Posted by cr400 Those '80's mopar products make me want to puke...... These are what I grew up with, owned one of each thru the years. Now all I've got is a '68 Charger. A primered garage queen!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube...atch?v=T1Dc7SlAXRw I can't get embedding to work for the life of me!!!!!!!!!!

you're showing your age, CR... kids my age that was what we had. And to be honest, they weren't that bad. I mean you could piss pound a Duster/Turismo/O24/TC3/Horizon/Omni/K-car/Sundance/Shadow/Daytona/Laser all the live long day and they'd stand up... hell even I had a couple of these cars. Yeah, me, Mr. GM... I had some FWD Mopars and loved them! Yes, try not to have heart failure.

click to view

My wife's old pilot parked by a certain shopping mall/slaughterhouse.

The 80s are 2nd most important time in Mopar history!
First you have Lee Iacocca who comes over from A tenure at Ford. This is the man who is responsible for the Mustang, who Henry Ford II rejected his latest ideas as too expensive to make. Those ideas were the K-cars and the Minivan. Both of which changed the playing field.

Yes, they made technicians rich, it was a glorious time, the end of a golden age in repair.

Posted by Agent Skelly The 80s are 2nd most important time in Mopar history! First you have Lee Iacocca who comes over from A tenure at Ford. This is the man who is responsible for the Mustang, who Henry Ford II rejected his latest ideas as too expensive to make. Those ideas were the K-cars and the Minivan. Both of which changed the playing field.

If read into the history of Ford, Iacocca was fired more because of his personality than his product planning, although the Carousel Project will probably be remembered as Henry II's biggest opus of fail in the 1970's.

Posted by Samurai If read into the history of Ford, Iacocca was fired more because of his personality than his product planning, although the Carousel Project will probably be remembered as Henry II's biggest opus of fail in the 1970's.

Yeah, his personality played the part too but I like his personality...sort of a "kill them let god sort it out" personality.

But yes, project Carousel was Henry II's worst decision ever...all because he thought the future was in station wagons still. The only reason is that people EVER liked station wagons en masse was because it was the only big vehicle out there that could hold the entire family.

Interesting bit about the K platform; there was a few prototypes outside of the sedan and Caravan uses of the famous platform. There was actually a Jeep prototype using the K platform; from what I have heard, it was to be 4 door but not sure what the body would be; my conjecture it would of been like a cross between the AMC Eagle and a XJ. It didn't get anywhere due to concentration on the Grand Cherokee, but Mr. Iacocca apparently applauded the Jeep guys for the effort.

There was also a small truck prootype on the K-car platform that would of been sold as a Dodge; the target was going after the Isuzu Pup and the Chevy Luv; but it was felt it was too week for even a light truck. I've wondered if this was toyed around as a second generation Jeep Comanche.

ok, Skellyman, i'm going to take your post a piece at a time...

Posted by Agent Skelly Yeah, his personality played the part too but I like his personality...sort of a "kill them let god sort it out" personality.

Iacocca was a driven guy. Read his autobiography. He was always thinking outside the lines and that was why Detroit/Dearborn drove him nuts. The Mustang was a lesson in that frustration. They had a small committee going (Fairlane Committee) that knew without a doubt that the Mustang would be a huge hit. Ford upper management resisted it every step of the way. In fact, the car was ready to go by 1962, but Henry II still insisted on the car being more like the original Thunderbird, a two-seater focusing on more personal luxury themes than something cheap and sporty for the masses. Eventually Iacocca won out and history repeated itself with the Mustang II. I always got the feeling from reading about Iacocca and seeing interviews with him was that he was a "Bob Lutz". He knew what products would turn people on. Henry II didn't have that savvy about him as he wasn't a 'car guy'.

But yes, project Carousel was Henry II's worst decision ever...all because he thought the future was in station wagons still. The only reason is that people EVER liked station wagons en masse was because it was the only big vehicle out there that could hold the entire family.

I wouldn't say that the Carousel was Henry II's worst decision, but it was definitely indicative of the short-sighted thinking that plagued Detroit during the 1970's and damn near drove the American automobile to extinction. Station wagons, even to this day, still have a market. In fact, there was much lamentation when the Focus and Cavalier/Sunbird wagons were discontinued. The SUV tried to fill the role left, but they're, obviously, too heavy and too unwieldy for everyday use.

Interesting bit about the K platform; there was a few prototypes outside of the sedan and Caravan uses of the famous platform. There was actually a Jeep prototype using the K platform; from what I have heard, it was to be 4 door but not sure what the body would be; my conjecture it would of been like a cross between the AMC Eagle and a XJ. It didn't get anywhere due to concentration on the Grand Cherokee, but Mr. Iacocca apparently applauded the Jeep guys for the effort.

In that environment, the idea was to try ANYTHING to get the customer in the door. It was the twilight of the multi-divisional structure in the American auto industry, and it was difference that sold. It may have only been skin deep, but it was still different. Unfortunately, as the 80's wore on, Chrysler and GM's platform/badge engineering backfired and people began to question the legitimacy of buying a Cadillac that looked like a Buick that looked like an Oldsmobile that looked like a Pontiac that looked like a Chevrolet. Same went for the Chrysler camp... with the K-chassis and the other FWD variants, you could only do so much styling wise. This was why the LH platform and Neon program were so important.

Strangely, Ford was less guilty of badge engineering than the other two manufacturers. Their models were still on the same chassis, BUT looked different enough to still be differentiated. Case in point... Mustang versus Capri. Same FOX-body engineering, BUT the sheetmetal was completely different. You could park an 85 Capri next to an 85 Mustang and even though the profiles and dimensions were close, one looked like a Mercury and the other was unmistakably a Ford. However as time wore on, mostly into the 90's, that was less and less true. This was where Mercury really began the slide towards Plymouth-dom.

There was also a small truck prootype on the K-car platform that would of been sold as a Dodge; the target was going after the Isuzu Pup and the Chevy Luv; but it was felt it was too week for even a light truck. I've wondered if this was toyed around as a second generation Jeep Comanche.

Actually if you reach way back into the quasi-mystical 'captive' import days, Chrysler already something like that. There was a car imported from Mitsubishi called the Plymouth Arrow. It was a chunk, happy little hatchback (http://en.wikipedi...iki/Plymouth_Arrow) and the Arrow truck (http://en.wikipedi...ymouth_Arrow_Truck). The little Dodge D50 was spun off that chassis. Instead of engineering a new small, truck... Again, Chrysler turned to a lesson from Volkswagen and engineered the Horizon/024 chassis to making a small, car-based truck... the Plymouth Scamp and the Dodge Rampage. (http://en.wikipedi...wiki/Dodge_Rampage)

The Comanche was abandoned because it's market position was questionable. It would be competing with Dodge's new small pickup, the Dakota and the smaller Dodge D50 which was still in production. So, like the Scrambler before it, the Comanche was relegated to the history books.

For all of you too young to know what we're talking about, i'll wiki link you:
http://en.wikipedi...wiki/Jeep_Comanche
http://en.wikipedi...-8_.28Scrambler.29

Posted by Samurai ok, Skellyman, i'm going to take your post a piece at a time... Iacocca was a driven guy. Read his autobiography. He was always thinking outside the lines and that was why Detroit/Dearborn drove him nuts. The Mustang was a lesson in that frustration. They had a small committee going (Fairlane Committee) that knew without a doubt that the Mustang would be a huge hit. Ford upper management resisted it every step of the way. In fact, the car was ready to go by 1962, but Henry II still insisted on the car being more like the original Thunderbird, a two-seater focusing on more personal luxury themes than something cheap and sporty for the masses. Eventually Iacocca won out and history repeated itself with the Mustang II. I always got the feeling from reading about Iacocca and seeing interviews with him was that he was a "Bob Lutz". He knew what products would turn people on. Henry II didn't have that savvy about him as he wasn't a 'car guy'. I wouldn't say that the Carousel was Henry II's worst decision, but it was definitely indicative of the short-sighted thinking that plagued Detroit during the 1970's and damn near drove the American automobile to extinction. Station wagons, even to this day, still have a market. In fact, there was much lamentation when the Focus and Cavalier/Sunbird wagons were discontinued. The SUV tried to fill the role left, but they're, obviously, too heavy and too unwieldy for everyday use. In that environment, the idea was to try ANYTHING to get the customer in the door. It was the twilight of the multi-divisional structure in the American auto industry, and it was difference that sold. It may have only been skin deep, but it was still different. Unfortunately, as the 80's wore on, Chrysler and GM's platform/badge engineering backfired and people began to question the legitimacy of buying a Cadillac that looked like a Buick that looked like an Oldsmobile that looked like a Pontiac that looked like a Chevrolet. Same went for the Chrysler camp... with the K-chassis and the other FWD variants, you could only do so much styling wise. This was why the LH platform and Neon program were so important. Strangely, Ford was less guilty of badge engineering than the other two manufacturers. Their models were still on the same chassis, BUT looked different enough to still be differentiated. Case in point... Mustang versus Capri. Same FOX-body engineering, BUT the sheetmetal was completely different. You could park an 85 Capri next to an 85 Mustang and even though the profiles and dimensions were close, one looked like a Mercury and the other was unmistakably a Ford. However as time wore on, mostly into the 90's, that was less and less true. This was where Mercury really began the slide towards Plymouth-dom. Actually if you reach way back into the quasi-mystical 'captive' import days, Chrysler already something like that. There was a car imported from Mitsubishi called the Plymouth Arrow. It was a chunk, happy little hatchback (http://en.wikipedi...iki/Plymouth_Arrow) and the Arrow truck (http://en.wikipedi...ymouth_Arrow_Truck). The little Dodge D50 was spun off that chassis. Instead of engineering a new small, truck... Again, Chrysler turned to a lesson from Volkswagen and engineered the Horizon/024 chassis to making a small, car-based truck... the Plymouth Scamp and the Dodge Rampage. (http://en.wikipedi...wiki/Dodge_Rampage) The Comanche was abandoned because it's market position was questionable. It would be competing with Dodge's new small pickup, the Dakota and the smaller Dodge D50 which was still in production. So, like the Scrambler before it, the Comanche was relegated to the history books. For all of you too young to know what we're talking about, i'll wiki link you: http://en.wikipedi...wiki/Jeep_Comanche http://en.wikipedi...-8_.28Scrambler.29

Wow, Samauri, you went the extra mile on everything! I agree with you spot on with everything. And I have been reading a chapter here and there of his autobiography and a few other books about him.

Its interesting you mention Bob Lutz. Iacocca later said he should of put him in charge of Chrysler instead of Bob Eaton; however Iacocca admits him and Lutz (who was President while Iacocca was CEO at the time) were in a little spat and he picked Eaton to spite him. But Lutz went on to do other things...like GM.

And thats what I like about Iacocca; he knows when you admit he's wrong and does not use fancy buzz words to cover it up like other CEOs did. I can picture if something like the Toyota Brake issue came up with Chrysler, he would of said to the media "Yeah, we fucked up"

Henry II was more like his grandfather; Henry Ford himself was not really a car guy (and granted there was not many car guys in his era either) but he was one of those executives who wants to tell the customer what they want instead of the other way around. Case in point, the model T was not made as a truck from the plant; Henry didn't care for trucks; but he sold dealers Model Ts with no back end and they put the bed end. It wasn't until Edsel Ford who realized this trend of trucks and well created the legendary F-series.

And now I come to think of it, the Maxivan (original name Iacocca had for the Caravan...sounds like more of a tampon!) was not the worst decision that Henry II did...it was....EDSEL! Who the hell designs cars with a vagina on the front?

I know the K-Jeep was also started out as a internal joke from Chrysler as a few AMC guys who made the transition to Chrysler pointed out when they came over, basically, all of Chrysler was K-car crazy. The joke was that by 1995, anything with an Pentastar on it, would be a K-car; even the trucks! So the Jeep guys took this literally and created the K-car based Jeep. Now that I look more at it, I think it was more of a team exercise than a real R&D project. Though I am now having pictures in my head of a 2nd Generation AMC Eagle built on the K-car platform...

As for station wagons; yeah they are still around, but its not the station wagons we both know and remember Samurai. While I barely remember the big boat-era of Station wagons, pretty much the last "Family Wagon Truckster" type wagon was the Ford Taurus Wagon.

1.

Posted by Agent Skelly And thats what I like about Iacocca; he knows when you admit he's wrong and does not use fancy buzz words to cover it up like other CEOs did.

a few years back, there was a documentary on TBS called "Driving Passion". It was a brief history of the car and America's love affair with it. Lee Iacocca was one of the people that was interviewed for it. He was VERY candid on the state of the auto industry in the 1970's and very critical of fellow executives. The Japanese threat was not taken seriously and industry moguls, such as Henry Ford II, mistakenly believed that Americans would buy whatever they were selling. They were wrong and by 1980, Ford and Chrysler were at the brink of bankruptcy (Ford hid their problems better than Chrysler). Iacocca was also very candid over the lax quality control on American-made cars, and how the cars from that period literally would just fall apart.

Henry II was more like his grandfather; Henry Ford himself was not really a car guy (and granted there was not many car guys in his era either) but he was one of those executives who wants to tell the customer what they want instead of the other way around. Case in point, the model T was not made as a truck from the plant; Henry didn't care for trucks; but he sold dealers Model Ts with no back end and they put the bed end. It wasn't until Edsel Ford who realized this trend of trucks and well created the legendary F-series.

It wasn't that Henry Ford didn't care for trucks, it was that the Model T as it was built was designed to replace the family horse. It was supposed to be a swiss army knife on wheels. What's ironic is even as the Model T was selling in vast numbers to replace the horse, Ford was also trying to sell the "Fordson" tractor to farmers. It's funny you mention Edsel Ford. He was a styling genius and knew what turned people on, but his father rode him like a government mule. The Lincoln Zephyr was one of the most beautiful designs ever to come out of Dearborn and that really was Edsel's opus before he died of stomach or pancreatic cancer (I don't remember which).

And now I come to think of it, the Maxivan (original name Iacocca had for the Caravan...sounds like more of a tampon!) was not the worst decision that Henry II did...it was....EDSEL! Who the hell designs cars with a vagina on the front?

the Edsel design was years ahead of anything else in Detroit at the time. However, the public just wasn't ready for the horse collar grill. See the Edsel, in of itself, was not supposed to be just another Ford model. The Edsel was to be another division to combat GM's structure (which in the 50's and 60's was a model of success). Henry Ford II believed that to beat GM, Ford had to be like GM and that meant multiple divisions. The theory was that you bought a Ford, traded for an Edsel, then traded into a Mercury and eventually traded up to a Lincoln. Chrysler was even in on this one... I am a little fuzzy on their divisions, and correct me if i'm wrong, but... your initial Chrysler was a Plymouth, then a Dodge, then a DeSoto, then a Chrysler and then an Imperial.

I found it ironic that even though the Edsel 'horse collar' was rejected by buyers, Pontiac went to it in the late 60's in the Bonneville and Catalina.

I know the K-Jeep was also started out as a internal joke from Chrysler as a few AMC guys who made the transition to Chrysler pointed out when they came over, basically, all of Chrysler was K-car crazy. The joke was that by 1995, anything with an Pentastar on it, would be a K-car; even the trucks! So the Jeep guys took this literally and created the K-car based Jeep. Now that I look more at it, I think it was more of a team exercise than a real R&D project. Though I am now having pictures in my head of a 2nd Generation AMC Eagle built on the K-car platform...

it may seem like a joke now, but back then, in the early 80's, if the K-car had bombed, that would've been it for Chrysler. Those of us old enough to remember 1980 remember how bad a time it was for the economy and, by proxy, the auto industry. The K-car was to Chrysler what the Fox body was to Ford. If the Fairmont/Zephyr had bombed in 1978-1979, that would've been it for Ford. They were as in red as Chrysler, but had their global business keeping them afloat.

As for station wagons; yeah they are still around, but its not the station wagons we both know and remember Samurai. While I barely remember the big boat-era of Station wagons, pretty much the last "Family Wagon Truckster" type wagon was the Ford Taurus Wagon.

I remember my neighbors had a HUGE 1974 Chevy KINGSWOOD station wagon... it must;ve weighed as much as an M1 tank. How they got away with driving this thing without a CDL was beyond me. My friend Will's grandma had a 1977 LTD Country Squire wagon, both with the faux woodgrain tape... everytime I saw both cars I cracked up laughing thinking of "National Lampoons Vacation"

The WagonQueen Family Truckster... in metallic peat.

my Warrior parked in front of an abandoned substation that has been falling into the earth since the 1970's:

Life's good.

click to view

my 06 bonneville t100 infront of an old petrol station

Posted by sleeperspirit click to view my 06 bonneville t100 infront of an old petrol station

why can i not upload larger images and it distorted this picture??

Just upload to an image hosting site like flickr or photobucket.

"why can i not upload larger images and it distorted this picture?? "

Posted by bandi Just upload to an image hosting site like flickr or photobucket.

crappy house


house in the shwa I think.........(first site with a member from here)

Hey i recognize that second picture haymaker. From Here isn't it?

thats the one. the house with boobies

Yep lol.

I remember you not having that many km's on it. How many you at now?