Infiltration

CriminalSmile location: East Bay Gender: Male quaint cabin in scenic mountain surroundings \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 20 on 3/28/2006 2:50 AM >

	walk softly and carry a big maglite. out there in the world right now, someone is exploring...

FoxTwoFoxTwo

location:
Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male

I'm an explorer who photographs...

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 21 on 3/28/2006 6:13 AM >

Posted by CriminalSmile
walk softly and carry a big maglite.

Hahaha I rofled nicely on that. That was worth the resurrection.

My advice now: Carry a large spanner wrench (adjustability optional, it's a nice flashy touch) and if anyone stops you for it, your excuse is that your car screws up a lot.

Bringing exploration to Clarksville.

Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..."

maypost location: North, South, East, West, all around... then down to the underground Gender: Male Exploring if for n00bz0rz \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 22 on 3/28/2006 6:35 AM >

	I have only been in one situation where I had to defend myself on an exploration. The person who tried to rob me had a knife, not a gun. But I see that as the perp being more likely to use it as it is quiet. My wife and I were at an abandoned hospital in the shittiest part of west Baltimore. After about 3 hours of exploring we ran into a obvious heroin junkie. He pulled a knife and demanded our camera, wallet, and backpack. when he was about 10 feet away and getting closer, I blasted him in the face with pepper mase and he dropped to the ground like a sack of potatoes and we got the hell out of dodge. I always have a can of mace in my jacket pocket whenever I explore. It is you best chance to get away. Side note - This was the first my wife had ever been called a "cracker" by an African American. I was proud of her. It is almost like a right of passage Exploring is like tattoos... They stopped being cool in 2005

Duncantx location: Tulsa, OK Gender: Male \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 23 on 3/28/2006 5:01 PM >

	i just carry around some basic weapons like a K-Bar and a surefire light, but im 6'7" and 230, so most ppl dont mess w/ me in the first place. but once we were waiting on a friend at his houses so we wandered around in the woods behind his house, and then the neighbor who was huge came after us and threatened us w/ an aluminum bat. luckly, our friend is a black-belt, but he has never had to hurt anyone.

Geo \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 24 on 3/29/2006 12:44 AM >

	interesting thread, had to reply. the state i live in (NY) is NOT a "make my day state". In other words, if you attack me, i have to run first(make every possible attempt to get away)if i find myself unable to escape, then i can respond with appropriate force... i have no problem with it.(it even applies in your own house..for the most part) now for the IMHO part...please ppl i dont have any asbestos underwear, just an opinion. it is your right to defend yourself...i strongly advocate being prepared for it. Not just when UE'ing, but always. that being said.. RUN..run,run,run, even if you have gun, run,run,RUN!!!Before the shit starts, and until you get away or you get caught. At which point the situation will dictate the course of action. this next little bit is very sobering if you honestly asses your abilities. most attacks begin at less than 22ft(or 20ft...my poor old brain fails me)and your attacker will cover that distance in less than 1.5 seconds..you take a minimum of .4 seconds to start to react! you now have approx. 1 second to do something!This is where the "fight or flight" reaction comes in. your mental conditioning is going to determine what you do. ppl please condition yourselves to RUN,run,run! Can't stress it enough.(just keep thinkin,run,run,run) All the macho shit aside, hand to hand combat of any kind is strongly advised against, a last resort to be sure!(ask yourself when the last time you got punched in the face was? did the individual know how to hit? how did ya do with it?..get the point) Knives..forget em as self defense weapons. Practically useless. the ENTIRE point during an attack..is to stop your attacker NOW...not in 5mins when they bleed out(even shankin em in an artery gives em more than enough time to ruin your day)instead...run,run,run. mace..is a viable option, but be prepared, in some circumstances it may have no effect. or worse yet it may really piss off your attacker. Better yet run,run away. blunt force trauma rules the day!!! whether its your maglite,tripod,pipe,rock,medium sized spanner wrench ...185gr+p cor-bon powrball etc.You want to stop the attack now! not later! all of the previous except the last one require hand to hand...a very very violent and ugly thing. Better yet Run,Run,Run! The 185gr powrball is another matter entirely , and one that im not going to get into here. but i will say, it WILL certainly cause almost as many problems for you as it solves..perhaps more! best thing to do...here it comes...RUUNNNNNNN,run,run like your life depends on it...it might.heck,the statistics might even back me up on running away. DISCLAIMER: the previous section is just an opinion--except the part about how long it takes for an attacker to initiate an attack endnote: bright white light in the eyes has been proven to disorient--surefire highoutput selling point--and thats why the po-po always shine em right in your face.In our application it may provide enough time to...run,run,run [last edit 3/29/2006 5:08 PM by Geo - edited 1 times]

FoxTwoFoxTwo location: Clarksville, Tennessee Gender: Male I'm an explorer who photographs... \| \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 25 on 3/29/2006 2:13 AM >

	I completely agree with the above. Running is your safest bet... ALL the time! Run like a rabbit! Also, I'd like to add a medium sized spanner wrench to that list of blunt objects Bringing exploration to Clarksville. Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 \| RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK \| FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..."

Ruck

location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 26 on 3/30/2006 8:45 AM >

Looks like I dropped by just in time.

As has been said, running away is almost always the best answer. Some other things to consider:

1. Don't carry any weapon that escalates the situation more than you're willing to accept. If you're carrying a gun, know when to use it and how to use it. Don't pull it out unless you meet both of those requirements. The same goes for knives, batons, pepper spray, etc. If you don't feel comfortable with the possibility of using it, leave it at home.

2. Get training. This is a good idea regardless of whether or not you UE. If you're carrying a gun, get training. If you're carrying a knife, get training. Even Surefire offers defense classes for effectively utilizing a flashlight during combat. It's expensive, but so are hospital bills. So are funerals.

3. Tae Kwon Do when you were nine, Kung Fu when you were twelve, the Karate club in college--they're not enough. A lot of times they're even worse than no training at all because they emphasize unrealistic techniques and results. Get training in a realistic art.

4. Understand your risk level and what you're willing to endure. That's been a source of contention on threads like this here in the past. Some folks are fine being robbed. Some folks are fine being beaten. Some folks are fine being raped. Some folks apparently are willing to die without fighting for their lives. Determine what you're willing to endure before you enter a situation, how far you will let things go before you react.

5. Always be aware of your surroundings. 99% of the time this is all you need to be safe. If something doesn't look safe or feels wrong, don't do it. Stay away.

6. Don't underestimate what your assailant is willing to do to you. This is another source of contention on these types of threads. You might be fine with someone merely beating you, but what if that's not all they have planned? It's impossible to know your assailants intentions prior to the event, and to think otherwise is dangerous. That's another thing that gets tossed around on here: "He's just going to rob you, there's no reason to pull a knife or a gun or otherwise attempt to defend yourself." The thing is, you don't know if he's just going to rob you. It might stop there, or it might progress. Once again, how far are you willing to let things go?

7. The truth is, you can go a very long time, possibly forever, without being the victim of a violent crime. Then again, it wouldn't take a very large percentage for me to get serious about my personal security. Violent crime might only happen to 1 out of 100 people, but you know what? I don't want to be that 1 person.

i just carry around some basic weapons like a K-Bar and a surefire light, but im 6'7" and 230, so most ppl dont mess w/ me in the first place.

Good call on the Surefire. Love those things. A word of warning--and I'm sure you already know this, but for the sake of the other posters--about your K-Bar. Large knives, fixed blade or not, are regulated in many places, Texas included. If you're caught carrying a knife that size there will be questions and you will be detained. A pocket knife is one thing, but the authorities generally view large-bladed "combat" knives unfavorably when carried on someone's person.

The same thing can be said about carrying a collapsible baton. In some places they're as regulated as guns, and getting caught with them is no small matter. It's a good idea to read your state's laws regarding self defense and personal weapons. It's surprising what you find on the restricted/prohibited list.
[last edit 3/30/2006 8:49 AM by Ruck - edited 1 times]

"For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

Duncantx location: Tulsa, OK Gender: Male \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 27 on 3/30/2006 6:04 PM >

	well, it depends on the size, i carry it for rural hiking (like in the woods, wild boar are common out here.) but not for dense urban, ive got a small pocket knive for that.

Krawnik

location:
Kingston/Toronto
Gender: Male

Raiders of the Lost Architecture

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 28 on 3/30/2006 6:34 PM >

Posted by Zero Horizon
2. Get training. This is a good idea regardless of whether or not you UE. If you're carrying a gun, get training. If you're carrying a knife, get training. Even Surefire offers defense classes for effectively utilizing a flashlight during combat. It's expensive, but so are hospital bills. So are funerals.

3. Tae Kwon Do when you were nine, Kung Fu when you were twelve, the Karate club in college--they're not enough. A lot of times they're even worse than no training at all because they emphasize unrealistic techniques and results. Get training in a realistic art.

Hahaha, I took Ninjitsu. The simultaeneous most useful AND useless martial art for UE!

friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women.

RIP, Ninj.

DelbertGrady location: Northeast PA Gender: Male Just looking around... \| \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 29 on 3/30/2006 7:11 PM >

	Mosts of the places I go are pretty rural, so I've never been in a situation where self defense was really an issue. However, if the situation did arise, I would have to say that my mag light would be my only method of self defense. If the person is unarmed, then I would definitely fight back. There's probably a good 15-1700 bucks worth of equipment in my camera bag, and I wouldn't give it up that easily. If the person is armed though, it's definitely not worth my life. As far as I'm concerned, carrying a weapon is not an option. If a cop catches you with a knife or something, then you're in that much more trouble on top of the trespassing charges.

CriminalSmile

location:
East Bay
Gender: Male

quaint cabin in scenic mountain surroundings

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 30 on 3/30/2006 7:30 PM >

Posted by DelbertGrady
However, if the situation did arise, I would have to say that my mag light would be my only method of self defense.

Indeed, in my humble, uneducated opinion, a maglight is like having a baton in the guise of a flashlight. Those surefires look great and all, but having a light that fits in the palm of my hand, no matter how powerful it is or how long the battery lasts, would make me feel a lot more vulnerable.

I'm thinking Surefire's flashlight combat techniques involve something like "blind them and kick them in the nuts."

out there in the world right now, someone is exploring...

blackhawk This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Mission Control UER newbie \| \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 31 on 3/30/2006 8:04 PM >

	More time, and effort should be spent on not looking like a target, and evasion tactics rather than weapons. Avoid areas that are known to be high risk. You should do this even if your carrying a weapon. Do you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Do you need it to do so in that area? If your committing a crime, and packing, you deserve what you get, which might be a 5 year mandatory sentence. Even without a weapon , if hurt or kill someone in self defense you are in a lot of trouble. With a weapon there is additional liability, and yes the maglite may be considered one. Carrying a weapon could be consider premeditation with intent to commit serious bodily harm if you hurt someone. Your postings could be used against you; your not anonymous on the net. Trespassing is one thing, assault/manslaughter is much different, and much worse. Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

Krawnik location: Kingston/Toronto Gender: Male Raiders of the Lost Architecture \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 32 on 3/30/2006 8:51 PM >

	I'm a little fuzzy about my definitions, but I've heard that in Ontario, at least, pretty much anything that can be used as a weapon can be classified as a weapon. So, hitting a guy with a Maglite is assault with a weapon, even though you assaulted the guy with a flashlight, not a katana, or whatever. I could be wrong, or it could have changed, but I believe that's how it works in Ontario. So walloping a guy with your tripod could get you in just as much trouble as using a real baton or mace. friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women. RIP, Ninj.

blackhawk

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control

UER newbie

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 33 on 3/30/2006 9:16 PM >

Posted by Krawnik
I'm a little fuzzy about my definitions, but I've heard that in Ontario, at least, pretty much anything that can be used as a weapon can be classified as a weapon. So, hitting a guy with a Maglite is assault with a weapon, even though you assaulted the guy with a flashlight, not a katana, or whatever. I could be wrong, or it could have changed, but I believe that's how it works in Ontario. So walloping a guy with your tripod could get you in just as much trouble as using a real baton or mace.

A baton, and mace have one purpose. It's not camera related. Unless you intend to start a rumble why would you carry it? For a dog the tripod is enough.

Pic taking isn't suppose to be a armed recon or S&D mission.

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

Ruck

location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 34 on 3/30/2006 10:43 PM >

Posted by blackhawk
More time, and effort should be spent on not looking like a target, and evasion tactics rather than weapons.

This is correct, buy you must also consider the times when evasive tactics are not enough, and when "not looking like a target" doesn't work on the three crackheads intent on rolling you.

Even without a weapon , if hurt or kill someone in self defense you are in a lot of trouble.

This is not necessarily true. Physical self-defense should only occur as a last resort, after necessary conditions are met. Once those conditions are met, in most places, you have the right to defend yourself with as much force as the situation dictates (using a gun or a knife on a pregnant woman would be too much force, whereas if you're being assaulted by three grown men, obviously you're going to be allowed to use more force). Therefore, you should only use force when threatened with physical bodily harm, at which time you will also be satisfying the legal requirements for such action. Within reason, the result of that force is also authorized by law (you can't shoot someone for pushing you, but you would probably be legally justified in doing so if he threatened you with a knife). (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice--please consult your local and states laws on self-defense.)

Of course, you should also take into account that when trespassing, rules change. You're are already in the middle of commiting a crime, which will have a very strong bearing on any charges pressed against you.

At any rate, the best thing to do is, as previously mentioned by several people, run away when possible, avoid potential trouble areas, and above all, stay alert and be aware of your surroundings.

A baton, and mace have one purpose. It's not camera related. Unless you intend to start a rumble why would you carry it?

Because while I do not care to start a rumble, I can't be sure what anyone else I might encounter may have planned.

Pic taking isn't suppose to be a armed recon or S&D mission.

True, but unfortunately there are bad people out there who do bad things. A girl shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to car after dark. People of any color should be able to walk through any given neighborhood in the country without incident. You shouldn't have to worry about being carjacked at a redlight. But these things to happen. To ignore that is to set yourself up to be a victim.
[last edit 3/30/2006 10:46 PM by Ruck - edited 1 times]

"For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

blackhawk

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control

UER newbie

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 35 on 3/30/2006 11:22 PM >

Posted by Zero Horizon

This is correct, buy you must also consider the times when evasive tactics are not enough, and when "not looking like a target" doesn't work on the three crackheads intent on rolling you.

At that point even with gun you may not get out of it, unless your brandishing it. You let them get too close.

Posted by Zero Horizon
This is not necessarily true. Physical self-defense should only occur as a last resort, after necessary conditions are met. Once those conditions are met, in most places, you have the right to defend yourself with as much force as the situation dictates (using a gun or a knife on a pregnant woman would be too much force, whereas if you're being assaulted by three grown men, obviously you're going to be allowed to use more force). Therefore, you should only use force when threatened with physical bodily harm, at which time you will also be satisfying the legal requirements for such action. Within reason, the result of that force is also authorized by law (you can't shoot someone for pushing you, but you would probably be legally justified in doing so if he threatened you with a knife). (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice--please consult your local and states laws on self-defense.)

I believe in self-defense and have no problem using deadly force if made too. It's a whole lot easier, and cheaper to avoid using it at all reasonable costs. This means avoiding some areas.

Posted by Zero Horizon

True, but unfortunately there are bad people out there who do bad things. A girl shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to car after dark. People of any color should be able to walk through any given neighborhood in the country without incident. You shouldn't have to worry about being carjacked at a redlight. But these things to happen. To ignore that is to set yourself up to be a victim.

Life is not fair, and there are a places you shouldn't after dark even in a car. On foot in daylight same-same. As for carjacking, in that case the car is my primary weapon of choice. I will injure and/or kill a carjacker without a second thought with the car if need be to stop them. I always leave a car length in front at stops, and have an escape route. Even if it's a sidewalk. Bad neighborhoods at night and/or if the situation merits it I don't stop at stop signs, or lights. Doors locked. Allow no one to approach your driver door, window up or down. I've come within millimeters of running over crack dealers toes that got too close to my door.

A weapon will not protect you from your own foolishness, or lack of knowledge/common sense.

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

pyro location: Toronto Gender: Male \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 36 on 3/31/2006 12:18 AM >

	Carry a pocket full of glitter. When someone confronts you take a fist full of glitter and throw it in there face. Even if they beat you up they'll look awful funny with a face covered in glitter, because that shit is hard to get off. "[emo kids] are like homeless people with thier hand out only its pitty they want and not money." -boutdatlonestar

res_novae location: NoVA Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Self Defense and Such <Reply # 37 on 3/31/2006 2:58 AM >

	ROFL Pyro... IM just gonna stab them in the mouth with lipstick....

FoxTwoFoxTwo

location:
Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male

I'm an explorer who photographs...

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 38 on 3/31/2006 3:33 AM >

Posted by res_novae
ROFL Pyro...

IM just gonna stab them in the mouth with lipstick....

Why not slap them with a rubber chicken while you're at it.

seicer

location:
New York
Gender: Male

Re: Self Defense and Such
<Reply # 39 on 3/31/2006 3:35 AM >

Posted by FoxTwoFoxTwo
Why not slap them with a rubber chicken while you're at it.

Or something in rubber...

Abandoned

Infiltration Forums > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > Self Defense and Such (Viewed 6947 times)

Page: < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >