|
blackhawk
  
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
 |  |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 40 on 6/22/2006 9:08 PM >
|  | | | Posted by tag_cryptic
stick to your penal codes if you will. the rest of us have exploring to do.
|
Sorry I don't take advice from youngin's unless thier real smart for their age. Your not. You didn't understand a word I said. You can learn the hard way. You remember that, hear?
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
shiroi
    
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 41 on 6/23/2006 1:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Take the ride. then tell about it. |
If "taking the ride" means getting caught and/or arrested, I've done both. I know the consequences, and I'm sure everyone else does to. If I cared I wouldn't really be responding like this. :/
I like exploring through means like this just for the fact that I'd be doing it that way. I don't mean to offend, but maybe you shouldn't be doing any of this if you're worried so much. Sit back, take in the good experience; if that good experience is not worth the risk, don't do it.
|
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 42 on 6/23/2006 1:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by shiroi
If "taking the ride" means getting caught and/or arrested, I've done both. I know the consequences, and I'm sure everyone else does to. If I cared I wouldn't really be responding like this. :/
I like exploring through means like this just for the fact that I'd be doing it that way. I don't mean to offend, but maybe you shouldn't be doing any of this if you're worried so much. Sit back, take in the good experience; if that good experience is not worth the risk, don't do it.
|
There are more than one ways to skin a cat. What your telling me isn't one of them.
If an experienced trail attorney can not tell you what the outcome will be, how can you know? There is more than one member here that have "retired" due to legal complications. Repeat offenders are often treated as such. Penalties can be severe, and most lawyers want a grand+ retainer for criminal cases for starters. Many states have amended their trespass laws in response to eco-terrorist. It's hard to endorse intentionally breaking the law to this degree as a hobby if your incurring misdemeanor/felony charges doing it. If you don't value your money, freedom, and good name, by all means go hog-wild. It's a lick on you.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
shiroi
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 43 on 6/23/2006 2:00 AM >
| | | | I guess it is, isn't it? Have fun with whatever hobby you do, and I'll have fun with mine.  Peace out my brotha'.
|
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 44 on 6/23/2006 2:10 AM >
| | | | Posted by shiroi
I guess it is, isn't it? Have fun with whatever hobby you do, and I'll have fun with mine. Peace out my brotha'.
|
I still do what I do. Sometimes it's easier and far more productive to ask the police rather than get arrested by the same. Some things are best kept to one's self, and what started this thread I believe falls in this category. The US is not like it was before 911; learn so you don't get burned. No joke or offense intended.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 45 on 6/26/2006 1:59 AM >
|  | | | Blackhawk, I get it. In fact, I'm pretty sure we all get it: I don't know what I am risking doing stuff like this, It's utterly ridiculous that I would even think of it, it was horrible of me to post this on UER, and I am going to jail and or prison. I think that sums up what your messages collectively say. Thanks for the input.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
|
MindHacker
location:
Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 46 on 7/2/2006 4:14 AM >
| | | | Yay balls! (Imagine I said it in a very un-homosexual way (note to ethics cops: not that i have any issues with queers.).
I almost went in through a roof vent once, but once I opened it, I heard fans. They scared me off, as I have seen some in mechanical rooms that would eat me for breakfast, or whatever meals that they have.
As for the money-ascender deal, if you're poor like me, prussik/klemherst. The spelling is close, the knot is cheap and WILL hold.
Re: vents: The big ones should hold your weight (they already hold thier own...), I went through one once, and they tend to be loud. As always, weight to the outside edges, gently distributed.
Most of what I was gonna say was said by horus / shiori and the ilk. Thx.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
|
Blue90
location:
TN
Shiny.
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 47 on 7/6/2006 5:20 AM >
| | | | Wow.
props man, i hope to be able to do that someday.
i can see why you folks argue over the ethics, risks, and such, but keep in mind that life is all about the experiences, and you must balance risk and prudence, just like in everything else.
you don't need me to tell you this, though, you need to learn it on your own.
p.s. legal encounters do suck, but i don't regret my choices before that point.
This is the way the world ends. |
|
Urbandruid
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 48 on 7/6/2006 10:34 AM >
| | | | Wow, congratulations on your successful infiltration. There are some genuine safety issues to be concerned with though, whenever entering though air conditioning that I think was the main question you began with that no one has mentioned. A lot of airconditioning units on rooftops are not attatched, as they are heavy, and sit on a form that they fit on. The first hazard is that it may be too heavy to wrangle it back to where it was. Make sure you have the muscle power with you to get it back in place. Second, the form that they sit on is generally raised from the rest of the roof surface, and could suddenly shift and squish something. Third, sometimes, there are large fans beneath them. These fans are often industrial and you simply will not be able to get past them without REALLY breaking something (which could be you). But, lastly, and most importantly, these large units are almost all run on gas of some sort. Shifting the unit at all could potentially disrupt that flow of gas. Messing with propane et. al. is extremely dangerous. Most of the gas lines have valves on them though, so for the love of Gaia, shut off the gas!
Blackhawk, with all due respect to your generally useful posts, and at the trepidation of being a newb to the boards, unless you are very special, and have a millions connections, if you UE at all, you are breaking the law. It is not always possible to get permission to view some sites, no matter how nice you are. If that is where you draw your personal line, I respect that, as it is your ass on the line. If other people are willing to take a few more risks knowing full well the consequences that those risks entail, it's thier ass on the line; haranguing them repeatedly is no longer giving advice, but trying to impose your moral code on them.
This must have been an incredible site to make it worth all the trouble. It could have been an arena, or some sort of entertainment complex we'd all love to see. They simply aren't going to let you into the off limits area during the hours when they are open. Again, grats on your conquest.
Reality is just a crutch for those who can not deal with their own fantasies. |
|
Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 49 on 7/6/2006 3:21 PM >
| | | | Urbandruid, those are definitely some things that I didn't know about AC units, thanks for the advice. This one was bolted down though, it wasn't going anywhere. This wasn't a very large unit, I'm pretty sure it didn't run on gas.
Yeah, it was a really cool site, but in all honesty I think I am done posting new info in this thread. It's not seeming to be productive anymore. Thanks for the advice though, I didn't know that about AC units.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 50 on 7/6/2006 9:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by Urbandruid
Wow, // shut off the gas!
Blackhawk, with all due respect to your generally useful posts, and at the trepidation of being a newb to the boards, unless you are very special, and have a millions connections, if you UE at all, you are breaking the law. It is not always possible to get permission to view some sites, no matter how nice you are. If that is where you draw your personal line, I respect that, as it is your ass on the line. If other people are willing to take a few more risks knowing full well the consequences that those risks entail, it's thier ass on the line; haranguing them repeatedly is no longer giving advice, but trying to impose your moral code on them.
This must have been an incredible site to make it worth all the trouble. It could have been an arena, or some sort of entertainment complex we'd all love to see. They simply aren't going to let you into the off limits area during the hours when they are open. Again, grats on your conquest.
|
Read all my posts in this thread. If that site is not abandoned, that's B&E, a felony offense. Morals my a$$. As for the pics, thet're good enough to ID at least one of whoever is in them.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 51 on 7/7/2006 1:21 AM >
| | | | Blackhawk, please, I'm asking you, don't give any more advice about B&E in this thread, it's the same thing you've been saying. It was an active site, but in my state at least, even if it hadn't been it would've been B&E. I'm not pretending that I know near as much as you about the law, because I don't, but I do know the risks involved in this and what's at stake; there is a lot more at stake for me than the average person actually. As for ID'ing the person in the pic, how would they do that if his face wasn't in any police records (which it isn't) and why would anyone take the time, since no harm was done? Really, you know a lot more than a lot of people on this board, and you have a lot of great advice to give, but in this thread you're just repeating yourself.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 52 on 7/7/2006 1:33 AM >
| | | | Posted by Chronos
Blackhawk, please, I'm asking you, don't give any more advice about B&E in this thread, it's the same thing you've been saying. It was an active site, but in my state at least, even if it hadn't been it would've been B&E. I'm not pretending that I know near as much as you about the law, because I don't, but I do know the risks involved in this and what's at stake; there is a lot more at stake for me than the average person actually. As for ID'ing the person in the pic, how would they do that if his face wasn't in any police records (which it isn't) and why would anyone take the time, since no harm was done? Really, you know a lot more than a lot of people on this board, and you have a lot of great advice to give, but in this thread you're just repeating yourself.
|
I was directly addressed, and I choose to clarify. You remember my first post on this thread? Need to know. Ain't nothing to me...
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
rainman8889
 
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 53 on 7/7/2006 2:36 AM >
| | | | Okay, I believe I read Urbandruid's post correctly so I will point out a couple of suggestions made:
Turning off the gas, shifting A/C units etc...
Now we're adding the lack of common sense here. Screwing with active equipment (especially when you're not qualified) is a very bad idea which does not make all the really cool pics worth the consequences.
I'm not talking about ethics here (already mentioned). I'm talking safety. Safety for the explorer, safety for the people using the building and safety for the people who have to come in and repair the equipment that was affected during an infiltration like this.
Turning off the gas and possibly disconnecting a line. What happens after the exploration is done? Can you reconnect a gas line properly? What happens if the connections are damaged? Put it back together, turn the gas back on and leave. The connections don't seal properly, gas leak results and then BOOM! with potentially deadly consequences.
Shifting an A/C unit and then not putting back properly? Then the workers who have to put it back risk their lives while putting it back. And the wiring...
Last but not least, if something gets damaged while being messed around with, that would cost the owner of the building a pile of cash to fix and the cost of lost business while the repairs are being made.
To sum up my long winded post here: Entering through the A/C is a very bad idea!
[last edit 7/7/2006 2:37 AM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
|
CaptOrbit
 
location:
Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 54 on 7/7/2006 4:27 AM >
| | | | I’ve sat here and read 3 pages of this , it’s time for my Two cents.
The way I see it every potential mission is a balancing act.
Pros: The site was pre-scouted and assessed,, both while active and at night. proper climbing gear was used ( I assume) Care was taken not to damage the HVAC equipment. Only a few non-complex components were moved. They had a look-out posted to minimize risk. The HVAC unit was put back in original order, and they even cleaned up after themselves.
Cons: Any active site could be considered b&e (try and convince the police otherwise) HVAC equipment is often complex and potentially dangerous to non-qualified personnel. Even though this list is shorter I personally give the active status of the building a lot of weight.
It has to be a judgment whether or not the mission is a go. Some people would take a look at the above list and scrub, others would say it’s worth the risk, and still others would reserve judgment until the got a look at the site in person.
All UE, even ones done with permission are about calculated risk. Any and all judgment MUST be done by a rational, knowledgeable, person who has a clear idea of potential consequences , legal or otherwise.
ps The above lists are not necessarily complete, just highlights chosen for illustration purposes.
[last edit 7/7/2006 4:29 AM by CaptOrbit - edited 1 times]
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
|
'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 55 on 7/7/2006 6:09 AM >
| | | |
To sum up my long winded post here: Entering through the A/C is a very bad idea!
|
WHat are you some sort of judge jury and executioner? Typical UER judgemental bullshit. I thought this forum was about exploring.
I'm going to start a forum where you rape kill pillage and burn and no one says shit.
And if they do I'm going to shout them down as a pussy.
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
|
Urbandruid
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 56 on 7/7/2006 7:47 AM >
| | | | Yes, felony bad, I understand. And I am not even implying that I would do it myself Blackhawk. My only point is that I am pretty sure that everyone and their grandma's on this board understand that. My point was that they knew the risk they were taking, and nothing you were saying was going to change thier minds that it was worth the risk. I have a fairly good short list of the type of place that they wanted to explore, and this is a far fsr different type of thing than dropping into the local electronics superstore. As an instance of the morality of this, is exploring off limits parts of say, that really cool ass City Hall in Toronto also just totally out of the question? I mean, anyone caught there off limits now is going to be in for a potential shit storm legally (especially now that the terrorists even hate Canada). BUT, I argue that the intention of wanting to explore that building, as far as most UErs go, is perfectly moral.
Rainmann, we are actually in agreement here. These were not actual suggestions being made by me. The original question was just about the potential dangers of this sort of infiltration. I only pointed out the immediate dangers, but every single thing that you said is absolutely valid. I tried to make it very plainly understood that messing with these beasts is a bad idea. I would make exceptions for someone who really did know what they were doing, and brought the right equipment, but seriously, how many UErs are HVAC technicians in their daily life? My conclusion. It was a cool infiltration, they were successful. No one got hurt, and they put it all back just the way they found it. But my advice to UErs in general, don't mess with those machines, it's just too dangerous.
Dukes.... Wow. Just wow. It is an EXTRAORDINARILY bad idea, unless you really do the research, and have the proper knowledge and tools. I can understand your frustration, but seriously, you only burn bridges by posting like that. I have only been on the boards just a short while, but I am pretty sure that most people will agree that a well reasoned debate will get you a lot further here than just blowing up.
Reality is just a crutch for those who can not deal with their own fantasies. |
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 57 on 7/7/2006 3:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by Urbandruid
Yes, felony bad, I understand. And I am not even implying that I would do it myself Blackhawk. My only point is that I am pretty sure that everyone and their grandma's on this board understand that. My point was that they knew the risk they were taking, and nothing you were saying was going to change thier minds that it was worth the risk. I have a fairly good short list of the type of place that they wanted to explore, and this is a far fsr different type of thing than dropping into the local electronics superstore. As an instance of the morality of this, is exploring off limits parts of say, that really cool ass City Hall in Toronto also just totally out of the question? I mean, anyone caught there off limits now is going to be in for a potential shit storm legally (especially now that the terrorists even hate Canada). BUT, I argue that the intention of wanting to explore that building, as far as most UErs go, is perfectly moral.
Rainmann, we are actually in agreement here. These were not actual suggestions being made by me. The original question was just about the potential dangers of this sort of infiltration. I only pointed out the immediate dangers, but every single thing that you said is absolutely valid. I tried to make it very plainly understood that messing with these beasts is a bad idea. I would make exceptions for someone who really did know what they were doing, and brought the right equipment, but seriously, how many UErs are HVAC technicians in their daily life? My conclusion. It was a cool infiltration, they were successful. No one got hurt, and they put it all back just the way they found it. But my advice to UErs in general, don't mess with those machines, it's just too dangerous.
Dukes.... Wow. Just wow. It is an EXTRAORDINARILY bad idea, unless you really do the research, and have the proper knowledge and tools. I can understand your frustration, but seriously, you only burn bridges by posting like that. I have only been on the boards just a short while, but I am pretty sure that most people will agree that a well reasoned debate will get you a lot further here than just blowing up.
|
No not everyone, and there grandma know that. Few 18 YO kids know how bad a felony conviction will fuck up their lives. You have a few that are younger than that. The parents of those kids, are going to be held responsible for the damages if their kid decides to try it, and screw up. Gets perished maybe. Which would be easy to do.
Wether you do R&D, or not, it's a stupid idea, and a very illegal one. 'Dukes has been on this site, and earth a whole lot longer than you. Walk many more miles in hostile places than you.
Sorry, but entering an active site through the HVAC unit is a shitheaded idea to do, it's even worse to have done it, and positively a 'masterpiece' to post it on the internet (with pics). dah. Can't wait for the made for TV movie.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
|
|
Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 58 on 7/7/2006 7:33 PM >
| | | | BH, for a lot of people it would be a bad idea and I guess I should have put some sort of "Don't try this at home" disclaimer on this thread, but really, it's over, no harm done to anything, virtually undetected and immaculate till I posted it here. Why would anyone care enough to investigate and press charges? That being said, why was my doing this a bad idea? I knew what I was doing and what I was getting myself into; here's a little background on myself to let you know where I'm coming from, I'm a college student on a full ride scholarship. I work part time at an airport and I plan on going into a job with the CIA (yes, this is a realistic career plan, I know the path to get me there, I'm not just saying "Ooohh, I wanna be a secret agent") If I were to get a felony charge of B&E, guess what? Goodbye good college, goodbye scholarship(s), goodbye easy airport job, and goodbye aspirations of working for the government at all. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I know the risks, there is a lot at stake for me. Knowing all of that, don't you think, if I thought there was any chance whatsoever of getting that felony charge, I wouldn't have done it? So please understand that I must have been pretty dang sure that everything was going to go well to have done this. It was not a bad idea, I think the best evidence for this is the fact that only three people who know me personally know it happened, and they were there. No harm done. No reason for anyone to even suspect it happened.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
|
shiroi
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 59 on 7/7/2006 10:34 PM >
| | | | Now I bet he's going to reply with
"But everyone doesn't know the consequences, that's why I'm here. I repeat and I repeat despite that everyone that reads this thread didn't care long ago. If only I knew how to not post a come back so that I have the last word. I think you're just child, and you're my student; so sit down and listen to what I have to say, because I am, without a doubt, much smarter and older than you. I know the teaching of yore and present them to a thread that doesn't need anymore of it. I refuse to make my own thread of safety and complain there, because I can just keep ruining this one. My posts are all just hackneyed critism of someone who thinks there's only black and white, and I know I'm always white!
But seriously, you should know the dangers and the law behind all of this. I preach things on a website that is about doing illegal things in the first place. I would never ever do anything illegal, because everything I do is the smartest thing a person can do. If you have a response to this post, I will only give a bull rebuttal without even reading your post. How do I give a bull rebuttal? Simple, just give this message with the words switched around.
P.S.: Everyone should know the law behind all of this. The dangers, not everyone knows it. There are laws behind this that can screw you. Don't you want to think of your future? The laws will screw you a new hole if you don't take them into consideration. Just thought you should know...again."
Thank you Mr. Blackhawk, please stop ruining this guys's thread of something very cool he did.
|
|
Powered by AvBoard AvBoard version 1.5 alpha
Page Generated In: 140 ms
|
|
Ethics