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UER Forum > Canada: Alberta / BC > Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels. (Viewed 1462866 times)
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 140 on 9/21/2005 10:56 PM >
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She's an 18 year old meth addict, and she's covered in scabs, and her teeth are brown, and she cried a couple of times, and she lost her dog, and she's been panhandling outside a local Starbucks, but no one has given her any money.

She got high in a tunnel near a very expensive restaurant near Chinatown in Victoria.

She doesn't remember how she got in, or why they decided to go there instead of their usual place, but it seemed like a good idea at the time and now she can't shake the sound of screaming babies from her head, and she's pretty sure that if you go to this place at night, you can find your way throughout the whole of Chinatown and even into Oldtown, because the guy she was with that night knows everything about the city, but he took off after a bench warrant was issued, and she thinks he has her dog.

She was there three days ago. It's a manhole in the sidewalk, and it's under a streetlamp, so already I think that maybe she's suffering some psychosis, because I know that the restaurant is usually quite busy, so people would have watched her go into the sidewalk with the guy and maybe her dog. It wouldn't have looked right, from their perspective, this young woman obviously in distress, and her dog and that guy...why on Earth would they go into a manhole, anyway?

But she looked me in the eye and begged me to believe her.

And then she said, "There's a cult in this city that kills people."

So I checked out this manhole, and there's a bit of wear in the concrete around the rim and it looks like maybe the manhole cover was popped off the hole and dragged to one side. And when I press my ear to the little holes, I can hear rushing water. I could also hear a high-pitched whine and what sounded like a barking dog.

I gave her five bucks because she wanted a coffee and a bagel, and she promised to draw me a map, even though she said she couldn't remember too many details, except for the sound of screaming and a dull yellow light coming from around a corner in this tunnel and there were moving shadows and she thought that she saw someone looking around a corner at them as they got high.

I gave her a disposable camera and asked her to take some pictures of this place, and that I'll give her $50 if she brings the camera back in good shape.

"I won't lose it," she said. "I'll take some pictures for you. Promise?"

"Fifty dollars for the camera after all the pictures have been shot. No fucking around. I want to see that tunnel."

"Promise."









"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 141 on 9/22/2005 12:01 AM >
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At our garage sale, two men arrived, one dressed in a brown suit jacket, with a salt and pepper hair,a large mustache and big, red, watery puppy dog eyes. He asked if I had any guns for sale. I was a bit taken aback, but I replied that I didn't. He then asked if I had any knives for sale. "A sale!" I thought, and found several large hunting knives that I had for sale. It wasn't until the puppy-eyed man had them in his hands, that the other man spoke up, and told him that the institution wouldn't allow him to take the knives back inside with him, that he couldn't buy them. Watery-eyes was excited by the prospect of owning knives again, and made me promise that I'd hold onto the knives until the next day, when he would return. I bid them farewell, and put the knives away in a box to be packed. He never returned.

Another man visited our little sale that day. An older fellow, dressed in a blue postal uniform jacket, with a matching hat. He'd looked around quietly, inspecting our outbound possessions with care, then, he left, without purchasing a single item. The next day, while I was organizing things outside, he returned. Dressed again in his by-now trademark postal worker outfit, he struck up a conversation with me. "Bill's the name," he proclaimed. We talked then, for some time, about his career, his children, and life in general. I told him of our impending move north, out of Victoria. He told me that he had worked for more than 20 years for the Post Office. I told him that our house was to be demolished, to make room for a sewage pumping station. This obviously aroused his interest, and he asked to see the interior. I said that he could, and we went inside, so that he might have a look. He remarked on how sad it was that the house was to be destroyed, and I agreed. He then motioned for me to come closer, so that he could tell me something that must have been very important, and at the same time something that was for my ears only. I leaned in. He cupped his hand over his mouth - to prevent anyone from reading his lips, and said "I'm Jesus Christ." I drew back, a little confused. Again, he beckoned me closer, and repeated his statement.
"I'm Jesus, and I've come back. Judgement day is near. And they won't believe me." I replied that he very well could be the son of God. And then did my best to extricate myself from the situation - politely. He came back several times after that, repeating his claim again and again, until one of the EMI security guards came over and took him back to the institution.


By the way, we lived across the street from Eric Martin Pavilion, the Psychiatric wing of the Jubilee hospital. I'm sure that either one of these individuals was firmly convinced of their own delusions, and would have promised whatever I asked them to, just like the meth addict in the previous post.

What's your point, KublaKhan?




Viper 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 142 on 9/22/2005 12:45 AM >
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Posted by KublaKhan
She doesn't remember how she got in

Seems to be a trend, huh?




Earth, the world's most dangerous planet!

"The will to do, the soul to dare." -Sir Walter Scott
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 190 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 143 on 9/22/2005 7:45 PM >
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Posted by anvil
I leaned in. He cupped his hand over his mouth - to prevent anyone from reading his lips, and said "I'm Jesus Christ." I drew back, a little confused. Again, he beckoned me closer, and repeated his statement.
"I'm Jesus, and I've come back. Judgement day is near. And they won't believe me."

I replied that he very well could be the son of God.

And then did my best to extricate myself from the situation - politely.

He came back several times after that, repeating his claim again and again, until one of the EMI security guards came over and took him back to the institution.


By the way, we lived across the street from Eric Martin Pavilion, the Psychiatric wing of the Jubilee hospital.

I'm sure that either one of these individuals was firmly convinced of their own delusions, and would have promised whatever I asked them to, just like the meth addict in the previous post.

What's your point, KublaKhan?


Frankly, I couldn't care less whether the person telling me the story is a resident of a psychiatric institution. I once had a conversation with a woman who claimed that she lived with an enormous dog who spoke Portugese. Did I dismiss her? No. I listened, and I was interested, and I wasn't condescending, because I had the feeling that everybody she spoke with got their faces all twisted up into an incredulous frown and didn't really give her the time of day, or even show any sign of compassion for her.

We're ALL a little fucked up (yourself being the obvious exception), and we ALL have some weird little tale that, were we to tell it to the first stranger on the bus, we'd be mocked etc. etc. etc.

You being the obvious exception.

Don't ask me about my own weird little tale. I couldn't bear being dismissed by you.

My methhead friend simply wanted someone to listen to her. She had an interesting little story to tell me, and it was relevant to the question I asked her, and if she made the whole godamned thing up on the spot, well good for her. She has an active imagination.

Few do these days.





"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Jester 


Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
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Always just out of sight...

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 144 on 9/22/2005 7:52 PM >
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I think the moral to what everyone except Kubla is saying is, stories are fine, but the majority of us here are interested in facts about a place, and proof it exists, not a bunch of unsubstantiated claims.




It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 190 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 145 on 9/22/2005 8:02 PM >
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Posted by Jester
I think the moral to what everyone except Kubla is saying is, stories are fine, but the majority of us here are interested in facts about a place, and proof it exists, not a bunch of unsubstantiated claims.


Thanks for clarifying this for me, Jester. It's eluded me thus far, this 'PROOF and FACT as measures of certainty' thing.

Does evidence count for anything around here? Anecdotal as it may be, it's my point of first contact, and I've gathered some pretty interesting details over the months, none of which actually PROVE anything, but rather support the claim of underground tunnels, etc.

S'cuze me a moment, it appears there's a large silver obelisk hovering over my house. I want to check it out.

...

...

...




[last edit 9/22/2005 8:03 PM by KublaKhan - edited 1 times]

"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Jester 


Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
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Always just out of sight...

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 146 on 9/22/2005 8:09 PM >
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Stories do not equal evidence of these places. So many stories, one after another and yet not one that can get you near to a picture of the places ?

When I see pictures or you can even say yes I've been in the tunnels and can show you, then I'll change my belief from "it's a bunch of stories" to "it's a weel kept secret".




It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
surekill 


Location: Victoria, BC.
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I like tacos

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 147 on 9/25/2005 3:56 AM >
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These secret tunnels under downtown are really cool sounding. We need to figure out how to get into them. I think we need a team because most of the possible entrance areas seem to be inhabited with crazy meth addicted junkies. I dont really want to poke around them at night!




ENKI 


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NewWestminster B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 148 on 9/25/2005 7:31 AM >
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Good Topics and storys. I just wanted to quickly tell you all about NewWestminster's Tunnels.I used to work in a restaurant in downtown Quay area. The building its in was a Main train station. There is a secret tunnel that runs from there 3 blocks underground to the Post office. Mail was shipped by train and delivered via the tunnel. The tunnel also connects to the old NewWest police dept.Now i work in NewWestminsters oldest hotel. It too has a tunnel that runs to the old train station.Probably some sort of celerbity escape route.The train station Has the KEG restaurant in it.Anyways thought you would find the story interesting.




KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 149 on 9/25/2005 6:09 PM >
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Posted by ENKI
Good Topics and storys. I just wanted to quickly tell you all about NewWestminster's Tunnels.I used to work in a restaurant in downtown Quay area. The building its in was a Main train station. There is a secret tunnel that runs from there 3 blocks underground to the Post office. Mail was shipped by train and delivered via the tunnel. The tunnel also connects to the old NewWest police dept.Now i work in NewWestminsters oldest hotel. It too has a tunnel that runs to the old train station.Probably some sort of celerbity escape route.The train station Has the KEG restaurant in it.Anyways thought you would find the story interesting.



I do. Thanks for sharing your story. Can you get some pics of these tunnels?




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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surekill 


Location: Victoria, BC.
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I like tacos

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 150 on 9/29/2005 7:45 AM >
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Tanuki 


Location: Victoria, BC
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 151 on 10/9/2005 11:49 AM >
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Hmm... I haven't checked this site for a while and there are lots of interesting posts.

As for the idea that there can't be any tunnels because Victoria is on bedrock and it would be too hard to dig them, that doesn't work. Victoria is on bedrock, but it is (was) also incredibly hilly. They filled in all dips to make everything nice and level for everyone to build there fancy buildings on. As a result entire parts of the city are hollow. The area under the Empress Hotel used to be one of the prime clam digging beaches around. Now it is many meters above sea level. The same goes for Johnson St., areas in Fernwood, around Cook St, and many other places.

There are tunnels. I've so far been in six different tunnel networks under Victoria. Most of them are currently being used as storm drains, although some appear completely abandoned and unused. Some look relatively new and concrete, others are obviously very old and brick. I think it is entirely possible that the old brick tunnels, although they are currently being used as storm drains, were possibly in the past used for other purposes.

No, I don't have pictures of them. I don't have a camera, and I don't want one. If you want pictures, come with me and take them yourself.

Finding the tunnels is pretty easy. There are maps of the stormdrains. Unfortunately the maps are very inaccurate, no one goes down there so there is no reason to keep them accurate. However, if you combine the maps with a little common sense they are pretty useful. By looking at old topographical maps I can see where there used to be a ravine 150 years ago but is no longer. These are good places to look for big tunnels. And the different styles of manhole covers are indicative of different things underneath, and although it varies between different municipalities, if you figure out this trend you can just bike around and look for the right manholes to pop. Although I recommend getting a manhole key (or a small crowbar with the end filed down), they can be hard on the fingers.

If you are looking for info on the Bowker Creek tunnel, that is all publicly available. There is a society dedicated to protecting the creek (although I'm not sure what they are protecting, if it is possible to kill a creek I'm certain Bowker was murdered long ago), and they have a map on their website of all the places the creek and its tributaries go underground.

So far I haven't found any satanic cults, pagan idols, vampires, mole people, or opium smugglers. I'll keep looking.

So the reason I'm elucidating some of these elusive tunnel mysteries is that I have several places I want to explore that require a partner. For some reason I haven't had much luck with that. People seem all excited until they discover that the activities will involve large numbers of spiders and centipedes, cramped spaces, and the liberal use of a crowbar. But several of the people who posted seem into exploring, if you are interested get back to me and we can check out some truly interesting places.

As for all the oral histories of the tunnels, I agree that they are pretty cool. My only comment is that meth heads give really bad directions. "There's this place. By this door. And there's this alley thing. Or maybe it isn't a door, maybe it's just some wood. Or it's a dead end street. There's a tunnel there. Or maybe it's a door" I've found the street folk to be much more useful for informing me as to the schedules of the various people who could be upset by my exploring activities. You know, the sorts that wear uniforms and yell at you if you do something that they don't think is normal. Street people are really good at avoiding them.




anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 152 on 10/9/2005 7:23 PM >
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Ohhhh, I see. "secret tunnels" = any hole in the ground, no matter how pedestrian. Stormdrains. Culverts under a road. Sewer lines. The underground routing of a creek. Well, I take it all back, all the skepticism, etc. The tunnels DO exist. And I don't need to follow any crack or meth addict's directions to find them. I lived beside Bowker Creek, right where it went under Foul Bay Avenue. I could even get a picture of it. In fact, I think the CRD might even have maps, video and a documented history of the Bowker Creek culverts. I'm sure they and/or the City have the same kind of documentation for the storm drains and sewer networks under Victoria as well.

My mistake - I thought the "secret tunnels" referred to in this thread title were actually secret.....

Actually, if we're talking about stormdrains, culverts and the like, could we change the title of this thread, and take out the word "secret"?




Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 153 on 10/10/2005 8:14 AM >
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OK, I know my previous post was kind of long, but that's because I was giving a fair bit of information, if you are interested in the tunnels you might try actually reading my post before responding...

No, the CRD doesn't have maps of Bowker Creek. Like I said in my previous post, they leave that to the non-profit society. They also don't have maps of the storm drains either, that you have to look in city archives for, and Victoria, Oak Bay, and Saanich are all kept separate.

I agree that the short little culvert under Foul Bay Rd that you are talking about isn't particularly interesting. But I personally find the miles of 100+ year old brick tunnels under Victoria to be quite interesting. You might not. Your loss. There's already a picture of one of them posted on this thread. It's obviously not a culvert.

It does seem that most of the tunnels under Victoria (at least the one's that I've found) are currently being used for storm water drainage. I fail to see how this makes them less interesting. If you were going to construct a stormwater drainage system, why would you build new tunnels if there were already ones there? It seems most likely that if there really were tunnels being used to smuggle opium, people, or whatever else, many of them would currently be part of the stormwater drainage system.

The existance of these tunnels under Victoria doesn't prove any of the stories about them. But it certainly doesn't disprove the stories either.

If for some reason you think that stormwater = uninteresting, I have found tunnels that are not currently being used for storm water, and aren't on any stormwater map as far back as the 1960's. I also found stormwater tunnels that have a construction that show that they weren't always used only for stormwater. And many of the tunnels don't match with the city blueprints.

Regardless of whether the stories actually apply to the tunnels, the stories are very interesting. And the miles and miles of very old, brick tunnels that spread out under the city are pretty interesting as well, even if there aren't goat sacrifices or opium dens down there. But the stories might apply to the tunnels, I haven't found any evidence against it...





anvil 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 154 on 10/10/2005 9:06 AM >
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I am interested in the things that lie under Victoria, and I did read your post before I responded. I didn't say they were less interesting or not interesting, did I? I merely suggested that if we were discussing known, documented subterranean workings, then it was inappropriate to title the thread "secret." Makes sense, doesn't it?

As for the CRD having maps of the Bowker Creek system - they most certainly do. The Non-Profit "Friends of Bowker Creek" are involved, in an advisory capacity, in what happens with the creek, but the CRD and municipalities must build and maintain the water, sewer and road systems that weave in, around, over and under the creek. The non-profit society certainly isn't responsible for maintaining the flumes, culverts, etc.

"The existance of these tunnels under Victoria doesn't prove any of the stories about them. But it certainly doesn't disprove the stories either." Right. So so this does nothing to answer the question, then, does it....




Tanuki 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 155 on 10/10/2005 10:20 PM >
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If you do have any luck getting maps from the CRD, let me know. Even having friends of mine who work for them discretely enquire hasn't turned anything up. The information still might exist, and I would be very interested in getting it if it does.

I really don't think they do any maintainance of the tunnels. The Bowker Creek tunnel has frequent visitors (but by other explorers, not city workers), but I have never seen any sign of human activity in any of the other tunnels I have visited. It has always been very apparent that they haven't been visited by another human for many, many years. And why would they need maintainance? They are brick, and large enough to never get plugged.

As for them being secret, the fact that I discover them by digging through city archives to find incomplete blueprints, and fill in the rest with deduction based on old topographical maps, this to me doesn't make them less secret than discovering them by decyphering the ramblings of meth heads. I'm just being more systematic, and more successful. I am really doubtful that there is any city worker that knows where most of these tunnels are.

And I disagree that these tunnels are irrelevant to the stories.

FACT #1: There are lots of very interesting stories about tunnels under Victoria. KublaKhan has posted many of them.

FACT #2: There are lots of interesting tunnels under Victoria. I've been in many of them. They spread out under the entire city, and I can get just about anywhere in Victoria underground.

Now, these two facts may be unrelated. But I don't think it's that big of a stretch to hypothesize that there may be some sort of connection. The fact that there are these tunnels does lend some sort of credability to the stories.




Viper 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 156 on 10/11/2005 7:40 AM >
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Vote we change this thread name to Tanuki vs anvil Catfight.

...Chill, relax. Sit down.




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"The will to do, the soul to dare." -Sir Walter Scott
kowalski 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 157 on 10/11/2005 3:37 PM >
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Posted by Tanuki
It does seem that most of the tunnels under Victoria (at least the one's that I've found) are currently being used for storm water drainage. I fail to see how this makes them less interesting. If you were going to construct a stormwater drainage system, why would you build new tunnels if there were already ones there? It seems most likely that if there really were tunnels being used to smuggle opium, people, or whatever else, many of them would currently be part of the stormwater drainage system.

Actually, if a tunnel is being used for stormwater drainage, it has almost assuredly always been used for stormwater or combined sewer drainage. Drainage tunnels must maintain a downward grade. If I'm digging a tunnel for people, probably surreptitiously and informally, I'm not going to be worrying about maintaining a consistent, downward-sloping grade between 1-5%.

That said, the next time I'm out there I'd love to meet you and see what you've found. Because I love drainage.



[last edit 10/11/2005 5:44 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]

KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 158 on 10/11/2005 5:40 PM >
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This is all very exciting.

Tanuki has offered the first personal hands-on 'I've been inside the tunnels' accounts.

Thank you very much.

All you cynics (Jester excepted...he's too cute to be seriously and professionally cynical) can breathe easy: the evidence is piling up. This rumours will be proved and validated soon enough.

Email me if you're interested in persuing this more completely.




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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BimmiN 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 159 on 10/11/2005 8:55 PM >
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Posted by Tanuki
No, the CRD doesn't have maps of Bowker Creek. Like I said in my previous post, they leave that to the non-profit society. They also don't have maps of the storm drains either, that you have to look in city archives for, and Victoria, Oak Bay, and Saanich are all kept separate.


I guarantee they have all waterflow mapped out very accurately. I work for a Gov't corporation that deals with some of this stuff and they have very comprehensive maps of all rivers, creeks, streams and drainage paths.
They have to keep this maintained and up to date in case of blockage or overflow...




-=BimmiN=-
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