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867 online
Server Time:
2024-05-07 18:16:04
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 RevSM
  
Location: South Central Texas
 |  |  | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 20 on 9/15/2003 9:26 PM >
|  | | | Hey Jester, lets see some pictures already!  Even if it's just of the FOB and the plate it's self.
Tetanus for Breakfast!
http://www.shatteredshutter.com |
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Malabaristo
Location: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Gender: Male
| |  | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 21 on 9/15/2003 11:45 PM >
|  | | | I would really bet against the whole payroll thing, that's the sort of thing you put on a door that's commonly used. Not so much with a panel that's bolted shut. Can you imagine reporting to work every day by swiping you card and unbolting a panel?
The thing to do is figure out whether it still has power or not. Is there any way to open it with out damage? If so, take your trusty voltmeter and do some *careful* measuring. Having never taken one apart, I can't really be more specific than that. If you don't have the electronics knowledge, I would highly reccomend making friends with someone who does. They're handy people to have around.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 22 on 9/15/2003 11:48 PM >
|  | | | The thing is not old at all, so my money is on it definitely being active. Just what it is actually doing is the question.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 23 on 9/16/2003 1:27 AM >
| | | | Ok, here's the pics of the metal panel and the Fob. Nobody ramble on about "oh those panels are all over, they never go anywhere" because in this case I know for 100% sure that it goes to something (I'm just keeping *what* a secret for now).
But anyways... take a look fob-experts...
me and the best cover for snooping around, dogs are great for that. here's the whole panel...
the fob up close
[last edit 9/15/2003 8:28 PM by Jester - edited 1 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Ben
Noble Donor
Location: Mojave Desert
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 24 on 9/16/2003 1:29 AM >
| | | | Posted by Ferret
Yes, I've worked with this type of technology.
The fob, mag-card, etc. only carries a numeric code, usually unique. The reader references this code to a central security server, and that server then sends the appropriate response to the door (open lock or sound alarm). The reader itself does not unlock the door, merely relays the command from the security server to open the door.
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How is the code transmitted? Does it use induction in a coil to power a transmitter, or is it more aleng the lines of theft prevention devices that use a coil and a capacitor? Is there a difference between the thin, ID badge or credit card sized ones and the thicker key fob style?
I stayed at a place with these last weekend, and both of my last two jobs have used them. Incindentally, neither use it for payroll.
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Draggo
Location: Quesnel B.C., Canada.
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 25 on 9/16/2003 1:32 AM >
| | | | Hmmmm, underground, partially flooded, employees 80 years old. heh, I'm quite sure that I know what your talking about, I won't give anything away though.
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Ben
Noble Donor
Location: Mojave Desert
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 26 on 9/16/2003 1:57 AM >
| | | | Huh. I've never seen that type. Let us know how it goes.
From information in the picture, I'm guessing water infrastructure.
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 27 on 9/16/2003 1:58 AM >
| | | | yeah, just unbolt it and see what happens when you lift the lid. Id try setting the cover aside or propping it up, waving your arms around in the opening to set off any motion detectors, then climbing a tree or something nearby to watch for any security or cops to show up.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 28 on 9/16/2003 2:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by Wikkit
Huh. I've never seen that type. Let us know how it goes.
From information in the picture, I'm guessing water infrastructure.
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Ahhhh, but thats what they want you to think... I know better 
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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kowalski
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 29 on 9/16/2003 2:33 AM >
| | | | | me and the best cover for snooping around, dogs are great for that. |
As if we don't take flak from another quarters already, Jester's going to have PETA up in arms about urban explorers exploiting animals to further their dangerous, illegal hobbies.
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Malabaristo
Location: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 30 on 9/16/2003 3:13 AM >
| | | | Looking at the picture, does anyone else get the impression that what is on that plate is the tag, not the reader? It says, "confirm site identification on screen." So unless there's a magical screen somewhere not pictured, what you have is an ID tag. Whoever is entering would have a scanner that they hold up to it to make sure that the site ID matches their work order or whatever.
But that's going from the picture....
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 31 on 9/16/2003 3:15 AM >
| | | | Thats all the info I have right there in those pictures. I was told it's a fob. Thats the extent of what I know...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Malabaristo
Location: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 32 on 9/16/2003 3:30 AM >
| | | | right, but that's the FOB. The key. It's not actually connected to anything. I think.
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ReAct
Location: Northern Jersey... For now.
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 33 on 9/16/2003 3:33 AM >
| | | | One thing to consider is that because it specifically says it's a confined space, that would be hooked to a central monitoring system of some kind, at the very least a data log. I have a bit of confined space experience and while it doesn't make sense to have entry recorders on every single manhole, a lot of spaces under private control have, at the very least, a sign-in/sign-out sheet, so they know who was last in the space and if they got out safely. If this location is remote from whoever owns it, and it looks like it might be, than that information might be logged in a central office.
I'm not so sure what I think about the fact that that reader is located in the middle of a door that is secured only by bolts, no hinges. It's a very strange installation to say the least. Unless the damn thing is battery powered and works via radio transmittion, there has to be some hard wiring onto that door. For a door that could be completely picked up off it's mounting, it doesn't seem like the best idea that it should be tethered by wiring. So, that either means that something fishy is going on (like that card reader isn't actually operational) or it could just be shoddy workmanship.
Regarding what's written on that reader, while there's obviously not a screen anywhere close by, there are the instructions to place ...something... "here" as indicated by the arrow. It seems to me that normal operating proceedures would require the pass key or similar placed at the contact above that arrow in order to actuate... whatever. I think it's relatively safe to say that isn't designed to function as a stand-alone name plate. At the very least it's built as a cover for the actual reader which would be mounted directly underneith.
I don't know what you expect when you open this cover, maybe you don't either, but it sounds like you might. One thing you might do is get a decent flashlight and a nut driver. Take out two bolts on one side, loosen the two bolts on the other side. This will allow you to life the panel up enough to get a quick look undernieth it if you're close to the ground. Have a flashlight in hand, examine the bottom to see if anything is connected to that reader, examine the edges of the hole for any sort of contact or pressure switch that might be broken by the removal of the door, get a good look at the inside of the tunnel for any existant security measures. If you see something, you can just let the door backdown and in short order it could be reattached and you gone.
What it comes down to is the only way to find out what's behind the damn panel is to open the panel. (Surprise, surprise.) You could also easily drill out the pop-rivets that are holding down that card reader and remove it, but that's a good bit more destructive.
Keep us posted.
-ReAct
[last edit 9/15/2003 10:42 PM by ReAct - edited 1 times]
"'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me."
"That says '13.2kV.'"
"Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 34 on 9/16/2003 3:52 AM >
| | | | Yeah... the problem is I know what is under it, in terms of exploring. All being messed up by this little fob thing...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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ReAct
Location: Northern Jersey... For now.
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 35 on 9/16/2003 4:08 AM >
| | | | I'm telling you: Just get a nut driver and go for it. GO FOR IT! I'm almost beside myself with curiosty; damn near ready to take a road trip to open this blasted thing myself.
-ReAct
P.S.: Go for it. 
"'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me."
"That says '13.2kV.'"
"Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...." |
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Ferret
 
Location: Toronto
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 36 on 9/16/2003 4:15 AM >
| | | | I know what those are....
They're RF ID tags. They're a passive tag that when it is energized responds with a code similar to a bar code. The idea seems to be in this application that when someone is going down into that pit to service something, they will read the code in that tag with a hand held terminal to confirm that it is indeed the right hole.
These devices are passive not active, ie the don't respond to a reader unless activated, they have no memory and hold only the code they were programmed with to identify that spot, nothing more.
Here, read up on the technology a bit:
http://www.rf-id.com/rfidtech.htm
http://www.symbol.com/products/barcode_scanners/barcode_rf_id.html
http://www.asahi-techneion.co.jp/system/RF_ID/rfid.htm
http://www.businesssolutionsmag.com/Articles/1999_02/990208.htm
That button on the "fob" is the r/f id tag, and the writting on it seems to imply that a reader is to be used to confirm which hole that is. The information will be logged on the terminal used to read the tag, not the tag itself.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 37 on 9/16/2003 4:52 AM >
| | | | So, it's not an obstacle ? I'm gonna take your word for it Ferret...
Now I just have to worry about security of various types around this thing...
Must do some more planning...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 38 on 9/16/2003 5:00 AM >
| | | | If that is simply a passive RFID device, then you should have nothing to worry about. The only possible thing could be a reader for the RFID card inside the hole that would be able to tell when the card gets moved away from it, but this seems like a crappy security system as it would be a waste of money, and you could just take the card off carefully, and duct tape it inside the hole. This would work, becouse the reader would have to have a pretty strong signal to get through that steel? cover. But that is only if it is an RFID device, otherwise...
Edit: I looked at that picture again, and it doesnt look like tthe "thing" would have any wires running from it, it looks raised by a hair almost. Try running a peice of paper under it and seeing if it catches anywhere but where the bolts are.
[last edit 9/16/2003 12:06 AM by Macsbug - edited 1 times]
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Ferret
Location: Toronto
| | Re: FOB... Does anyone know about these ?
<Reply # 39 on 9/16/2003 6:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by macsbug
If that is simply a passive RFID device, then you should have nothing to worry about. The only possible thing could be a reader for the RFID card inside the hole that would be able to tell when the card gets moved away from it, but this seems like a crappy security system as it would be a waste of money, and you could just take the card off carefully, and duct tape it inside the hole. This would work, becouse the reader would have to have a pretty strong signal to get through that steel? cover. But that is only if it is an RFID device, otherwise...
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It's not a security measure, it's a work tracking device, to make sure service crews go down the right hole. The button style, like this one is, is a pretty early version of rf id tag, and is now considered obsolete (we threw ours out five years ago!). The button's were also extremely short range (ie close to contact), so you couldn't read one through the steel plate. Also, they did measure their life cycle in reads, so you wouldn't want to have a constant monitor on one, as that would greatly shorten the tag's life.
In technology terms, it's an antique, and one would be hard pressed to find a reader that works with it. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't other security measures, but I think Jester has plans for that scenario.
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