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UER Forum > Canada: Alberta / BC > Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels. (Viewed 1360420 times)
mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 180 on 10/16/2005 7:15 PM >
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"No no no no. Proof is solid evidence. Not some person saying tunnels 'do' exist. As I asked before, show ME your evidence. I know there are tunnels in Vic. But not the kind some people think are there. Unless anyone can prove me wrong, I will continue to be pessimistic on this one"

Sure, thats what everyone wants. I still stick by what I said, find it yourself.

Second, Do you think airplanes were invented by how objects work on the ground?

My point is skeptics and pessimists get no where.

Anyhow, We dont need weapons on the first trip, we should be able to find enough ancient esoteric insignia, (if were lucky) and other ancient history before we continue on.

Im a paranormal researcher. Im saying when we find the dark force tunnels, if your not scared enough we will need weapons, just in case.

These tunnels are everywhere not just in BC, and they might not even be in BC, we must investigate.

But this isnt your normal tunnels or buildings ill tell you that much. Anyhow, just my thoughts and research, I wont be going there anytime soon.

You need not worry about safety if you stay close to the main tunnels, but if anyone finds any ancient stuff or dark stuff, its best stay away, if not then you need weapons.

The reason why this BC interests me, because it coincides with other ongoing research, including tunnels, black magick, satanic ritual abuse, and these underground temples.

Now we have some leads in these abandoned buildings, it should be to hard for me to get more data when I investigate there.

Peace




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anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 181 on 10/16/2005 8:17 PM >
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Kubla, Tanuki......you guys can have this one on your team, ok? He's all yours.......




Viper 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 182 on 10/16/2005 9:07 PM >
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Posted by anvil
Kubla, Tanuki......you guys can have this one on your team, ok? He's all yours.......

Nuff said. I'll just sit back, wait for some photos, and be safe from the 'dark stuff'.






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mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 183 on 10/16/2005 9:14 PM >
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When you switch from abandoned buildings and steam tunnels to, esoteric black magick tunnels you step into my territory.

But anyways.. its all speculation.. hehe right?




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mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 184 on 10/16/2005 9:28 PM >
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"Interesting. I've heard there are massive caverns under the Empress that are filled with water...someone told me a very bizarre story about a submarine docked within the Inner Harbour, and the tunnel that leads to it starts at the Empress basement/cavern thingy."



Getting warmer...







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mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 185 on 10/16/2005 9:41 PM >
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Btw, what makes you think human used tunnels must be man made?

Look at the rock and cave structure of BC if you will...

http://www.cancaver.ca/docs/deepest.htm
http://www.cancaver.ca/docs/longest.htm




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kowalski 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 186 on 10/16/2005 9:45 PM >
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Is the submarine called Undersea Gardens? If so, I always loved their fake tide pools as a child.

I'm all about magic (though the 'k' now strikes me as overly pretentious), and all about making things larger with our engines imaginary, but I think it's a bit specious to come on here and conflate the imaginary with the real as if they are one and the same. There's nothing wrong with immersing yourself in the mythology of great labyrinths and occultisms, but if you want to share the underground landscape that does exist with other people you really should stay away from this intentional, self-aggrandizing obfuscation of the line between myth, wishful thinking and in-ground, structural reality.




KublaKhan 


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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 187 on 10/16/2005 10:29 PM >
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Posted by kowalski
Is the submarine called Undersea Gardens? If so, I always loved their fake tide pools as a child.

I'm all about magic (though the 'k' now strikes me as overly pretentious), and all about making things larger with our engines imaginary, but I think it's a bit specious to come on here and conflate the imaginary with the real as if they are one and the same. There's nothing wrong with immersing yourself in the mythology of great labyrinths and occultisms, but if you want to share the underground landscape that does exist with other people you really should stay away from this intentional, self-aggrandizing obfuscation of the line between myth, wishful thinking and in-ground, structural reality.


Wow, kowalski. Thems some pretty fancy speakin words.

I'm as interested in this occultism schtick as anyone else...and yes, the 'k' thing is a bit too Hollywood (even for me)...but we'll see where all this leads.







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mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 188 on 10/17/2005 9:31 PM >
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The K was added to differentiate from "card magic" or trick magic.

real magick is spelled magick. And ther are real dark force magicians, im just speaking from my research and beliefs, nothing is comfirmed..yet




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kowalski 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 189 on 10/17/2005 11:02 PM >
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Posted by mavrix
real magick...

Real magic is something that needs no differentiation from parlour tricks and empty cons, it's older than any hokum and needs no chincey extra letters attached to it to fit into the minds of those to whom it matters nor those to whom it may potentially, one day, matter.

It also needs none of the pumped up bullshit you're trying to sell us in this thread.




Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 190 on 10/18/2005 7:34 AM >
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Fact #1: My informant has a very concrete and specific rumor of a house where satanists are supposed to gather to do sacrifices. It includes the address of the house. This house is supposedly connected to a tunnel network underneath of it, where they go to do weird satanist things. The informant makes no claim as to the legitimacy of the rumor, but it is superficially accurate.

Fact #2: This house happens to be right on top of one of the larger storm drains in Victoria. I haven't been in this section of the tunnel yet.

Fact #3: A different informant, who has never heard this rumor, claims to have walked up this same tunnel many years ago. They accessed the tunnel through the outflow at low tide and walked up the tunnel quite a ways. They said they encountered a very frightened crazy person who pulled a gun on them. Which, of course, could be entirely fabricated. But again, it isn't a vague rumor, this person says it happened to them. They seemed of a relatively sane state of mind. And their description of the tunnel matches with reality. And they told me this story, complete with the location, without me ever mentioning that tunnel or the rumor associated with it.

Fact #4: Tonight is the Blood Moon (full moon in October). It's also a partial lunar eclipse. If satanic ritual sacrifices ever occur in Victoria, they occur tonight.

Result: Midnight tonight, I'm going in!

"Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell"




anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 191 on 10/18/2005 9:24 AM >
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Fact #1: My informant has a very concrete and specific rumor of a house where satanists are supposed to gather to do sacrifices. It includes the address of the house. What the hell is a "concrete and specific rumour" How can a rumour be concrete?


Wait a minute, here. The definition of "rumour" is: "A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth, or Unverified information received from another; hearsay."
"n : gossip (usually a mixture of truth and untruth) passed around by word of mouth" (emphases added)


Rumours, are by their very nature, unreliable. Oral histories are not the same thing as rumor or hearsay.
"Oral History: n. Historical information, usually tape-recorded or videotaped, obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. (emphases added)
An audiotape, videotape, or written account of such an interview or interviews."


Introducing rumours as evidence or facts is akin to sitting around the campfire treating urban legends about the murderer with the hook on the car's door handle as reliable, factual accounts of things that happened.


This house is supposedly connected to a tunnel network underneath of it, where they go to do weird satanist things. The informant makes no claim as to the legitimacy of the rumor, but it is superficially accurate. If the person does not claim that his story is true, then why do you choose to believe it?


Fact #3: A different informant, who has never heard this rumor, claims to have walked up this same tunnel many years ago. Claims? This is a "fact" in what way?Only in the sense that someone else told you something. I.e.: it is a fact that Bob told you a story. Undeniably and irrefutably so. What he told you (the accuracy, reliability and truth contained in his statements) is in no way factual.


They accessed the tunnel through the outflow at low tide and walked up the tunnel quite a ways. They said they encountered a very frightened crazy person who pulled a gun on them. Which, of course, could be entirely fabricated. But again, it isn't a vague rumor, this person says it happened to them. Which makes it not a vague rumour, but a specific one? Is it also a concrete (?????) one? Merely because this person said it happened to them? Sure easy to convince you.....


They seemed of a relatively sane state of mind. And their description of the tunnel matches with reality. Their description being that of a dark hole that runs horizontally beneath the surface of the earth, which matches the reality of a tunnel being a dark hole that runs horizontally beneath the surface of the earth?


And they told me this story, complete with the location, without me ever mentioning that tunnel or the rumor associated with it. Whew, thank god for that, cause it would have totally blown the concreteness of their rumour to bits, along with its specific nature.....leaving you with nothing but a wishy-washy vague rumour that would be totally untrustworthy, and not factual at all.....


So there we are, the "facts" have finally been revealed. We've been asking for 'em, and here they are. You've converted a born skeptic, who's now no longer from Missouri. Thanks a bunch........You guys deserve to have Mavrix and his magick.



[last edit 10/18/2005 9:27 AM by anvil - edited 2 times]

Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 192 on 10/18/2005 1:13 PM >
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Hey anvil, why don't you actually pay attention to what someone writes before you try to disagree with them? Otherwise you just end up sounding like a complete moron, instead of the intelligent person I'm sure you really are.

Posted by anvil
What the hell is a "concrete and specific rumour"


A vague rumor is something like:
"There's these satanists, they do stuff in Victoria, and there's tunnels and stuff"

A specific rumor is something like:
"Satanists get together at this house, at this exact address, under the full moon to do rituals, and this particular house has access to tunnels underneath it."

What's the difference? A specific rumor gives you a lot more information, and is a lot easier to check out. It's a lot more interesting.

Posted by anvil
Which makes it not a vague rumour, but a specific one? Is it also a concrete (?????) one? Merely because this person said it happened to them?


Yep. Someone claiming first hand experience of something is a lot more reliable than someone saying that they heard it somewhere. The difference between:
"I heard there's weird shit in those tunnels",
and:
"I walked into this tunnel, at XX specific location. It looked like XX. And then XX happened"
You even stressed the importance of first hand experience a couple lines up in your same post, so why is it so hard to understand here? It obviously doesn't mean it's true, I also said that very specifically, but it is a lot more worthwhile to check out.

Posted by anvil
Wait a minute, here. The definition of "rumour" is: "A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth, or Unverified information received from another; hearsay."
"n : gossip (usually a mixture of truth and untruth) passed around by word of mouth" (emphases added)


Thanks! I was unaware of what a rumor was. I thought it was a kind of small tropical fish.

Posted by anvil
Introducing rumours as evidence or facts...


I didn't introduce any rumors as facts. The existance of the rumors and stories is a fact, and this is specifically what I said. I very factually presented the evidence, and did not give any judgement as to the validity of the rumors. Reread my post. This is what I said:
Posted by Tanuki
The informant makes no claim as to the legitimacy of the rumor
...
Which, of course, could be entirely fabricated

I think I was being very clear that these were merely rumors/stories/claims. I said it many times.

Posted by anvil
If the person does not claim that his story is true, then why do you choose to believe it?


I never said I believed it. Why would you think that? My conclusion from those facts was not that the rumours and stories were true, but rather that I needed to go there and see. This is exactly what I said, and what I did.

Posted by anvil
Claims? This is a "fact" in what way?Only in the sense that someone else told you something. I.e.: it is a fact that Bob told you a story. Undeniably and irrefutably so. What he told you (the accuracy, reliability and truth contained in his statements) is in no way factual.


No shit. This is exactly what I said. Pay attention when you read. And it isn't just a fact, it is a very interesting fact. 'Bob' told me a first hand account that he vehemently claims is true.

Posted by anvil
...akin to sitting around the campfire...


Sitting around the campfire? I was crawling around in a tunnel looking for evidence for these rumours. You were sitting at your computer researching the definition of rumour and trying to come up with reasons why we shouldn't bother crawling around in the tunnels.

Now I'm cold and wet and going to bed, and I don't really feel like telling you about what I found. It was very cool, but obviously I'm still alive so no satanists caught me and sucked my blood out.




mavrix 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 193 on 10/18/2005 2:17 PM >
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I agree with you Tunaki, You hear what you hear, Note it, and try to collaborate it, or find connections. Skeptics, and the like will never go far because they cant open ther mind to other possibilities. Instead they just call it off as "rumor".

Never giving the person telling the story the benefit of the doubt.

Sideshow, Dont tell (me) about Magick. You know nothing, your one of the millions who make a big stink about the k added. For real occultists, this K is standard, and we laugh at those who think otherwise.

Look up "magic" in the dictionary for that words description. I dont do "magic"

Tanuki, dont go in when the risks are high. You dont know how many crazy people there are. There are countless murderers and other criminals. Also many satanists.

The question is, how many are crazed enough to be both and do a human sacrifice?

The answer is.. Enough.

I have friends in BC, who were born in cults. Trust me, if you go to deep in some tunnels, not the steam tunnels, you may not come back, and indeed many have not.





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kowalski 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 194 on 10/18/2005 3:23 PM >
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Oxford English Dictionary.

magic [Old French magique from late Latin magica from Greek magike use as a noun of magikos, from magos.]

1. The supposed art of influencing the course of events and of producing physical phenomena by the occult control of nature or of spirits; sorcery, witchcraft. Also, the practice of this art. b A magical procedure or rite; a magical object, a charm.

2. An inexplicable and remarkable influence producing surprising results. Also, an enchanting quality; exceptional skill or talent.

3. The art of producing (by sleight of hand, optical illusion, etc.) apparently inexplicable phenomena; conjuring.

I know quite well what I'm talking about, I also know any number of more committed participants than myself who have no interest in adding the 'k' or in referring to themselves as "occultists" for that matter. This isn't a big stink, this is just me saying that nothing you've said here has impressed me, including your pretentious spelling. If working with "black magic tunnels" in your personal practice is effective for you, then all power to you, but don't conflate that with the reality you share socially with the people on this board. Spiders ride on my shoulders and help me delay or conjure public transit buses as I need them, but I'm not on a transit forum (goodness yes, they do exist) talking about how schedules are worthless because time probability is thoroughly hackable.

I'd love to get back to Victoria this year and see the tunnels that Tanuki has found. But not because I think I'm the sordid love child of Indiana Jones, Van Helsing and Aleister Crowley. And even if I have magical or "occultist" reasons for wanting to get down there or perceptions that I will take back with me from these places, I am not about to willfully have them become an obscuring fog over the whole endeavour.



[last edit 10/18/2005 6:10 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]

KublaKhan 


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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 195 on 10/18/2005 5:34 PM >
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Jesus Christ on a fucking stick...this pissing contest re: definition viz. MAGIC/MAGIK/WHATEVER-GO-BOO-IN-THE-DARK-BLAH-BLAH is getting tedious.

Let's cut the shit on this whole matter and simply agree that there is some pretty substantial evidence (look that one up, Anvil) to support the rumour/claim of tunnels in Victoria.

Tanuki has done his homework. He knows the storm drains in this city. He is a diligent researcher, and he isn't likely to get himself balled into a knot over claims of evil stink-hell-hole-sewer-ditch-pig ritual occult bullshit (insert your favourite dismissive term here).

It happens that the house in question is located directly over one of the city's main storm drains.

It also happens that this house is located within spitting distance of the site where a child vanished ('vapourized' is more accurate, or even 'dematerialized'...gone without a trace) many years ago.

Which isn't to suggest that these are necessarily related. These points simple add substance to the rumours, and if you'd care to check out the specifics on the disappearance, and do a bit of cross-referencing, you may come to a similar conclusion: odd shit goes down in Victoria, and tunnel networks (stories) play a major role in these stories.







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anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 196 on 10/18/2005 7:14 PM >
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Tanuki - what did you find on your Blood Moon expedition? Rumours verified? Were they true?




Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 197 on 10/19/2005 2:57 AM >
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What I found was a really cool tunnel. By far my coolest find in Victoria. But no concrete evidence of satanists. Yet...

I was mistaken about the exact locations. I thought the house was directly above the tunnel, but when I checked it out it turns out that I was half a block off. Which is still pretty damn close, but if the house was to connect to this tunnel, it would require a small side tunnel (less than 50m). Although how things are situated, you could probably covertly access the tunnel from the house by a short jaunt through the back alley. But that's not as cool as it actually connecting to the house.

The tunnel itself is pretty amazing. If I was going to hang out in a tunnel in Victoria, this is the tunnel that I'd pick. Difficult to access, but amazing once you are in there. It's very old brick, big enough to walk in without bending over, winding sinuously underneath Victoria. Completely overgrown with roots that are exploding out of holes. Weird fungi everywhere. Waterfalls, stalactites, steps hewn out of solid granite, crazy looking little brick rooms off of the main tunnel...

There are many places where there obviously was another chamber, but it has been sealed off with concrete, brick, and/or steel. I need to explore it some more.

At the point in the tunnel where a side tunnel coming from the house in question would meet the main tunnel, there is a space where the old brick wall is missing and replaced with concrete. Which could mean that there was at one time a side tunnel there. Or there are many other more mundane explanations.

Now, I am not going to announce the address of this house over the internet. Given that it is just a rumor, that wouldn't be very nice to the residents of the house. I'm also not going to announce the locations of tunnels and access points over the internet. I'm happy with the fact that none of these tunnels are locked and/or full of obnoxious kids. However, if anyone wants to meet with me in person, I would be happy to take you into some of the tunnels. Which should be good enough, I don't know why anyone would care about the locations of these things unless they were actually in Victoria and able to go see them.




Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 198 on 10/19/2005 3:04 AM >
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Posted by kowalski
I'd love to get back to Victoria this year and see the tunnels that Tanuki has found.


Cool! Let me know when you're in town. I travel a bit too, may end up in Toronto at some point.

Posted by KublaKhan
It also happens that this house is located within spitting distance of the site where a child vanished ('vapourized' is more accurate, or even 'dematerialized'...gone without a trace) many years ago.


Interesting! I had forgotten about that, but now it's ringing a bell. We'll have to sit down with my maps and see what access points are close to the point of disappearance.




KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 199 on 10/19/2005 3:30 AM >
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Nice work, Tanuki.

Now, let's get some pics.




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