your doing, and I'd rather have people carry something that may or may not work, then go in to a safety issue with a proverbial speedo on for protection.
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The problem with all chemical agent is controlling dispersion. If the wind's blowing the wrong way, if some deflects off a nearby object, you have big problems. You be better off, throwing your money one way, and running the other. In confined quarters I like an Airlite 4040 PD if my ass depends on it.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 89 on 5/24/2006 5:08 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
The problem with all chemical agent is controlling dispersion. If the wind's blowing the wrong way, if some deflects off a nearby object, you have big problems. You be better off, throwing your money one way, and running the other. In confined quarters I like an Airlite 4040 PD if my ass depends on it.
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Your better off doing that anyways, but its not always a good solution.
There are foaming agents, spray, fog etc. You can get stuff that works fine and wont come back to haunt you. Also they all have ranges. People who spray mace at a person 35 feet away arent doing things right. If you use mace you should at least hit your attacker pretty well, even if you do get a little yourself.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 90 on 5/24/2006 5:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
Your better off doing that anyways, but its not always a good solution.
There are foaming agents, spray, fog etc. You can get stuff that works fine and wont come back to haunt you. Also they all have ranges. People who spray mace at a person 35 feet away arent doing things right. If you use mace you should at least hit your attacker pretty well, even if you do get a little yourself.
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Ha! 35 feet? It's not a good idea to spray it at targets directly above you either. I saw that once, the user got a big surprise. He looked pretty silly; his "attacker" was a squirrel. The squirrel got away.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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FoxTwoFoxTwo
location:
Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
I'm an explorer who photographs...
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 91 on 5/24/2006 7:56 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Ha! 35 feet? It's not a good idea to spray it at targets directly above you either. I saw that once, the user got a big surprise. He looked pretty silly; his "attacker" was a squirrel. The squirrel got away.
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Hahaha I bet the squirrel had a good story to tell his buddies. You know, over a nice meal of nuts and pissing off humans.
Bringing exploration to Clarksville.
Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..." |
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DevilC
location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 92 on 7/4/2006 4:33 PM >
| | | | * Here I am at work, on the 4th of July, replying to a 2-month-old post.
* Mark seems to have been the voice of reason here . . . .
* Remember that you are TRESPASSING and BREAKING THE LETTER OF THE LAW. ARMED TRESPASS is different than being a stupid tourist wandering with a camera. Google your state's laws and understand what they mean.
* Most states dictate that if you start the fight YOU have the OBLIGATION TO FLEE. You cannot use deadly force if you started it.
* If you are on private property, back away from the confrontation - you are in the wrong here, regardless of what you are doing.
- The biggest danger facing the Urban Explorer is a slip or fall, not an angry hobo. A rabid dog is a bigger threat than a crack-head with a pistol.
- Mace/OC really does work well on the rabid dog - and is 50/50 on a rabid person.
- You can't just carry a weapon, you need to learn how to use it and be mentally prepared to do so. Plan ahead and rehearse what you would do.
- Whoever suggested that you carry katana escrima or nunchucks (and they meant it!) is either an imbecile or uninformed of the law. All states have laws forbidding carrying such weapons - MOST states limit blade length to 6". Blackjacks, ASPs, billyclubs, saps - ALL controlled items in most states.
- I am a combatives instructor - I do not carry a knife. Here is a piece of wisdom "The person that you need the knife to defeat can probably take it from you, the person you can defeat with the knife could probably be defeated with your bare hands."
- As far as guns go, wow. . . . MOST of you will be that 1 in 100. This is not a forum of tough guys. Please do not try to grab someone's gun point blank unless you are training regularly and know what the hell you are doing. Armed people are desperate people - he wants that crack fix much more than you want to keep your camera.
- Get a concealed pistol carry permit and get a pistol to carry (WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRESPASSING!) Become familiar with it, qualify with it, love it - relish the 2nd Amendment and the ability to defend yourself. (Sorry Canadian UER members!)
- Go train some sort of practical and useful hand to hand combat. UE participant or not, safety and security is your own responsibility.
No go explore more abandonment, take more pictures, and, train more JiuJitsu!
Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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FoxTwoFoxTwo
location:
Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
I'm an explorer who photographs...
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 93 on 7/5/2006 4:19 AM >
| | | | Posted by DevilC
No go explore more abandonment, take more pictures, and, train more JiuJitsu!
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Hell yeah.
JuJitsu all the way!
Bringing exploration to Clarksville.
Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..." |
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The_MorMor
location:
Sweden, Stockholm
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 94 on 7/5/2006 10:42 AM >
| | | | I have ben trainging Kung-Fu for thre years and one of them only Xanchu (Self defens).. SO i would rely on that if i ever ended up in a dangerous situation.
Another thing is that i carry this 1,5foot maglight when io ue.. And its pretty heavy and a pretty good weapon..
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DevilC
location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 95 on 7/5/2006 10:50 AM >
| | | | "Another thing is that i carry this 1,5foot maglight when io ue.. And its pretty heavy and a pretty good weapon. ."
MagLites are amazing weapons MorMor!
* The ubiquitous 2 or 4 D-cell MagLite is used by police officers far more than sidearms, mace, and, batons.
* Most violent encounters LE personnel face occur at night - what do you have in your hot hands at night? A flashlight!!
* One of the biggest complaints old-timers have about switching to small powerful lights is that you do not have an 8-pound battery-filled weapon immediately @ hand when sh*t goes down.
Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 96 on 7/5/2006 11:43 AM >
| | | | Personally I am a strong believer that there are dirty fighters and losers.. I have no shame when it comes to fighting. I'm not fighting to prove anything I fight to stop the other person from doing harm to me.. The longer I let the fight continues the larger chance there is for me to get hurt, so I will happily grab the 2X4 or pipe sittin on the ground, throw sand in the eyes whatever.. do whatever it takes to stop the attacker as quickly as possible and get the hell outa there.. Ideally I'd rather not kill anyone though, I carry a knife but it would take one VERY bad situation to start to think about stabbing someone, or for that matter even pulling it out..
In the end it's all about doing as much damage as quickly as possible to the attacker without going overboard, at least 'too much'..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 97 on 7/5/2006 11:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by DevilC
"Another thing is that i carry this 1,5foot maglight when io ue.. And its pretty heavy and a pretty good weapon. ."
MagLites are amazing weapons MorMor!
* The ubiquitous 2 or 4 D-cell MagLite is used by police officers far more than sidearms, mace, and, batons.
* Most violent encounters LE personnel face occur at night - what do you have in your hot hands at night? A flashlight!!
* One of the biggest complaints old-timers have about switching to small powerful lights is that you do not have an 8-pound battery-filled weapon immediately @ hand when sh*t goes down.
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the larger maglites are heavy enough to the point where you will no longer be charged with assault and with assault with a deadly weapon, same thing about steel toes I belive.. I in no means frown upon beating in some lowlifes head with a maglite but even the slightest bit of creativity in a cop can stack on the charges like no man..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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DevilC
location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 98 on 7/5/2006 12:42 PM >
| | | | FYI Pravus:
The grading of the offense always depends on the circumstances and the outcome.
* If you are defending yourself with a flashlight, that is not assault. You are defending yourself with what is at hand. Defense does not give you the right to maim, kill, nor disable someone. . . .just to get yourself away from the danger.
* If you attack someone with a flashlight (or keyboard, watermelon, 2x4, or bottle) then that object becomes an instrument of crime because attack was committed "intentionally or knowingly without legal justification." IL law does not specify "intentionally or negligently" 2 typical elements of the offense. Your state's law is pretty clear here.
Since you are from Chicago, IL, I pulled the statutes for your state:
Refer to:
1) Battery.
Illinois Criminal Code of 1961 - 720 ILCS 5, Section 12-3
(a) A person commits battery if he intentionally or knowingly without legal justification and by any means, (1) causes bodily harm to an individual or (2) makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with an individual.
(b) Sentence: Battery is a Class A misdemeanor.
(Source: P. A. 77-2638.)
2) Assault.
Illinois Criminal Code of 1961 - 720 ILCS 5, Section 12-1
(a) A person commits an assault when, without lawful authority, he engages in conduct which places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.
(b) Sentence. Assault is a Class C misdemeanor.
(Source: P.A. 88-558, eff. 1-1-95; 89-8, eff. 3-21-95.)
3) Aggravated assault.
Illinois Criminal Code of 1961 - 720 ILCS 5, Section 12-2
(a) A person commits an aggravated assault, when, in committing an assault, he:
(1) Uses a deadly weapon or any device manufactured and designed to be substantially similar in appearance to a firearm, other than by discharging a firearm in the direction of another person, a peace officer, a person summoned or directed by a peace officer, a correctional officer or a fireman or in the direction of a vehicle occupied by another person, a peace officer, a person summoned or directed by a peace officer, a correctional officer or a fireman while the officer or fireman is engaged in the execution of any of his official duties, or to prevent the officer or fireman from performing his official duties, or in retaliation for the officer or fireman performing his official duties;
(2) Is hooded, robed or masked in such manner as to conceal his identity or any device manufactured and designed to be substantially similar in appearance to a firearm;
----
(9) Or the individual assaulted is on or about a public way, public property, or public place of accommodation or amusement;
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truncated
4) Aggravated Battery.
Illinois Criminal Code of 1961 - 720 ILCS 5, Section 12-4
(a) A person who, in committing a battery, intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, or permanent disability or disfigurement commits aggravated battery.
(b) In committing a battery, a person commits aggravated battery if he or she:
(1) Uses a deadly weapon other than by the discharge of a firearm;
(2) Is hooded, robed or masked, in such manner as to conceal his identity;
Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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jasonbirder
| | Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 99 on 7/5/2006 4:07 PM >
| | | | Errr...I hate to rain on this rather gung-ho thread but surely I can't be the only one who thinks...If there looks like trouble...leg it!
I've never ever encountered a situation whilst exploring where there looked like any kind of trouble/physical violence..if there was my first reaction would be to run off...
No question...
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Ethics