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741 online
Server Time:
2024-05-07 16:38:40
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 Jester
  
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
 |  |  | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 40 on 9/16/2003 7:04 AM >
|  | | | I had just been worried that it was a typical Fob, connected to alarm and or lock. But since all indications point to it not being like that, and simply there to log entries, then I'm happy happy happy 
Now I can move onto the other things I need to work on to make this happen... Still a lot of research/recon about security and the military presence nearby, and I do have the worry of oxygen content in this place, and... well, this mission has lots of little *issues* to deal with. The fob thing was the first hurdle, and I thank everyone thats helped.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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outage
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Gender: Male
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 41 on 9/16/2003 7:52 AM >
|  | | | If I might ask, why would a company install these devices on their manholes, as opposed to simply putting a human-readable serial number on the cover? The gas company where I live does the latter on their manholes.
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| |  | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 42 on 9/16/2003 2:26 PM >
| | | | I know many of the manholes around where I live have became overgrown, stuff ground into them, tarred over. It might be a more reliable way to read the # after 5 or 10 years or use then trying to find a serial # which in some cases could be impossible.
edit:spelinng
[last edit 9/16/2003 9:27 AM by Macsbug - edited 1 times]
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Ferret
 
Location: Toronto
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 43 on 9/16/2003 2:40 PM >
| | | | Posted by outage
If I might ask, why would a company install these devices on their manholes, as opposed to simply putting a human-readable serial number on the cover? The gas company where I live does the latter on their manholes.
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For the same reason that they use them in warehouses, to make sure that the human reading them has indeed gone to the right place, and has not misread the serial number. Also, if there is an issue where someone has gone to the wrong place, it makes it easier to find out where he went and correct what he did ("repairing" something that most commonly makes things worse).
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 44 on 9/16/2003 4:49 PM >
| | | | Looking over all the evidence and replies again, I've decided that the thing can't be part of security or unlock mechanism. I was wondering how thewires were run initially when I saw the pictures. It is likely used by workers that have a scanner/reader thing. They get to the site, wonder if this is the secret ninja submarine complex or the ordinary san sewer, and scan the doohickey on the lid to make sure. If there are several of these lids around, you could throw the guys for a loop by swapping two of them.
Go ahead and open it up at night with a crescent wrench and see what's beneath. If there's no wires connecting that name plate to anything else, no worries. Look for a normal kind of alarm (reed or magnet switches, motion detectors, etc) as well. I don't think you've got anything to worry about with the fob dealy-o.
Now get out there and open that thing up! I want pictures and a full report, soldier! You shall be debriefed tomorrow morning. Now get moving!
>_< Mochi, I don't touch people's underwear
[couldn't resist]
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 45 on 9/16/2003 5:17 PM >
| | | | Well, this is not a *wander in blindly* mission. I've got way too many factors to consider, and need a fairly decent size team to execute the mission. Be patient...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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j0lt
Location: Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 46 on 9/16/2003 5:40 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
So, does anyone have any experience with these devices ?
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While doing security at three different buildings downtown, I had many opportunities to use FOBs.
All the ones I used were set up so that when you held the little plastic keytag in front of the plate, a message would be sent to the electronic locking system's computer containing the FOB's ID. If that FOB was authorized to disengage the lock you were at, the computer would then turn off that lock for a few seconds.
Beyond actually having the right FOB, it's unlikely that this will be a good way in. And even with the FOB, it'll still be logged.
j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly! |
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Valiant Dancer
Location: Villa Park, IL
Gender: Male
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 47 on 9/16/2003 6:15 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Jester
I'm pretty damn thorough in my scouting, and I've only got this and one other possible entrance. Neither is in that great a spot for concealment. The one in question I know for a fact is an entrance (though even when past the fob, it's going to be difficult) while the other option in all likelyhood is going nowhere... It's not *active*. There are no other entrances, and it's an underground complex... I'm pretty sure I've got it covered when it comes to not getting caught while checking it out. I do know a *little bit* about stealth after all... There are no visible lights on the thing at all.
The two issues are...
1. Does it relay (realtime) to security when an unauthorized entry is attempted ? or does it just log it and next time they review it they see the attempts ?
2. If it's bolted shut, would the fob be a lock on top of that or just a logger ?
The testing it out isn't what I want to do all that much... there is security and military around...
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OK. Without seeing this unit and not being able to discern how old it is or the last time it was used, I would assume that the lock is wired to a security system realtime. Rarely will security systems that log break in attempts not relay them realtime to a security monitor.
Jimmying the door may get you in, but may also trigger sensors within the door that indicate that it has been opened. After that, it's fuzz city.
Bolted on top of a fob may indicate that the fob is connected to an inoperative piece of equipment. (Fob/door may alert but box that forwards alert to the security system has been powered off/removed years ago)
With a wholly underground complex, I have a distinctly military feel to that. Unless the system that it ran was discontinued years ago and the land is no longer owned by the military, I would assume the box is hot.
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Valiant Dancer
Location: Villa Park, IL
Gender: Male
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 48 on 9/16/2003 6:27 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
Thats all the info I have right there in those pictures. I was told it's a fob. Thats the extent of what I know...
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On further examination of the picture, It is a fob. You need a fob reader to find out what the id of the cover is. It's not a locking mechanism. It's used to identify where you are on the map. It is probably non-functional anyways.
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 49 on 9/16/2003 6:29 PM >
| | | | ^ the two posters (skipping one up) obviously haven't read the rest of the thread. It was determnined that the thing in question (of which jester posted pictures back a page or two) is actually a RFID tag. These tags can't send any info to anything else except RFID tag readers, which is a sort of scanner. RFID tags are like radio barcodes. You need a reader to be pretty much touching it in order to p0ick up the short amount of data stored within it.
This fob shouldn't have anything to do with security, but is merely a means of workers to scan and know they do indeed have the right lid.
Jester: patience, what is this patience you speak of??
edit: VDancer snuck one in while I was typing
[last edit 9/16/2003 1:31 PM by MacGyver - edited 1 times]
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 50 on 9/16/2003 7:48 PM >
| | | | The RFID devices I have worked with can olny hold 8 or 9 charecters (letter/number) and thats it. This is not much, and like everyone else said, just for identification, nothing else special.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 51 on 9/20/2003 7:56 PM >
| | | | FOB thing 1
Wraiths 0
The Fob turned out not to be the issue, it was the damn bolts ! I had failed to notice in my excitment, that the tops of them were all *mushroomed*, or smashed so you can't get the nut off... I won't just cut them off... Leaving it unsecured could cause injury to the public and I won't do anything like that...
But on the positive side, the other one of these structures I know of, that I thought was likely inaccessible, may indeed be a possibility. Again... more planning though...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 52 on 9/22/2003 4:16 PM >
| | | | Unless they are totally mashed up you might be able to get a gator-grip on em - works good for really badly stripped bolts...
http://gator-grip.com/
or a small hacksaw could cut a good straight groove throught the middle of them so you can use a flat-head screwdriver...
No stripped bolt would stand in my way...Recently picked up one of these:
Under $30 at Home Despot...
[last edit 9/22/2003 11:19 AM by Chainsaw - edited 1 times]
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 53 on 9/22/2003 4:36 PM >
| | | | It's not a stripped bolt. It's the end of the bolt itself, they smashed or melted the top end, so you turn the nut and get it to that section and can't continue. This is also in such a very public area, even at night after midnight, we had people around and coming by... We can't make noise, we can't use lights...
The thing that would fix this issue would be a tap and die(sp) set. So I could rethread the damaged part of the bolt itself. I'm not going to hacksaw the bolts off (not that we can because the noise of that will even be too loud), because this is too public an area, i'm also not willing to leave this with the potential for some kid to fall in and die.
We have not given up, I very rarely will give up... It is a work in progress...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 54 on 9/22/2003 4:41 PM >
| | | | Chainsaw and Jester are on different pages. Here's my amazing drawing that will clarify the matter and spread world peace in the process. It even opens bottles.
Jester's bolt is on the left, and Chainsaw's is on the right.
edit:
yo jester, so the threads are mostly just damaged rather than the whole top of the bolt being mushroomed over? That may indeed be fixable with a die. Can you get a picture of the worst one?
[last edit 9/22/2003 11:44 AM by MacGyver - edited 1 times]
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 55 on 9/22/2003 4:47 PM >
| | | | Krazy: You got the idea there, I don't have a close up of any of them, and it's over an hour drive to get there, so I won't have a pic soon... I don't have a tap and die set anyways, but may have to invest in one... They were fairly damaged, but I think could still be rethreaded (at least I hope so)...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 56 on 9/22/2003 4:51 PM >
| | | | If they aren't bad, the best bet is actually to just horse on the nut to get it off. You're far more likely to smooth the threads out with something that's already lined up than with a die that's starting from scratch. You might end up cutting new threads that don't line up with the old threads, and then you'd be all screwed up. no pun intended.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Avatar-X
  
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 57 on 9/22/2003 4:52 PM >
| | | | set up some pylons, wear safety vests and hard hats, carry clipboards, and look official while you cut the bolts
huskies - such fluff. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 58 on 9/22/2003 5:13 PM >
| | | | Only problem with that is, it'sright by a military compound, and all the public workers here have the nice GVRD vehicles... daytime we'd be busted in all of 5 minutes the place is extremely active, staff is around... really i need to steal GVRD vehicle then do this...*sigh*
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 59 on 9/22/2003 9:06 PM >
| | | | Ah, gotcha -- A hand-drill might be good too - just drill down though the middle with a bit almost as wide as the bolt - then horse it off - the threads should collapse into the hole you drilled or line up as the bolt remolds em... 1/2" on a steel bolt with a hand crank drill (no noise) ~5-10 minutes if you're really enthusiastic 1-2 minutes with an 18v cordless drill (lots of noise), about 10 seconds with a torch (very little noise - lots of light).
If you're real worried about someone falling in - just bring replacement bolts/nuts to install when you cut the originals off.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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