Infiltration

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	FOB... Does anyone know about these ? < on 9/15/2003 4:16 PM >

	A fob is an electronic security device. People will have a little key that they swipe over the scanner, and it verifies if they are allowed in and logs the entry. I know they use them at some apartment buildings, and the Fob controls the lock... Now, the UE part of this... I have been working on finding entry to a very cool target, and the only definite entrance is a big metal panel, bolted down and with a fob. The fob is the issue... I don't think it is hooked to a lock, I think it is just to log entries, but I don't know. So, does anyone have any experience with these devices ? It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

The Hitman's Daughter Account Closed location: ottawa, canada Gender: Female hot pavement. \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 1 on 9/15/2003 4:31 PM >

	i've worked in a lot of government buildings that use these. I think many hotels use them too, these days. I've had experience using them but i don't know how you'd get past one without a card. richellesart.com From now on and until the end of time, "Hip To Be Square" will conjure images of bloody bodies being hacked apart with axes.

Marx

location:
Marburg, Germany
Gender: Male

(1818-1883)

Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 2 on 9/15/2003 4:43 PM >

Posted by The Hitman's Daughter
i don't know how you'd get past one without a card.

That should be impossible. (Unless you consider breaking the door to be a good idea.)
[last edit 9/15/2003 11:45 AM by Marx - edited 1 times]

"The philosophers have already perceived the world in various ways; the point is to change it." -Karl Marx

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 3 on 9/15/2003 4:47 PM >

	Well, part of the confusion here is whether or not it is a locking fob or simply an entry logger. I don't think there's any way to tell without trying to open this... And would this send an alert to security ? It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

ReAct location: Northern Jersey... For now. Gender: Male \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 4 on 9/15/2003 4:53 PM >

	I'm not even going to ask (though I really want to) what kind of facility only has access through a single door that's bolted closed... That being said, I'm going to state the obvious: You should probably check out other points of entry. From a technical standpoint, there is not a thing in the world that would keep the key system from disabling the alarm. A lot of the key fobs I've seen do control locks and damn near all of them were hooked to a network that records information about the entry. What would I do? I'd examine the hell out of the whole faciltiy. Lacking in any other way to gain access I'd examine the hell out of this one bolted door, get any information you can about it's design and construction. Barring any new information that can be assertained simply from poking around, I'd probably get a ratchet and a Dewalt cordless drill fitted with a socket. I'd use the ratchet to crack loose all the bolts and then I'd use the Dewalt to remove them all quick as hell. If there are no audible or visual alarm indications (look for LEDs on the front of the key fob reader to change colors when this door is opened) I'd grab my tools and go hide out somewhere and watch the entrance for a while. If no one shows up to do anything about it, then I figure, safe enough, go to town. But there's also a common-sense factor here: If this is a goddamn active missile silo or some nonsense that you would expect to have very intense security (and it sounds like it might: a single bolted door) I might have to take much more active precautions, at the very least get two-way radios and post a lookout, something like that. Tread carefully! -ReAct "'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me." "That says '13.2kV.'" "Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...."

Ferret

location:
Toronto

Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 5 on 9/15/2003 5:03 PM >

Posted by Jester
A fob is an electronic security device. People will have a little *key* that they swipe over the scanner, and it verifies if they are allowed in and logs the entry. I know they use them at some apartment buildings, and the Fob controls the lock...

Now, the UE part of this... I have been working on finding entry to a very cool target, and the only definite entrance is a big metal panel, bolted down and with a fob. The fob is the issue... I don't think it is hooked to a lock, I think it is just to log entries, but I don't *know*.

So, does anyone have any experience with these devices ?

Yes, I've worked with this type of technology.
The fob, mag-card, etc. only carries a numeric code, usually unique. The reader references this code to a central security server, and that server then sends the appropriate response to the door (open lock or sound alarm). The reader itself does not unlock the door, merely relays the command from the security server to open the door.
Now, that is for the current technology. If they haven't been keeping their systems up to date, the reader may be a batch unit, that is that it carries the reference table itself. A batch unit will command the lock itself. This is a cheaper, older, less secure and more difficult to manage way to do it, but some companies don't like spending money to keep their systems up to date.

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 6 on 9/15/2003 5:16 PM >

	I'm pretty damn thorough in my scouting, and I've only got this and one other possible entrance. Neither is in that great a spot for concealment. The one in question I know for a fact is an entrance (though even when past the fob, it's going to be difficult) while the other option in all likelyhood is going nowhere... It's not active. There are no other entrances, and it's an underground complex... I'm pretty sure I've got it covered when it comes to not getting caught while checking it out. I do know a little bit about stealth after all... There are no visible lights on the thing at all. The two issues are... 1. Does it relay (realtime) to security when an unauthorized entry is attempted ? or does it just log it and next time they review it they see the attempts ? 2. If it's bolted shut, would the fob be a lock on top of that or just a logger ? The testing it out isn't what I want to do all that much... there is security and military around... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

MacGyver location: St Paul, Minnesota Gender: Male "Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater" \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 7 on 9/15/2003 5:17 PM >

	It wouldn't make sense for the company or whatever to use the keyfob only to record entries. If a disgruntled employee wanted to get in, they would just use their key and not scan their fob. If it only unlocked the door, there would be little point in using the fob over a plain old key. You can be pretty sure that the scanner both unlocks the door when someone with a fob on the authorized list swipes it as well as logging that activity on a computer somewhere. On campus, every dormitory and quite a few labs and other more secure buildings use the magnetic strip on the back of your student ID to open doors. When someone on the meal plan goes down to the dining center to eat, they scan their card to be admitted. Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine "If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent."

Chainsaw This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 8 on 9/15/2003 5:34 PM >

	Nothing a taser couldn't fix... Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 9 on 9/15/2003 5:40 PM >

	thanks for the input guys. It just seems odd to bolt down the entrance if there is a fob on it... No worry about disgruntled employees trying to get in, as they would be in their 80's by now... And just to get everyone wondering even more... First I need to avoid security/military in the area, then I need to get past the fob, then I need to do some climbing to get down into it, then I have the worry of lack of oxygen there, and finally if I was to want to do a FULL exploration of the place I would also require Scuba gear... The scuba part, just isn't gonna happen, but I still want to do the rest. I don't want to let this place defeat me... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

Malabaristo location: Eau Claire Wisconsin Gender: Male \| \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 10 on 9/15/2003 7:30 PM >

	Two questions: If the door is bolted shut, what makes you think the FOB is still functional? If it is working, you'd need some way of convincing it to unlock the door, correct? After re-reading the posts I notice you say "panel" not "door." That gives me the impression that the bolts are what keeps it closed (no other lock) and the FOB would de-activate a security system. If that security system is still there you're screwed, if not you're free to enter. Then again I might be totally wrong and you may set off a flame thrower when you unbolt the panel, who knows?

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 11 on 9/15/2003 7:37 PM >

	Yes, thats exactly what I've wondered. All the fob's I've heard about as of yet, have all been attached to a locking mechanism. This one, seems to me that the bolts are what keep people out. The fob is a fairly new thing on it. I'm most worried that if I take the bolts off and move the metal plate on the ground (about 5' x 3') that it will set of an alert to security (which may in fact be the military that would respond). If I take the bolts off and all that happens is I can't get in, at least I won't have MP's coming for me... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

Chainsaw This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 12 on 9/15/2003 7:38 PM >

	Military security, down here in the US anyway tend to use silent alarms for pretty much everything - good luck. Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Jester location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight... \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 13 on 9/15/2003 7:41 PM >

	I would expect it to be silent... But I wondered if, since it is bolted shut, that this may be just for logging entry. It states "all entries must be logged"... I'm probably gonna just have to bite the bullet and be prepared for some real fun covert op here maybe this weekend... If i'm not back within 24 hours, call the president... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

Chainsaw This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 14 on 9/15/2003 7:56 PM >

	If they installed the door scanner they must have installed some sort of sensor to go along with it. Unless they pulled a hard line they would have to install a panel to dial up and transmit the access logs to a central station - you need access to a panel to make a card scanner really do anything - considering a PIR usually runs about $15 they maybe just installed a motion sensor just inside the door. You don't install a $100 alarm panel and $100 card scanner without it being hooked up to some kind of sensor - though maybe it's just part of an upgraded fire system - hard to say - but be careful. Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

DarkTreader Gender: Male \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 15 on 9/15/2003 7:56 PM >

	Hmmm.... underground complex, near Vancouver or the surrounding area, full exploration requires SCUBA gear... something along the lines of an old submarine refitter? Or is it just something that flooded? It definitely sounds interesting. Makes me wish that I was over there with ya ~wipes tear~. If you're really worried about security, just uncap a couple of bolts, then run like hell... see if anyone comes in a 15 minute time period. If no one does, then continue working, stopping every once ina w hile to hop out, get some fresh air, and look for incoming hostiles. And a tazer would be a good idea except for that entire 'concealed weapon' thing... though I'm not sure how Canada's laws on that are. footsteps light, flashlights bright -~ DT Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen

Chainsaw This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male \| \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 16 on 9/15/2003 7:57 PM >

	It's not a weapon officer, it's just well, the regular vibrators don't do anything for me anymore... Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Ferret location: Toronto \|	Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ? <Reply # 17 on 9/15/2003 8:13 PM >

	Stupidly enough, these systems are not usually used for security, but for time and attendance tracking. It may not be connected to any kind of security system, but to someone's payroll system.

Jester

location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male

Always just out of sight...

Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 18 on 9/15/2003 8:39 PM >

Posted by Ferret
... It may not be connected to any kind of security system, but to someone's payroll system.

Sooooo, I should ask to be paid for my infiltration.

If it doesn't send info to a security, I'd be very pleased... This could be a very exciting experiment. Where to hide... where to hide.

It's not a sub base... it's just partially flooded.

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

Ferret

location:
Toronto

Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 19 on 9/15/2003 9:17 PM >

Posted by Jester

Posted by Ferret
... It may not be connected to any kind of security system, but to someone's payroll system.

Sooooo, I should ask to be paid for my infiltration.

Either that or someone is going to wonder why there is a little extra overtime on their cheque for a place they weren't in....

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