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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   UER Forum > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > Grappling Hooks... (Viewed 8077 times) j0lt  Location: Kobe, Japan Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 80 on 7/28/2003 4:53 PM >   Posted by Rockman I'd go for a crossbow, probably made with a cross-country ski (the fiberglass ones work fairly well from what I've heard, they've got a good spring to them). The bolt I'd make from something like a 2-foot+ broomstick/dowel (to get the weight about right, you'd have to ballance it fairly well, and it would have to be heavy so as not to have a trajectory like a drunk sparrow). I'd put three or four hooks similar to the ones from Jester's on it and secure them fairly well, then have the rope secured to the back of the bolt. I'd probably just leave the rope in a nice pile on the ground, like you would with a normal grappling hook, because that's going to be by far the easiest way to get it to feed well. You could either put a bunch of knots in it or attach some sort of hand-driven winch to the back (if you were really sturdy with the construction maybe you could even use the thing as a seat for your ascent). When the time comes you could probably get a bit better range/accuracy than a good throw could provide, be a lot quieter than a cannon, and it would look really cool. I wouldn't reccomend using it for any practical reasons, but if there's ever a big UE meeting I'd consider putting one together for the hell of it. Keep in mind this is entirely hypothetical, I've always been tempted to build a crossbow but never gotten around to it, and same with grappling hooks. I have no idea if this is workable, so treat it like any other bullshit you read on the net. I don't know how well the ski would work, but it'd be awfully awkward to fire, as those things are quite wide, but your hook is doomed to failure. Wooden dowling (broomstick) is far too light, and putting metal hooks on the front end of it will just ruin any chance it has for straight flight. The best grappling hooks are fairly small, 3-6 inches or thereabouts. Anything bigger than that, and you're almost gonna have to drive it over to where you're gonna use it. If I were gonna make a grappling hook, I'd use heavy-duty shark-fishing hooks. (the one that's 3 or 4 hooks welded together) Attack a foot or two of light chain to the hook, and then tie climbing rope to the end of that. (the purpose of the chain is to protect the rope from sharp edges, barbed wire, etc...) j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly! Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 81 on 7/29/2003 3:15 PM >   I like the idea of using a treble hook, however I feel that the chain would make this version far too loud if/when it hit its target. Also, if the chain hit hard enough it could break a window. Something tells me that we're making this way too complicated (yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy of that statement). There should be an easy way to do this. I think Jester's hook is the most practical so far, but I think we can find a way to get the hook into places that it normally wouldn't reach. Hmmmmmmm.... Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 82 on 7/29/2003 3:36 PM >   Posted by MercuryCrest I think Jester's hook is the most practical so far, but I think we can find a way to get the hook into places that it normally wouldn't reach. Hmmmmmmm.... the answer is just so obvious... just climb up to where it was too high to throw and attach the hook, then climb back down and climb up the rope seriously though, I think if it's so high I can't make the throw, do I really want to climb up there with a grapple ? It's not like you have any saftey features like in full proper climbing gear... You're not tied off, don't have any thing to aid you if you have a slip... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. RevSM  Location: South Central Texas  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 83 on 7/29/2003 7:41 PM >   One of the members of SUV, Marbrough, came up with an interesting way to get a rope over a high support beam. This gadget consisted of a small crossbow a fishing reel, black electrical tape and small weights of some sort. He took the fishing reel and attached it to the side of the crossbow grip. Then he took one of the crossbow bolts and used electrical tape to attach several weights to the end to make it heavy. Next he attached the fishing line to the bolt. Now when you shoot the bolt it takes the fishing line with it. You have to balance the weight of the bolt to make sure it has enough power to take the fishing line with it and still have enough momentum to get it up and over your target. You also have to use some pretty strong fishing line so that you can attach climbing rope to one end and then be able to pull the other end of the line, and get it back over the support. Once you have your climbing rope up and over all you have to do is tie it off to some kind of anchor. Now you can climb right up easily. I hope all this makes sense. Tetanus for Breakfast! http://www.shatteredshutter.com MacGyver  Location: St Paul, Minnesota Gender: Male "Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 84 on 7/30/2003 2:46 AM >   Posted by RevSM <snip> You also have to use some pretty strong fishing line so that you can attach climbing rope to one end and then be able to pull the other end of the line, and get it back over the support. Once you have your climbing rope up and over all you have to do is tie it off to some kind of anchor. Now you can climb right up easily. A good method, and well explained. I'll elaborate even more. If your fishing line isn't beefy enough to pull the climbing rope up, use it to pull up a smaller rope, like crappy cotton clothesline rope. Then use that to pull up the climbing rope. Instead of tying off the other end of the climbing rope, consider leaving it doubled up and climbing both strands as one. This way you can pull all of the rope up when you get to the top and take it with you. With it tied off at the ground, you're forced to descend the same way to retreive the rope. If you want to climb a single strand of rope and still be able to get the rope up from the top, do the normal method, but tie a loop in one end (make sure to use an appropriate knot; ask me if you want info) and pass the other end through it. Now pull the end without the loop until the looped end is tightly hitched aroudn the beam or whatever. I have used all three of these methods to climb huge trees, and decided that I favor the two variations I described for one main reason. If you tie off the end of the rope and climb the other end, the middle of the rope chafes back and forth over the beam or branch and puts a lot of wear into the rope. Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine "If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." Rockman  Noble Donor  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 85 on 7/30/2003 5:31 AM >   Ok, so after reading this topic I couldn't shake all my "batman" fantasies from when I was a kid. That and the fact that I've been at quite a few sites where a grappling hook would have turned a 10 minute adventure into hour-long exploration extravaganza. There's nothing worse than that "if only I was 4 feet taller" feeling. So I made one. Actually two (the home depot near me had slightly differently shaped hooks). I attatched them to each end of a piece of rope (admittedly pretty shitty for climbing, but there aren't many rope stores open at midnight around me). I threw it in my bag and headed down to a school in the neighbourhood with a few dark corners, short walls (about 12-15 feet) and most importantly, grass. So I tossed it up a few times, hooked it a few times and bounced it a few times. Then it worked a little too well and got stuck(it was actually stuck on the knot). What followed was involved a very rough climb up a very shitty rope with some very half-assed foot-loops tied in (there was about a metre at the top without one). And then a climb down on the other side of the school which probably would've killed me if I were an inch or two shorter (ballancing on a fencepost). All the while some guy was watching us intently out his window, I guess he doesn't often see that type of thing. A whole load of fun. SO the verdict is, these things really do work, a little too well. Use them responsibly. RevSM  Location: South Central Texas  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 86 on 7/30/2003 12:51 PM >   Heh, yes it's true once you get the hook secure you had better be able to get to the top or else you’ll be out one grappling hook. As for the other method I mentioned I realized what should be done to get the rope at the top when you get there. First of all, you should always climb with at least one companion and this method would only work if you had another person climbing with you. First get the rope over and secure one end to an anchor on the ground. First person makes the climb and then when at the top finds a second anchor at the top to tie off on. Now the person still at the bottom unties that side and then climbs up. Now when you’re both at the top you can pull up the rope. Now that I think of it, this might have been what we did when we tested it. Tetanus for Breakfast! http://www.shatteredshutter.com outage  Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: Male  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 87 on 7/31/2003 3:13 AM >   How securely do those 'Home Depot' grappling hooks of the type Jester uses stick? Because they're essentially L-shaped I would have imagined the hook pivoting around the centre of the horizontal component of the L, possibly rotating off the object it's hooked onto. (In this case, I'm imagining it slung over a horizontal beam, like a rafter, say.) I know that's a really bad explanation. While I can imagine what I'm talking about in my mind's eye, putting it in words isn't as easy. Still, the Home Depot hooks have the advantage that they are rated to carry a certain weight, which you can trust it to hold. If I welded something myself out of scrap metal, probably only a metalurgist could reliably guess at how much it could safely carry. What sort of situations do you usually use them in? Obviously, when there's no other way of scaling a height, but I was hoping for some anecdotes on what types of site, what you snagged the hook on to, how high you trust it to climb, what surface you'd be positioned to fall on to should something go wrong, how long the climb took, risk of detection by authority etc. etc. Also what environmental circumstances would make you think twice about using a hook (high ambient moisture? etc.) Sorry for all the annoying questions. It'll be a long time before I become experienced anough as an explorer to need a grappler, but while we're on this topic... Thanks. [last edit 7/30/2003 10:15 PM by outage - edited 1 times] Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 88 on 7/31/2003 3:55 AM >   I've used them to go into windows that were open/broken, generally of 2nd/3rd floor. If you look at the first pic, you'll see the lip at the end of the L of the hook, this seems to halp it catch. Once you have force exerted upon it down, it should hold. When there is no downward force, it can come free... My personal feeling on the height I would use it on is based on how far I think I can fall relatively safely. Now, I've taken some decent falls and been thrown through tha air from my motorcycle at 60km so I've got an idea of my ability to handle landings. Each person has to decide this for themselves based on personal experience/ability. I don't think I'd like to use it more than about 3rd floor. Not so much because I don't trust the grapple, but because I don't trust whatever it is attached to. Without having been where the grapple is going, you don't know exactly what you're hooked on, or the durability of whatever it is. As for how long the climbs take, it's all dependant on the climber. If you have a wall to brace against(such as Kilby), it's much quicker than trying to go up a rope hanging straight down (such as Alouette prison). If you're going up against a wall, it can make a bit of noise, unless you go pretty slow. Going up a free hanging rope is quite quiet. As for what I'd fall on... well, whatever is under me Rain could play a factor if what you're grappling onto is in the rain of course, making it slippery and less likely to hold safely. It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. DarkTreader  Gender: Male  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 89 on 8/4/2003 7:47 AM >   I've also been tinkering around with the idea of a grappling hook, and here's what I've been able to come up with so far: 1) A collapsable hook is your friend. If its something that you can break down to a smaller size and carry in a pocket, rather than having a full sized thing in your bag taking up space, you're more likely to have something you need on a mission. 2) I -REALLY- like Jester's hook. I'm working on a concept now that's combining the collapsability of (ok, yes, roll eyes here) an umbrella, and Jester's hook. Basically, I'm working on taking apart the slide mechanism on an umbrella so that I can attack 2 or 3 of those hooks to it. If that works, I should be able to collapse it down to slightly smaller than typical umbrella size. 3) A silent version of a grappling hook launcher: the atlatl. You would, of course, have to attach the grappling hook to a stick of some sort, but with the added force that would be available, the drop would (hopefully) be almost nullified - and with some practice, you could gauge how much you'd have to arc it to achieve the point you'd like. For those of you who don't know what an atlatl is (Oh I do so hope that ascii art won't come out all fscked up...): _ / \ | \____________________________________n |_______________________________________/3 I know this makes no sense at all, but let me explain. A straight piece of (insert material here) with a large sloped knob on one end (about 40* is best) and a small notch on the other. Attach a strap or fingerhole of some sort to the end with the notch - this is where you will hold it. Mount your grappling hook to a spear about 4-ish feet long (possible with smaller sizes, but I'm going by what I've read) and notch the knob on the back to fit the back of the spear. Place the spear on the holder, braced in the front by the notch and butting against the back knob. When thrown, the force will whip the back of the atlatl forward and throw the spear with about 6 times as much force as could normally be produced. Possibly an absurd idea, but it could solve the 'silent grappling hook delivery system' problem. Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen armodude   |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 90 on 8/25/2003 4:08 AM >   hey mercurycrest, thats cool that u got that idea for the grappling launcher. i got some ideas on the design of it that i want to make my self. i was wondering if you could help me out. do u know where i could possibly find or get some co2 cartridges and give me some ideas on what parts go in the launcher cause i am serious about trying to design it and build it. here is my e-mail address so that u can send it to me there if you can or you can send it on here. my e-mail is [email protected] i know the basic parts i need are the co2 cartridges and a winching device and if they are available to buy from some stores can u give me some ideas on where to go. i hope to hear from you soon. thanks much appreaciated mike Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 91 on 8/25/2003 3:51 PM >   I'll email you after the storm calms down....As far as co2, my plan was to use the larger tanks that you find for paintball guns--any sporting goods store should have these. I was considering using more than one and hooking them up simultaneously.... Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" armodude   |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 92 on 8/27/2003 5:05 AM >   hey mercury crest, i was wondering do u know how long the storm is going to be there where u live. i got nothing against u but i didnt recieve the e-mail yet. i waited a few days and no e-mail. also besides getting the parts for the grappling launcher where would i be able to find the parts like the handle and the actual parts that the winching mechanism goes in. its the outside parts for it like the handle and all that. is there someone i go to if i cant build it or do i go to a certain store to get the parts like the handle and the buttons that u press. i am also inquiring about the grappling hooks. do i buy it from somewhere or can i custom build it some how. here is what i am talking about. u know the grappling launcher that batman has in the shows that he presses the button and the grappling hook comes out of. its the one in the batman and superman animated series. the one that kind of looks like a hammer in sort of way. but its square. its in the batman episode titled p.o.v when he uses the grappling launcher on the car. its that kind of a grappling hook and the grappling launcher from that specific movie. the outer part. thets the other one i am talking about. thanks much appreciated mike Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 93 on 8/27/2003 9:34 AM >   Okay, first off, My stepdad's hard drive just commited suicide, so I can't possibly make plans without the right software, which my mom's comp. can't handle. Second, I'll email you when I get the chance. So far, it looks like I can't get to it until Saturday at the earliest. I need my Blender 2.28 to show you any sort of plan. Right now I can't even get to the pic I posted earlier on this thread. As far as comic books go, I don't read them anymore; Batman's hook was far too simplified. I was planning on having a machinist friend of mine make the parts as needed; I would be able to pay him for his time and the raw materials, but you need exacting measurements if you expect any sort of accuracy, so machinist training is in order. Sorry for the sharp tone, but I just lost all sorts of 3d shit that I've been working on for almost a year now, and I'm not in the mood to worry about an email. I'll get ahold of you when my stepdad's comp is on the mend. It'll take a little time though, as I just got a new job and shit. Take it easy, and in the mean time, try to plan your own gun; we'll compare notes later on in the week. Peace.... Also, lose any hope of making a Batman Style launcher and hook; it just won't happen any time this century.... EDIT: Oh, as far as the simple stuff, you can mold a handle out of cast aluminum or something. That should be pretty easy; the hard part is the actual barrel of the gun. I think I may have found a way around that though...we'll see. Just have patience. All sorts of stuff has been screwed up since the comp went down.... Peace. [last edit 8/27/2003 4:36 AM by Corporeal Punishment - edited 1 times] Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" armodude   |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 94 on 8/27/2003 10:14 AM >   hey mercury crest, thanks for responding. sorry about that before. now that i read what u wrote, try to fix the software when u get a chance and by the way there is no rush. so what is that blender 2.88 u mentioned a couple times. for the handle do u know where i would possibly get the cast aluminum for the molding of the handle or how i can get something like that. right now i will try and work on my designs for the grappling launcher. i like that idea. i'll work on my idea and we'll compare notes. thanks a lot. mike Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 95 on 8/28/2003 11:28 PM >   Blender 2.28 is an opensource (ie. Free) 3d modeling and animation program. It's what I made the grappling hook I posted earlier in. I remember very little from all the drafting classes I've taken, and since I don't have AutoCAD, I use Blender to make models to work from. If you're interested in it, check out http://www.Elysiun.com. The aluminum could concievably be found at an art supply store, one that specialized in castings. If I actually try making this, I'm gonna use modeling clay, shape the handle, make a plaster cast, and use that to cast the handle and basic parts. Some of it will still require my friend's machinist skills, but I might be able to do most of the grunt work myself. <Merc> Def. of Computer: "A machine designed to speed up and automate errors." Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" j0lt  Location: Kobe, Japan Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 96 on 8/29/2003 4:32 PM >   Posted by MercuryCrest Blender 2.28 is an opensource (ie. Free) 3d modeling and animation program. Milkshape3d is also a free 3d modeling program, mostly used by people making Half-Life Mods. j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly! nakigara  Location: ca desert Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 97 on 9/13/2003 6:52 AM >   the cross bow bit would likely be pretty bulky, even if you arranged it so the 'bow' part was detachable. maybe you could try some sort of elastic/rubber bands, inner tube sections or something? I believe thats what they use to propel some of the spear-guns for scuba diving. less complicated then a CO2 system as well, and you could add strength with multiple bands. not sure how to work the actual grapple part, if you made it spear-shaped(to get more 'strectch' out of the bands) it would be harder to get the hooks to seat. maybe you could use a fixed grapple, attach a small tube to one side, and shoot it down a rod or rail of sorts? kinda like a model rocket, if anyone has ever played with them. ooohh.... rocket launched grapples.... just a couple ideas that bounced around out of my head yogurt and beer. mmmm...... Ricotta  Nobler Donor Location: Houston, TX Gender: Male De arimasu~  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 98 on 9/13/2003 8:46 AM >   *cough* RevSM  Location: South Central Texas  |  |  Re: Grappling Hooks... <Reply # 99 on 9/13/2003 6:26 PM >   The crossbow was of the mini variety, maybe 1ft long more or less and weighing very little. It was still powerful enough to send a weighted bolt and fising line about 25 ft into the air. We tied the fishing line to the climbing rope and had it up and over in no time. The only thing that you have to be careful of is breaking the fishing line if your rope is too heavy. Here is the crossbow that we used. It's cheap and is rated at 50lbs tension. http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/toys/crossbow.php I don't know if this site is for real but you could get one for $2.99 plus $11.00 shipping! If you went this route you could buy the entire launching setup (crossbow and fishing reel) for under $30 easily. Also Damien, that is the hook that I have, it's not bad but after a few uses it is now bent out of shape, still usable but will not collapse as easily. The rope that comes with it is nearly worthless. It's too thin. Tetanus for Breakfast! http://www.shatteredshutter.com UER Forum > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > Grappling Hooks... 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