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 tekriter
 
Location: in the Hindu Kush
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
 |  | Infiltrators on TV
< on 1/10/2003 6:27 PM >
|  | | | I heard from a freind, that some "weird guys" in BC that "infiltrate" were on the news for some special interest story last night. Doing INTERVIEWS masked, with ninja suits on. Anybody know anything about that?
I had a reporter from the EU email me, but I never heard back from her.
What happens to a counter-culture/subculture when the mass media gets a hold of it? Anyone care to speculate? What if infiltration becomes "cool"? What then?
I think more buildings get boarded up, and more mainstream btitneys and slim shadys will be tagging our favorite haunts. And the forum will be poser time. there should be a rating for members : poser (no real infiltrations), britney (went somewhere dark), infiltrator, (self explanatroy), and narc (really a cop)
Two or three dozen freaks wandering around Ontario won't get noticed, but what if there were, say, two hundred? What happens when little bobby falls down a silo and CTV finds Infiltration.org still on his computer?
Is there always someone like me whining his weird passions becoming mainstream?
What do you guys think?
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen |
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Capone
Location: London, Ontario
Gender: Male
UEL
| |  | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 1 on 1/10/2003 6:45 PM >
| | | | Yeah, I heard about that story... I'm pretty sure it was the Wraiths group (wraiths.org I think is their site).
I have to agree with tekriter here though, it should be kept out of the media. Now arguably, one story isn't going to do much (there's been several in the past), but if it starts becoming mainstream all it will lead to is exactly what he said, all kinds of places being boarded up and a lot of posers and narcs.
If you're an infiltrator, you'll find your own information and explore regardless of the media. Keep UE with the UEers I say.
So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... |
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Nvr2loud
   
Man with the golden shoes
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 2 on 1/10/2003 6:50 PM >
| | | | Yes it was the wraiths out of BC, wish they hadn't done it, but oh well too late to stop them now. So let us discuss the future, please don't talk with the general media.... I'd hate to have 3 or 4 groups of people in the same building at the same time cause *that's the thing to do on saturday night*
However, I'd like to see the interview, anyone got a copy?
You can't be lost if you don't care where you are!
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Capone
Location: London, Ontario
Gender: Male
UEL
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 3 on 1/10/2003 7:11 PM >
| | | | I'd like see it as well...
According to their site, the Wraiths are going to put it up on their site asap.
So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| |  | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 4 on 1/10/2003 7:40 PM >
| | | | I might do an interview with the CBC... the reporter assured me that we would be well represented and stuff, but now that I hear about Ninj's experiences and stuff with the press, I'm not so sure. We were gonna be on this weird show called ZeD, they were even gonna film us doing an exploration into the O'Keefe Brewery.
Maybe I'll agree to a taped interview, but that's all, I think.
I agree, keep it "in the family" as it were. If it gets all mainstream, we might see our hobby get a lot more difficult than it currently is.
I too forsee a "little bobby" type incident. In fact we already saw one in australia where a little boy's death in a drain (he wasn't a UEer) was linked to the cave clan. This is a shakey time for us i think, since UE is getting more media attention, and the community is becoming more cohesive.
Hm. I fear.
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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Shokan
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
From Brantford? Msg me ICQ - 87253370
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 5 on 1/10/2003 8:07 PM >
| | | | Why bother giving interviews to the media? What good thing could possibly come out of it? Nothing. Unless you want money that the media will give to you for your story, then pervert it to thier own ends just so they have a new angle to present to their superiors.
"Punk kids invade empty buildings for kicks. We present the HORRIBLE HORRIBLE DANGERS involved with this so-called "hobby"....Next on CNN."
I beg anyone who is thinking about going to the media to please reconsider. No good will come of it. The media corrupts every news story they can get their filthy money grubbing hands on.
People who want to know about this pasttime will easily find it on the net. If they are interested, hey, join our little community. But to popularize it, and make it well known, will only cause people to do it out of something to do, not out of passion like I hope everyone here does. And that way, someone will get hurt. Maybe even die.
Excuse the Lord Of The Rings reference, but it applies here.
Keep it secret, keep it safe.
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Stalker
Location: Hamilton
Your Resident Red Commie Bastard
| | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 6 on 1/10/2003 9:02 PM >
| | | | Keep UE to yourself. I consider UE is related to history/archeology. If you didn't find something that will shake the world. Why even bother. It'll not do any good. Usually it make things worst. I don't want have our Mecca (Malt Plant) to be borded and even demolished because of some kid killed himself there.
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Scarab
Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male
The Ninja Suited "Weirdo"
| |  | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 7 on 1/10/2003 11:37 PM >
| | | | Well, as one of the "weird" guys who belongs to the group in Vancouver, I agree and disagree with you. Yes, it should not be subjected into popular culture. Just what we need is the next Britney Spears doing a video crawling through the sewers. However, people DONT just go to the web to check out UE. They take heresay and rumor and then they decide that with a clean pair of underwear and a hat they are ready for UE. these are the kids that will get killed. So i think it is not a bad thing to mention that it exists, that it is dangerous, and that in some activities illegal. By the way, this is also the reason for the "weird" masks. We infiltrate places where there are video cameras and armed security guards. A mask and an outfit to avoid detection is a key thing. We also go to areas where detection is slim, in these areas we dont bother with the outfits. there is method to our madness.
So I say, yes some media covereage will help accidental and stupid deaths/injuries. and Yes, I agree that a mass coverage followed up by a feature film is not the way to go either. The last thing I want to run into while treking underground is some yuppies having a "garden" party. "Excuse me, do you have any grey poupon?"
And just out of curiousity, you complain about us having been in a special interest story, but I notice in another discussion 2 guys are talking about being student film makers and they want to make a movie. hmmm..... no complaints over there. So Media is a no, and film is a yes. gotcha. Guess I should send that screenplay to Spielberg huh?
[last edit 1/10/2003 6:56 PM by Scarab - edited 0 times]
"The whisper in the wind is us ... ... the swearing in the bushes as we fall is not admitted to...." |
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Shokan
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
From Brantford? Msg me ICQ - 87253370
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 8 on 1/11/2003 2:48 AM >
| | | | The media almost always try to find some angle, truthful or not, that they can use to make to the news.
Film students tend to just tell it like it is.
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Avatar-X
 
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 9 on 1/11/2003 4:55 AM >
| | | | You all make very good points. What really has to be looked at is: What's best for the community? Things like Infiltration Magazine which help tell our stories, websites to display where we've been and what we've done.
The media always has these "special interest" stories... they run them for one reason and one reason only: ratings. You think the news people care if you crawl in a sewer? No way.
The average "Joe Public Teenager" who listens to eminem or whatever will either have the attitude, upon seeing the news, "who the hell cares about old buildings", or, "i want to do that" but then chicken out when the time comes.
I don't think we have to fear this becoming very "mainstream" -- it's not like this is a new fad, like people only started exploring buildings a few years ago.
huskies - such fluff. |
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matt ecksion
Location: Guelph
Gender: Male
back in black
| | |  | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 10 on 1/11/2003 5:03 AM >
| | | | wraiths are one of the sweetest groups ever.
no one bitched about UEC's radio broadcasted infiltration.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 11 on 1/11/2003 6:38 AM >
| | | | There have been other UE stories on the news, and last I checked I haven't seen a crowd of tourist wannabes in the buildings we've infiltrated... Out of all the mail I get, by FAR the most common comment I get is "wow, thats really cool, I could never do something like that..." far less people ask anything about how to get into it.
There are lots of extreme sports and hobbies, and they do have stories televised about them, but they don't become mainstream. UE is a little too far off the norm for that to occur. Yes it is interesting, so people will read and view it, but generally from the chair in their livingroom...
And I seriously doubt that many "little Bobbys" were wasting their time at 11:25 pm on sunday night to watch the newshour final... and if they are, they are most likely more level headed than the typical kid that couldn't care less about world events enough to watch the news...
And about why we did it the tv story... same reason we do UE... because it's fun. If we wanted it to be unknown, none of these pages would exist... if you make a page for this you want it to be seen, plain and simple. if thats not what you want, write your exploits in a journal, seal it and bury it in the woods, tell nobody and take that secret to your grave. I like to show people what i've seen. Lets the people see what they wouldn't get to see otherwise. I take the risks, they don't have to. I also warn of the dangers and do not encourage taking up this hobby.
And the comment about money for a story ? There is no compensation for being part of a news story. nothing, but getting to see your story told. No, i'm lying, shoot I musta made a cool 12 million off that story... but ssshhhh don't tell the other Wraiths, they'll want some of it...
Jester
gonna keep going places they tell us not to...
www.wraiths.org
[last edit 1/11/2003 1:49 AM by Jester - edited 0 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 12 on 1/11/2003 7:11 AM >
| | | | I vote the best extreme sport to be....
*drumroll*
What THESE guys are doing!
Some highlights:
No, it's not a joke.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Stong
Location: Underneath Calgary, Alberta
Gender: Male
Nearly UER's longest time member...
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 13 on 1/11/2003 7:31 AM >
| | | | On the topic of extreme sports, check out "Extreme Ironing", it's a british thing. Anyhow.
Sure the masks were dorky, but some people like to protect their identity, and that's fine by me. If anything, the whole mask/camo dealy will turn the kids off of UE, which is kinda what we want. Only the VERY interested will research further.. and that's fine. Only a few will find it their thing and start. Plus isn't it cool to see someone you share much in common with doing your thang on the commercialism box? Ah hell.
I'm encoding the videos for the wraiths, I'm sending them to him tonight so you'll be able to check it out tomorrow. I'll do a low quality and a high quality.
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Shokan
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
From Brantford? Msg me ICQ - 87253370
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 14 on 1/11/2003 10:38 AM >
| | | | I guess being on TV is really important to some people.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 15 on 1/11/2003 6:01 PM >
| | | | Shokan... Cave clan has been in the media tons, UEA has been on CTV, Max Action of ActionSquad has been in a few publications, VEG was in Macleans magazine, Ninjalicious here has been in print, as well as having his zine which is media, so should Infiltration zine be stopped ? is it an affront to the spirit of UE ? The internet is a form of media, so why is it fine for "little Bobby to surf on and see it and go and try it ? because he found it on the internet instead of seeing it on tv it's ok ? Your arguements hold little value, but much hypocricy... one form of media is fine, another is going to destroy UE... right... For your points to hold any validity, you should be advocating Everything that shows UE to the public be stopped. Oh no, you posted about UE on a PUBLIC website... better STOP before you RUIN it for ALL OF US ! think of poor little Bobby...
Hell no. There have been plenty of UE stories; newspaper, magazine, tv, documentary, and there WILL BE MORE. It hasn't changed it yet, and I don't forsee it changing it anytime soon.
Very few people . simply due to boredom, would say "hey, maybe I should go crawl into a disgusting tunnel filled with muck and spiderwebs..." You do have to have a real interest to get off your ass and go out looking for a place to explore... And if someone has real interest, that makes them the same as us...
Jester
going places they tell us not too
(and televising it for your enjoyment Shokan)
www.wraiths.org
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shokan
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
From Brantford? Msg me ICQ - 87253370
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 16 on 1/11/2003 7:52 PM >
| | | | True, the internet is a form of media, but generally speaking, its unregulated. No one stands to profit from making websites like this one. Hobby websites just get put up to attract others of the same interests, and possibly find other people in the same area who are into the same thing, and hook up and do something together. Hell, I'm meeting some people from UEL tomorrow, because of this website.
I think you're trying to clump every single form of media out there together, somehow thinking they are all the same. Ninj's zine, and the CBC are hardly the same. True they have similar aspects, but their differences are much more diverse.
"There have been plenty of UE stories; newspaper, magazine, tv, documentary, and there WILL BE MORE. It hasn't changed it yet, and I don't forsee it changing it anytime soon."
Well, I see a possiblity of it changing. Its still pretty underground, so to speak. But if it gets out so every soccer mom knows about it, then it will change. Most likely for the worst. And I don't think thats a very good idea.
I'm not saying we should all just shut our mouths, and swear ourselves to secrecy. But have a little common sense about who you share your stories with. Ultimately, its the individual's choice. I personally, wouldn't talk about it to anyone except a few friends and family members. Going on TV, or giving interviews to newspapers, just doesn't interest me. It would be the same if I built model airplanes. Its my hobby, my pasttime. I'm not going to run to the media and say "Look! I make airplanes!! Yay!!" because I just can't see any point to getting it out in the public eye.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 17 on 1/11/2003 8:12 PM >
| | | | Just because you know something exists, does not mean you will do it. I'm sure we could name off hundreds of hobbies if we think about it, but strangely we aren't participating in them all are we ?
A very good example is ghost hunters. EVERYONE knows of "ghosts" and many believe in them. Yet a very very small percentage of people that have seen a special about it will ever go looking... but, if i use your same arguement of something being known and seen in the evil media (tv, news) becoming commonplace then why aren't there line ups of people trying to look around the "haunted houses" ?
If UE was very simple, cleaner, and less risky, people would emulate it more. But it's not. Typical people will not try it. Never underestimate the laziness of the masses.
There are examples of the benefit of it being known as well, where explorers have run into security and told them who they were and the guy had heard of it and thought UE was cool, and helped them check something out.
I'm not saying everyone should do an interview, definitely not. But I enjoyed doing it, and would do it again. We did not have a bad experience with the media at all. Nor have we experienced any other negative repercussions. Even the sites they mentioned in the story, have not changed...
[last edit 1/11/2003 3:34 PM by Jester - edited 0 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Nvr2loud
Man with the golden shoes
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 18 on 1/11/2003 8:57 PM >
| | | | Forgive us for being so paranoid, we just don't want to attract too much attention. I fear more police officers, public employees, security guards, or building owners, or even neighbours around some of these sites becoming more aware of what we are doing. I fear they will pay more attention to the locations themselves, punishments may be heavier. Like I said earlier, it is too late for the Wraiths, they already did the interview, so lets move on. Hopefully they had fun, hopefully the story is good media coverage for us (if that's possible) but again, lets talk about the future. I believe several of us will be approached at some point to give an interview, please just be careful what you say. It is evident that reporters mis-quote, so TV interviews are slightly safer then written articles. Use common sense when dealing with reporters, they have their own agendas. Don't be so harsh on the Wraiths, they've already done the interview, it has already aired, they seem to be a well organized and focused group.... at the least infiltration was well represented, isn't it better then a bunch of vandals with spray paint saying "Man abandonned places rock dude, we can smash stuff and smoke up and shit"
I like the above quote "never under-estimate the laziness of the masses" cause I'm not so afraid of people trying this activity, I'm afraid of the average idiot becoming aware of this activity.
You can't be lost if you don't care where you are!
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Infiltrators on TV
<Reply # 19 on 1/12/2003 6:54 AM >
| | | | The reason i don't fear all these abandoned places getting more cops and security around is simple, Time and Money... I used work in a store that got held up pretty regularly at gun or knife point, and still we barely got any more patrol cars driving by. So because somebody goes into an abandoned building, I don't think they're going to bother doing a hell of a lot differently because of seeing the story on the news... Of course there will be excpetions, I would expect Riverview hospital out here to take more spins by the abandoned buildings on the property becaus they were actually mentioned in the story. But most places in general, probably not gonna make a lick of difference...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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