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 The Lost Flock
   
Location: Montreal, QC
Gender: Male
baaah.
 |  |  |  | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 140 on 10/2/2003 1:53 AM >
|  | | | tee+ ninjat Skiiis? Man... those must be some AWESOME skis. Where'd you get em, play it again sports? Allright, but seriously, how abut telling us whay modifications you made? Maybe some pics? Could be some useful info.
-The Lost Flok
The Lost Flock is finding it's way.
Scaffolding is like monkey bars for adults. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| |  | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 141 on 10/9/2003 3:19 PM >
|  | | | Funny... I was remembering when Merlin and I went to a mission that we needed to use the grappling hook to go down off a pier so we could get to some shipyard that was about to be demolished. I got down, then watched him come down the rope... He slipped a bit, and came down fast, spinning like a rotisserie chicken round and round. It was so hilarious, I actually stumbled and had to brace myself against a rock because I was laughing so hard (while trying to not make any noise).
Yes, this isn't really a tip (other than don't spin around on a rope you're climbing down), but I just felt like sharing. 
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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DarkTreader
Gender: Male
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 142 on 10/9/2003 7:11 PM >
|  | | | If you're just trying to anchor something like an ankle weight to the end of a rope, why not just slip knot it on there? I'd still suggest duct-taping the knot itself, incase something starts to slip, but that should easily hold it.
Elaborate on this 'soft grapple' that you were talking about, I'm not sure if I totally understand it. The way its sounding to me, you're hooking it over something like a tree branch or whatnot, and then climbing up to said place? If that's the case, you can... what's it called... ~wanders off to get his climbing guide~ Ah, here we go. If you're using standard climbing rope and are tying off both ends to stable areas, you can get a Pantin - a foot-mounted ascender. There are kinds that can just clip straight to the rope, so that wouldn't be a problem for speed. Basically, they're designed so you step up the rope at your own pace.
Just a suggestion.
footsteps light, flashlights bright
-~ DT
Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 143 on 10/9/2003 10:43 PM >
| | | | Far cheaper than the ascender and potentially more useful is the prussik knot tied in a loop of thin nylon cord. It can grab one or two strands of rope simultaneously. With two prussik loops tied correctly and a rock climbing harness, you can climb a single or doubled rope. I like to climb trees for fun & training using rock climbing gear. I can toss a weighted full size rope over a branch up to about 25 feet overhead. The trick is to have a weight on the end so you can shake the free end back down to you and climb both sides of the rope up to the branch.
If you have ascenders, you'll usually need a single strand of rope to climb. You can still use the branch toss, but you'll have to tue a loop around the standing end of the rope with the bitter end and pull it up tightly around the branch. This forces you to climb to the branch to retreive your rope, whereas with the doubled method you can get off somewhere else and pull the rope back over the branch to retreive it.
I'm (still) planning on making an informative guide that covers the essential parts of rope work that would be useful to an explorer. Someday it'll be done and I'll start an articles section with it.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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The Lost Flock
Location: Montreal, QC
Gender: Male
baaah.
| | | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 144 on 10/9/2003 11:47 PM >
| | | | Wow, that'd be really useful. I don't tend to do much rope climbing, some quick info and things to practice would be greatly appreciated! I'm still getting around to actually Making a hook though, so there doesn't seem to be much rush. =D
-The Lost Flock
The Lost Flock is finding it's way.
Scaffolding is like monkey bars for adults. |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 145 on 10/10/2003 1:27 PM >
| | | | From NOLS mountinering guide:
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Crimefighter
Gender: Male
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 146 on 10/10/2003 2:33 PM >
| | | | Jester and all here, hello. i use a grappling hook, that is made for that purpose it is a black four clawed hook with a black rope. It is like a rope that a ninja would use, though i am not a ninja. Mechanical ascenders will work good for climbing up it and a few mountainm climbing devices for decending quickly down the rope, like the swat teams would do from a heliocopter. this all works very well, but you need a harness around your waist and legs, with a figure eight shaped connector for the rope and a attachment to the harness, you will be able to speed and slow your decent down quickly. Also you should have reinforced leather gloves for climbing. And be strong in upper body strength. I avoid putting knots in the rope because you cannot decend quickly enough ina situation. to slide down the rope you need to be attached with a figure eight device and hooked to the carabiner on your harness, then you can speed dow very quick. Flip the rops in a whip-like fasion and the hook will flick off and come down, or you can hook the hook around a bar and it will slide down after.
i was also thinking of inventing a acending device using a deep sea electric reel that has a motor on it, it should be able to pull up 300 pund fish from the ocean floor. So i suppose it could support a 200 pound man. Also when decending it would work great if the drag is very tense. this would allow a slow decent from a tree or building, kind of like batman uses in his device. But i have not tested this with a deep sea reel, so don't try it . it could be dangerous. i used a fresh water reel and set the drag very tight it worked to some degree. But i had to adjust the reel and set rubber bands to slow the drag down. I am hoping that i can get a cheap used electric reel and set up a CO2 cartridge to it and propell the grappling hook from a hand held device and just turn the device on and it will pull me up and allow me to go down at any speed also.
But I was wondering what jester does on his missions.
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nakigara
Location: ca desert
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 147 on 10/10/2003 5:01 PM >
| | | | crimefighter> Im rather doubtful that the deep-sea reel will work, because it isnt pulling the equivelant of 300lbs up. I forget how the physics of this work exactly,(im sure someone here will explain it better, probabally before i finish this post) but most fish are relatively close to neutral bouyancey(sp?) so a 300lb fish is not exerting its full 300lbs as a downward force. most of the pull on something like that would be for drag, and i guess fighting the fish or something(i dont know, i dont fish).
good idea though, maybe it will work(or you will just need a more powerful one?) but be safe about trying it, try it out on dead weight before you try it on yourself(fill a duffle up with books/sandbags/mischeavyobjects and see if you can pull it up to a roof or raised platform)
personally, id suggest just climbing the rope, and practice it to get better at it, climbing short distances isnt too hard, and it will get much easier with practice. plus, you have less equipment to worry about failing on you, or weighing you down. and exercise is good. period.
for those of you who have trouble climbing ropes(granted, this is most likely common knowledge, but figured id mention it anyways) you can wrap the rope around your leg, and trap it between the sole of one foot and the top of the other. this way, it will slide through your legs when you pull up, but then you can sorta step on your foot, and 'anchor' yourself in place. very helpful for longer climbs, if youve got weight, your tired, or just not real good at climbing.
doing that way, if you get a little skilled, you can climb using primarily lower body strength, by just holding your place with your hands, and sorta 'stepping' up and anchoring, then lifting your body weight with your legs.
yogurt and beer. mmmm...... |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 148 on 10/10/2003 6:09 PM >
| | | | Another way to grab a rope with your feet is to do the following. It works best with fatter and stiffer ropes.
While hanging from the rope by your hands, cross your feet as shown below.
Put them on either side of the rope, lift them high, and uncross them, making sure to fold the rope between them in the process.
Push your feet together hard and stand up. Move your hands higher, unclamp your feet, and repeat the process.
The illustrated version demonstrating the proper way to place your feet before grabbing the rope and how it should end up.
Me demonstrating using my hands as imaginary feet that grab a spare printer cable. Only the best quality here.
[last edit 10/10/2003 6:18 PM by MacGyver - edited 2 times]
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Chud
Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd...
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 149 on 10/10/2003 6:14 PM >
| | | | Interesting and useful, Kraze. I'll buy that space to see my name there, and I'll even send you some fresh* peanut butter cookies**!
*May not be fresh
**May not be peanut butter cookies
Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything.
-Kimmo |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 150 on 10/10/2003 6:18 PM >
| | | | OK, where're my cookies?
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Chud
Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd...
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 151 on 10/10/2003 6:21 PM >
| | | | I direct you to the "Post a pic of your rig" thread, or wherever my comp-pic is sitting. Enjoy!
Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything.
-Kimmo |
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RadEd
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 152 on 10/11/2003 12:59 AM >
| | | | Nice krazy. My brother will love that. I always just grab it with my big toes though.
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nakigara
Location: ca desert
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 153 on 10/11/2003 5:42 AM >
| | | | thanx krazy.
i think your post probabally makes a lot more sense, and the illustration is definitely easier to follow.
pretty sure theres about a dozen different techniques, but pretty much the end result is getting the rope 'twixt your feet so you can clamp down on it with your body weight. looks like your method might be easier then the one i was trying to explain.
making sense was never one of my strongpoints...
yogurt and beer. mmmm...... |
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Crimefighter
Gender: Male
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 154 on 10/12/2003 1:23 PM >
| | | | Hello all, like I said before, rapelling down the rope with a balley and carribeaner, is the fastes way and the neatest. But making nots and loops in the rope is also good for climbing up and down. It is just a bit slower. When climbing up the rope mechanical acenders in both hands, can be used. They can be the very small ones attached to a carribeaner, or the biggerone that hooks to the rope itself . You may also want to use a strong string with a foot loop attached to the carribeaner to pull yourself up the rope. it is like you are walking up the rope. The only problem with this stuff, is that when you are climbing it will be will clumbersome with strings or cords and the set up.
I also saw another device resntly that could help me decend from a tall building or tree, as if i was gliding or floating down it. But it cost a bit of money so I canot afford it yet. And I would have to test it out on a none person first, perhaps a 200 pound sand bag or something. It is a weight trainging excercise device. You stand on it and pull up two cords from the side like weight lifting. The reason it is so neat is that you can set the tension to very strong pull. Like a deep sea reel drag, yet stringer. If I re-equip the rope with a very strong tension line it may work good for floating down from a tall tree or side of a building. It would give you the feeling that you are gliding down the side slowly. It also has a automatic recoil attached to it so it could be recoiled automatically. It would most likely attach to a mountain climbing harnes on my waist. It could work, that is if the tension and drag will hold up. Don't try this it could be dangerous.
If anyone has any ideas on how to make a verticle acender without using to much heavy equipment (like a larger battery attached to your back with a small motor) let e know. I am looking for a device, or trying to make one that would do the same thing you see in the batman movies. (I know it is just a movie and the device may not exist) bt i have some good ideas on how to do it. What I want to make is a device that can shoot a smaller , strong grapple out of a hand held device with a strong cord attached to it and then automatically pull me up to the top of the edge or building.
Any ideasm anyone?
By the way sorry for the horrible spelling and typing. I type fast and and I did not chech my work last time.
Jester what about you, any ideas?
Also I want to comment on a article ai read previously about how it may be hard to attach a grappliong hook to a tree etc. I have found it very easy with the four hooked graple I have, it has sharp points on the ends of the hooks.. it digs in nicely and can be unattached easily. The weight of the grapple hook is just right to cast it up or across to a tree after you spin it around once. Also a neat thing to try is to throw it from a tree to another tree close by at a 45 degree angle to yourself and tie it down on your tree, the attach a rolling device to the rope with a carribeaner under it and you can roll across on the wheel. Again be careful, careful that your grapple is attacjhed and that you are not too high to die from the fall if you make a mistake. As a matter of fact, don't try it at all uless you are able to survive the fall.
Crimefighter
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 155 on 10/12/2003 7:27 PM >
| | | | Well, I honestly don't have any useful ideas for any mechanical devices to aid in climbing. I'm more of the MacGyver (bubblegum, dental floss, and an eye hook creation) type. Krazy and others have the real mechanical aptitudes, so maybe they can come up with something...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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nakigara
Location: ca desert
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 156 on 10/13/2003 5:22 AM >
| | | | Im sure its been mentioned in here earlier, but im too lazy right now to go and find where.
most of the grappling hook-usage that is talked about in here is only to gain a story or three, and most people are in good enough shape to climb that high. i guess the mechanical ascender would let you be lazy or something, but personally i think i would just rather not have to deal with the extra weight and potential problems of unnecessary mechanical gear.
*shrugs* just me i guess, i think ive got part gremlin heritage, mechanical and electrical stuff seems to malfunction at an increased rate in my presence.
anyways, im sure there is the technology to make some sort of electrical motor that could pull a persons weight up a rope, even at a quick pace, but to get it at a size(including batteries) that would be easily man-portable might be prohibitively(sp) expensive.
i imagine there must be someway to do it with some sort of spring-powered device, but it would only work once without re-winding, and at that amount of force/power, it might need some heavy equipment to wind it. plus it would only work for a given distance.
dont have many other ideas, except maybe somesort of mechanical-advantage type gearing device, but then it wouldnt lend itself to rapid ascension, just make it easier or something.
yogurt and beer. mmmm...... |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 157 on 10/13/2003 5:49 PM >
| | | | self-powered climbing devices are inherently hard to make because of the amount of energy required to lift the averagew corpse, erm, body as well as the device. You're better off with prussiks or ascenders that use your muscular strength (because you have to carry those muscles with you anyways) instead of adding probably 100 pounds of winch and battery.
You could probably build something with a chainsaw/weedwhacker engine and a gearbox, but then you'd have to have that sucker in your face. Al electric version wouldn't be very quiet either. As motors & gearboxes get quieter, they tend to get a lot more expensive. Prissic/ascender climbing is as silent as it gets, assuming you don't have to grunt with every stride or bounce off of a tin wall. No batteries to die, gas to run out, and no extra bulk or weight to lug around.
If you were to build some kind of self-powered climbing device, it would have to have some internal safties to keep you from plummeting to the ground when something breaks or your battery dies. Maybe even as simple as a ratchet inside the drum to keep it from going backwards.
Here's an idea that might work and could even go backwards. I'm not sure how you'd drive it, but use a drum winch like those found on sailboats. Turn it on it's side and power it by a motor or engine hanging below it. The theory of this kind of winth is to wrap the rope around it three times and apply tension to the tail, which keeps the rope tightly wrapped around the turning drum.
Here's a sailboat winch with a handle attached. You turn the drum with the handle and pull on the loose end with your other hand. In rough seas, this requires hanging onto the deck using the suction cups built into your knees. (Most people don't know they have them until they need them  )
So turn one of these things on it's side and power it. It could work.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Crimefighter
Gender: Male
| | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 158 on 10/14/2003 1:26 PM >
| | | | Good ideas guys. But I am still thinking more along the Batman james Bond type of expensive, mechanical ascenders, (if such things were possible. Peraps the military has some kind of device as these. It would have to attach to my waist on a harness, and perhaps house a small no more than 15 pound or much less weight battery on my back pack. if that was possible. Or even no battery.
I thought of another device that could shoot off from a tube attached to my arm, with either CO2 cartridges to propell the rope and grappling hook, or a high tension elastic band, to release the hook. It would only shoot out about 20 feet or so, but that should be enought to get across tree tops or buildings or to get up on top of a building. It could also be used to tangle the feet of a escaping criminal.
I also thought of another device for climbing up tree trunks fast. It is like the devices that were uses for Telephone repair men. A sharp spike-like device is attached to the inside of your ankles and protdues out about 4 inches or so at the bottom. You dig your feet in sideways and along with triangular shape hooks in te palms of your hands, you grab the tree and climb upward. i have yet to make a prototype of these. but in theory it seems to be possible. My attempt would be to evade attackers quickly by climbinhg up a tall tree and onto a roof or building or evn then use my grapply hook shooting device to swing to another tree etc.
I thought of another device also, it is a reformed powerizer. I don't kow if any of you have ever seen these things, they are called POWERIZERS, check them out on the net, they allow a person wearing them on their feet to jump about 6 feet high and go 9 foot strides. Apparently you can even run some 30 miles an hour with them on. i have seen some men do stunts on them and they are really amazing. Incredible acrobatic moves can be done by the skilled practictioner. I propose adapting them to a colapsible device that can hide behind a pant leg and when you unzip the back of the pant leg the bow and arrow type resin arc, pops out and down to allow you to jump and run, then when you ave escaped of faught off bad guys you can collaps it again behind the leg.
Remeber guys and girl, keep thinking crimfighting devices.
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Grappling Hooks...
<Reply # 159 on 10/14/2003 6:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crimefighter
Remeber guys and girl, keep thinking crimfighting devices.
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I'll just try and keep thinking realistic.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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