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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9   UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Trusted System (OLD) (Viewed 5119 times) HauntedPA  Location: Anywhere and Everywhere Gender: Female What do you mean the rum is gone?!  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 140 on 3/13/2005 11:43 PM >   Posted by cavemonkey i have an idea but its probably been addressed above. To many posts!!! how about some sort of premium member status that gives you access instead of a trusted status? that would sort out the people that want to contribute and those who do not. something like 5 bucks a month or something, not very much but still enough to help with upkeep of the site and such. Theres a few sites that do this and it seems to work... Just an idea but thought id throw it out there. How many times does Av or other people have to say that this will NOT become a pay site? Monitary donation isn't the only way to contribute as pointed by so many people in this thread. The problems that seem to be cropping up here is that this a "patch" to fix a problem in the short term...it may work...it may not, but I think it's very late in the game to be doing this. Something like this should've been ironed out a long time ago. I remember people bringing up security issues with the site 6months ago. Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 141 on 3/14/2005 12:37 AM >   I said a long long time ago that a trust system could easily be put into place that would still allow people that aren't in areas of mods or other trusted members to be amongst the trusted. This isn't exactly the way I suggested, but it sounds like a workable plan. The truth is we do need a bit more security here, and this should at the very least, be a good start. Maybe there will be kinks in it, most plans do have unforseen problems, but we can work them out if they appear. It's like six degrees of seperation, if someone knows someone you know and they trust you, the other person will feel if so and so can trust them, I should be able to as well. Everyone will have more than ample opprtunity to be in the trusted level. The only reason anyone has to think they won't be trusted is if they really shouldn't be trusted... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Jennibel  Location: It's getting warmer...my mind is anticipating being on the river Gender: Female  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 142 on 3/14/2005 4:12 AM >   Here are my two cents also (not that I think anyone really cares): Along with a heck of a lot of other people here, I dont know anyone here... sure I've made comments on pictures & posted to forums, but I dont personally know any on this site. Yes, I do understand that I dont need to meet anyone to obtain status of a 'trusted' member. I'm not that stupid--I can read & comprehend what is read. Sure, there are members around where I live...but I dont know them nor do they now me. And if I can find other members to vouch for me, do they have to be trusted members first? There are some members that I dont think I would want to meet even if they were in my area. Nor is where I live an interesting place unless you think burned-out, abandoned houses & buildings that are falling in on themselves as being a possible exploration site. These places dont have history...just a target of some brain-dead firebug with too much freetime on their hands. Plus I dont have a lot of free time to go scouting for sites. I like looking at the pictures of other places that I (probably) wont have any way else to see. So, since I dont know anyone that would vouch for me as being 'trusted, nor do I have any places around where I live that I would deem interesting in being explored, I guess I will not be able to view any of the LDB or peruse forums. If it does come down to this, here is my "in advance" notice of THANK YOU for all the pictures I have seen of other places & of the suggestions on my car. --Jenn Life without knowledge is death in disguise. DjMalign  Location: Fort Collins, CO Gender: Male Sexy, sexy, sexy  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 143 on 3/14/2005 4:16 AM >   A trust system on the internet is pointless. Anyone can have any sort of persona they want to create. I'm not personally worried about not being trusted since I have met with people like slim jim, matc and others as well as contributing to the LDB and donating money. So this isn't coming from a voice saying "fuck, I don't think i'll be trusted so i'm screwed". I think its just silly to think that you can protect us by these kinds of barriers. Over time someone who wants to see the LDB will be able to, trusted system or not. Do you really think that it'll become truly a secret thing? Unless you make the forums devoid of anyone talking about the LDB the SOLE goal of internet hacks is to find out what you're hiding when they hear about something they cannot access. They'll pretend either way to gain access to the "elusive" LDB. Its like setting up fences to deter both urban explorers and vandals, only electronically and we all know how that works out. I think its worthless to spend time creating something like this. I hate all of you keti  Moderator Location: Providence, RI Gender: Female #EA98DE  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 144 on 3/14/2005 4:17 AM >   Posted by Girlgoyle Yes, I do understand that I dont need to meet anyone to obtain status of a 'trusted' member. I'm not that stupid--I can read & comprehend what is read. Then what's the problem? No one will blame you for not wanting to go out and meet people you've talked to on the internet. And you said it yourself, you won't need to. [23:38:31] <metawaffle> I'm surprised the NE forum doesn't fall off UER from the weight of thread locks uer.ca is like / being in the mob / basically, a / ninja mob. - Aleksandar Archer  Location: Toronto, ON Gender: Male Imperator Sagittario  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 145 on 3/14/2005 4:22 AM >   Posted by DjMalign A trust system on the internet is pointless. Anyone can have any sort of persona they want to create. I'm not personally worried about not being trusted since I have met with people like slim jim, matc and others as well as contributing to the LDB and donating money. So this isn't coming from a voice saying "fuck, I don't think i'll be trusted so i'm screwed". I think its just silly to think that you can protect us by these kinds of barriers. Over time someone who wants to see the LDB will be able to, trusted system or not. Do you really think that it'll become truly a secret thing? Unless you make the forums devoid of anyone talking about the LDB the SOLE goal of internet hacks is to find out what you're hiding when they hear about something they cannot access. They'll pretend either way to gain access to the "elusive" LDB. Its like setting up fences to deter both urban explorers and vandals, only electronically and we all know how that works out. I think its worthless to spend time creating something like this. Nothing will ever be 100% foolproof when it comes to security (well, except a Medeco lock...), and I doubt anyone expects this to work 100% of the time. But, if it can provide some deterrence to people who are using the LDB as a way of finding sites to vandalize and such, and forces them through the hassles of registering and trying to get themselves trusted just so they can vandalize, then is it not doing part of it's intended purpose? Abandoned UE - http://www.abandonedue.com "We live in a twilight world... and there are no friends at dusk." Jennibel  Location: It's getting warmer...my mind is anticipating being on the river Gender: Female  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 146 on 3/14/2005 4:31 AM >   The reason I mentioned that meeting someone in person is not a requirement to becoming a trusted member is that someone will inevitably post a reply exactly stating that! Life without knowledge is death in disguise. DjMalign  Location: Fort Collins, CO Gender: Male Sexy, sexy, sexy  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 147 on 3/14/2005 4:32 AM >   Posted by Archer Nothing will ever be 100% foolproof when it comes to security (well, except a Medeco lock...), and I doubt anyone expects this to work 100% of the time. But, if it can provide some deterrence to people who are using the LDB as a way of finding sites to vandalize and such, and forces them through the hassles of registering and trying to get themselves trusted just so they can vandalize, then is it not doing part of it's intended purpose? But it just won't. When you give hurdles to people who are curious enough they'll find ways of getting in, hence the UE reference. Locking down this site will NEVER prevent vandals from finding a location if registering alone gets you access to forums where people talk about UE. I understand that people have ideals about it all but its too much drama and nothing's going to be done about it. No law enforcement is going to come down on us and I would say that 90% of all vandals probably don't research their sites. Its Men in Black syndrome around here I hate all of you Kbasa  Location: Gunnison/Crested Butte, co Gender: Male High Hopes  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 148 on 3/14/2005 5:05 AM >   om yeah, why do we need a trusted status? Im pretty sure this forum is doing fine without one. Shut the fuck up and ride that fucking Couchmobile! Archer  Location: Toronto, ON Gender: Male Imperator Sagittario  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 149 on 3/14/2005 5:09 AM >   Posted by DjMalignBut it just won't. When you give hurdles to people who are curious enough they'll find ways of getting in, hence the UE reference. Locking down this site will NEVER prevent vandals from finding a location if registering alone gets you access to forums where people talk about UE. I understand that people have ideals about it all but its too much drama and nothing's going to be done about it. No law enforcement is going to come down on us and I would say that 90% of all vandals probably don't research their sites. Its Men in Black syndrome around here The hurdles comment kinda hit it dead on, IMO. While you won't deter the determined people, it will deter those who were looking for an easy ticket and don't want to do the work. While I agree that technically we don't need the ranks, either, it is Av's site, and if he wants to make a go of it, it's his choice. It's not going to cause me to leave and, at worse, temporarily lock me out of the LDB until I can work my way up to the trusted status. I've mulled over this over the past little while, and I say we should give it a shot. If it does turn out to be more problematic then the current system, we can always switch back. Abandoned UE - http://www.abandonedue.com "We live in a twilight world... and there are no friends at dusk." DjMalign  Location: Fort Collins, CO Gender: Male Sexy, sexy, sexy  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 150 on 3/14/2005 5:14 AM >   Posted by Archer The hurdles comment kinda hit it dead on, IMO. While you won't deter the determined people, it will deter those who were looking for an easy ticket and don't want to do the work. So then it has nothing to do with security but rather an idea that people feel that others need to do their homework rather than picking and choosing a site? Fine, then don't post a location publically, do it on a private website not giving any details. Yet again what I meant is that if someone hears "danvers" or "titan silo" they can get the info anyways from better sources than an LDB that doesn't even give the exact address from the posted location. If you lock down anything for security it would be the forums which are more informative than the LDB will ever be. I hate all of you Archer  Location: Toronto, ON Gender: Male Imperator Sagittario  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 151 on 3/14/2005 5:15 AM >   But that's the thing. It's not just the LDB that is locked down... IIRC, all the forums except for private boards you're a member of, the Main forum, and the Other forum are also locked down until you can get the Trusted status. So yes, there does appear to also be soem security aspect to it. Abandoned UE - http://www.abandonedue.com "We live in a twilight world... and there are no friends at dusk." DjMalign  Location: Fort Collins, CO Gender: Male Sexy, sexy, sexy  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 152 on 3/14/2005 5:21 AM >   Even having the main forum gives away plenty of info. Not only that but you'll lose MOST of the interest of the ue community that might be interested in coming in. I find this analagous to people who live in the suburbs who are scared of the inner city. I hate all of you ArmchairExplorer  Location: Vancouver  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 153 on 3/14/2005 7:35 AM >   Posted by Avatar-X If we implement this system, it will have very little cons I think, and a lot of pro's. It will allow us to feel more secure about posting on the site. Where will this leave us lurkers? I've read UER for several years and, as the star says, been a member for at least six months. I don't post much, but I don't stir up trouble either. Will I be out the door in two weeks for failing to win the 'trusted' popularity contest? What about growth? If new users can't see anything interesting, how will the board attract newbies? Word of mouth isn't anywhere near as effective as a google search. Roadwolf  The Wolf! Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada) Gender: Male Living on the Road and Rails.  |  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 154 on 3/14/2005 12:23 PM >   Posted by ArmchairExplorer Where will this leave us lurkers? I've read UER for several years and, as the star says, been a member for at least six months. I don't post much, but I don't stir up trouble either. Will I be out the door in two weeks for failing to win the 'trusted' popularity contest? What about growth? If new users can't see anything interesting, how will the board attract newbies? Word of mouth isn't anywhere near as effective as a google search. "I don't post much, but I don't stir up trouble either." Hmmm, if thats the thought that most of the lurkers reason with, that is sad. I am sure ArmchairExplorer that you can add interesting thoughts and ideas to many other topics if you tried to. How about coming to chat? chat is very popular and the topic of conversation is usually anything from UE to how to brush your teeth.. in otherwords, you can talk about anything you want. Saying your not going to post much because you don't want to stir up trouble is like saying "I don't want to go to work today because I could get hit by a bus on the way there." - Chances are it won't happen, so long as your careful. "What about growth?" - Well most people I have talked to have found UER.ca through its affiliate websites, such as www.infiltration.org Infiltration has inspired many new explorers over the years and will continue to do so, with Ninj's daring storys of his explorations all over the place. A google search will still bring up UER.ca if you search for "Urban Exploration". as that word is used frequently through the public areas of the website. If someone is determined enough, they will hang around long enough to become trusted. I suspect most of the people who have posted here will become trusted within a 2 week period after implementing this plan, and I also suspect chat will become much more popular. However its nothing to fear. Will I be out the door in two weeks for failing to win the 'trusted' popularity contest? No... you wont be kicked out if you fail gain the trusted star. and its not a popularity contest if anyone can win ! all you have to do is post more and maybe come into chat... it that too much to ask? Add me on Skype or Steam: Roadwolf611 darbycrashin  Noble Donor Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Gender: Female  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 155 on 3/14/2005 12:58 PM >   Posted by Roadwolf No... you wont be kicked out if you fail gain the trusted star. and its not a popularity contest if anyone can win ! all you have to do is post more and maybe come into chat... it that too much to ask? but what if you don't like online 'chats'. see this can go on forever. Flickr http://flickr.com/photos/klandry Roadwolf  The Wolf! Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada) Gender: Male Living on the Road and Rails.  |  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 156 on 3/14/2005 1:03 PM >   post in the forums... or offer to go exploring with someone from the site... and make the effort to meet up with them. I bet if you meet up with atleast one person he will tell his friends how cool you were and you would be trusted in no time. there are always ways to be social and earn trust, if you care enough that your worried about not being able to see the LDB, then you care enough to put some effort into it and meet some people. - either online or in real life... oh. and I would probably trust ya based on your 2 LDB entrys alone ! [last edit 3/14/2005 1:06 PM by Roadwolf - edited 2 times] Add me on Skype or Steam: Roadwolf611 CCC   |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 157 on 3/14/2005 1:43 PM >   I just don't see what the need is. I think there are one or two people stirring up fears where there don't need to be any. Has someone been a dumbass? Probably so. But guess what, people - there's at least one in every crowd. Get a grip. north  Location: Paris via Montreal via Ottawa Gender: Female  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 158 on 3/14/2005 2:13 PM >   Posted by sonikgirl but what if you don't like online 'chats'. see this can go on forever. read the forums, post to the forums, if someone makes a post that interests you pm them to talk to them about it. it might take you a week to get trusted status but if you want to be part of the community then it's worth it. start now, while you still have access! instead of posting here, post in your location forum, go to chat when you have a few minutes, post in the main forum. if you're that concerned about getting status, get your name out there instead of whining about how you won't get trusted. i really don't understand why everyone is freaking out about this. right from av's first post it's pretty obvious that 99% of the people on here will gain trusted status. Chainsaw  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male  |  |  Re: UER CHANGES -- ALL READ -- IMPORTANT <Reply # 159 on 3/14/2005 2:20 PM >   I'm still lurking - I admit it - watching this thread mainly to see where things go. I'd like to bring up a couple of topics. 1) If all the sites in the LDB that were contributed by folks who aren't trusted are "unavailable" why would anyone want access to the LDB? Really, if it went from 2000+ listings to 200+ listings would anyone really want to jump through any hoops to get to it? I personally think the LDB is the heart of this site, it's what drives new membership and the expansion of our community, hobbling it seems like a bad idea, just not quite so bad as denying level 2 users access to the content they provided. 2) I don't see how this is going to affect security or "protect" sites posted in the LDB - I know I certainly won't post more information about the sites I have posted because I can't control who sees it. Just because three 14 year olds "trust" each other doesn't mean they should have full access to the site info I am happy to, and continue to provide to the individuals on this board that I actually TRUST. Let's take JoeDipshit again as an example. I'm sure moments after the policy is in place he will be granted level 3 access, he has many friends on the board. I, personally, would not share specific access information with JoeDipshit because I know he has a different opinion about "souvenir hunting" than I do. I would not want to provide him specific location or access-how-to information. Therefore, I will not post this information in my LDB entries. So - no change, I still don't share the information I have with someone unless the come to me and ask for it and I feel they are trustworthy and responsible enough to have it. This is all just pissin' in the wind though, anyone with enough brain cells to operate a motor vehicle can look at my sites in the LDB, do a little research and get into them on their own. My restricting information is no more than an attempt to belay guilt about someone disreputable trashing or thieving from a site I have posted. 3) I'm not worried about the lurkers being cut off, honestly. If someone isn't willing to participate in the community as anything but a voyeur we should probably limit their access to the LDB. I have nothing against the armchair explorers, and if they really want to continue there are plenty of Mac vs PC vs Linux discussions and what not for them to join to get their status upgraded. What we're really worried about is law enforcement and site owners using the LDB to figure out whom they can prosecute or who they should be keeping an eye on. This system DOES that, but at the cost of temporarily losing 90% of the LDB? Maybe losing as much as 10-25% of it permanently as old users never come back, get their status upgraded and have their content made available again? I have always taken measures when posting LDB information to conceal the dates and specific locations of the sites I have visited. I will say "old mill" instead of "Old G&W Sugar Mill on 119 in Longmont" - being just vague enough to protect myself. I don't post information the day after I visit it, I will say "last fall" instead of "October 12th, 2004" when I post something weeks or months after I have visited it. I love sharing photos and stories about my explorations, the LDB is the best place to do that. But, I take PERSONAL responsibility to make sure these sites and my own ass is protected when I post. I don't think it's the Mod's and owners responsibility to do that. I think we're opening a can of worms - by providing a false sense of security with these new "levels" will only make people more complacent about what they post. I'm sure there are plenty of snitches on board that will have level3 access within hours or days of coming around here. I'm also sure that there are lots of users that will misuse their trust granting privilege. What I'm saying is there will still be people *I* deem untrustworthy having access to the LDB so I will have to continue my vigilance about what information I provide about sites to satisfy my own sense of respect for these locations. So, when all is said and done - we have extra hoops, ass kissing and arguments about trust, no real extra security for locations posted in the LDB and some of us will have little stars on our bellies. I applaud all the hard work Av does on this site, but I think this is something best left alone. If we leave the LDB "public" it allows the individual to decide on what level security should be considered when posting information. If you have some REAL sensitive information about a site that you do not want to share with the public, set up your own damn site and invite YOUR trusted comrades to view it (I'm thinking about what Shane did with the whole florida Door location). I don't think we'll be able to make sure that no snitches, thieves or vandals will get to it anyway and I don't think it's Av or the moderators responsibility from getting to it. It's the posters. Now, I for one trust Av's judgement, and I don't think I've ever had any reason to feel uncomfortable with a mod abusing their privilege to view information. If *I* could mark a site "private" - like the private discussion forums we have now - and invite the users I want to have access, and the mods can view and moderate as necessary in that "private" location, yeah, I'd probably share more, but this system Av's proposing and rolling out just doesn't provide me the security I would want to share any extra information and I think the cost of it is too high for us, as a community, to pay. Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Trusted System (OLD) (Viewed 5119 times)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. 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