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Chronos
 
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 20 on 6/21/2006 12:51 AM >
|  | | | Posted by 'Dukes
I don't mean and don't want this to devolve into an ethics flame fest, I just think that "where do you draw the line " is a pretty important question.
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I agree, that is a very important question. Where do we draw the line? I draw the line when my exploration could potentially take away from someone else's property, happiness, or peace of mind. You don't UE a person's house, no matter what your intentions are, because that's personal property and knowing somone invaded your personal property or home is very unsettling. Same with a business, someone is responsible for the safety and security of that site and knowing somone infiltrated it could be very psychologically unsettling. That's why, in general, I don't UE active sites. However, this was not a store, this was not a warehouse, and this was not a privately owned building. There was no manager or anyone who would feel like they were directly responsible for the building's safety and security. I don't think, in the almost negligible circumstances that could have gotten us caught, anyone would even be bothered by knowing we were in there, annoyed maybe, but they would quickly forget about it.
It was a great site.
BH, to me, it is a question of ethics foremost. Would some people have cost a lot of people time and money by trying this? Yes. But I'm not those people. If it's simply a question of common sense and risk vs reward, than to me it's not a question. It was well planned, well executed and immaculate.
[last edit 6/21/2006 12:55 AM by Chronos - edited 1 times]
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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'Dukes
   
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 21 on 6/21/2006 12:59 AM >
|  | | | appreciate the honest answer; doesn't sound "active" like I would imagine it.
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 22 on 6/21/2006 2:52 AM >
| | | | There was a burglar who tried to break into a restaurant just like this and he was stuck in the vents until the restaurant owner came into the store the next day and found him. Don't become that guy
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nohbdy
 
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 23 on 6/21/2006 3:44 AM >
| | | | i view it like this, someone owns it and is using it for their own means, you entered it through the means of a felony that could be seen as even worst due to the perp work you did
im all for exploring but not buildings that are active and outside of their business hour, if i was the owner i would be very mad (to say the lest) to find someone who broke into my building, and i would press charges.
how would you feel if you found someone "exploring" in your house?
edit: wrong words
[last edit 6/21/2006 3:46 AM by nohbdy - edited 2 times]
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tag_cryptic
location:
colorado springs
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 24 on 6/21/2006 3:51 AM >
| | | | chronos, it sounds like you have your shit together. simply put, i am impressed. don't mind the initial backlash from some members. i think statements like 'you give us a bad name', 'your pics of some guy's feet are evidence', and 'never do it again' are bullshit.
has anyone thought urban exploration is not a static endeavor? please, let's not bring someone down for repelling down an ac vent. when sidler dropped the word "terrorist" i immediately cringed, but sadly he's right. more than once a cop has warned me [emphasis on warned] off an active site for sake of terrorism-related concern. i think most of us here are a few wmd's short of deserving this concern. my point is, maybe soon all infiltration will be seen as highly illegal. the illusion of security will only become more frenetically enforced and were will ue stand?
that said, i think chronos' post is a perfectly fitting example of ue because jaunts like this inspire others to take risks in manageable ways. no one wants to be the asshole stuck in a vent or stuck with b&e. but no one should want to be a stale explorer as well. if you take issue with another explorer taking what you think is obscene risk, why not pat them on the back and let them get caught?
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natxtron
location:
memphis
urbanesquelation
| |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 25 on 6/21/2006 6:15 AM >
| | | | Posted by yokes
How was the site?
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aside from the whole ethics thing, i'm curious about the site as well. it must have been someplace interesting to go through this kind of effort.
Are you now, or have you ever been? |
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Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 26 on 6/21/2006 7:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by nohbdyshome
i view it like this, someone owns it and is using it for their own means, you entered it through the means of a felony that could be seen as even worst due to the perp work you did
im all for exploring but not buildings that are active and outside of their business hour, if i was the owner i would be very mad (to say the lest) to find someone who broke into my building, and i would press charges.
how would you feel if you found someone "exploring" in your house?
edit: wrong words
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Read the last post I made in this thread.
Thank you all, for your input, that's exactly what I asked for. Thanks for the criticism too, that's how we learn and keep ourselves in check, right? A lot of it I don't feel is relevent to me or the situation because of the circumstances and because frankly, I agree with a lot of it, but I don't think there is a definite line with UE. Frankly, 90% of it is illegal, the fact that this site was active made it unethical in some people's minds, but you don't know the circumstances. In any case, I asked, you responded, thank you.
I'd still love to get more feedback though, and I'd really love to hear of other people using AC systems/ducts. Tag, thanks man. I've read a couple of your threads and I appreciate a lot of your views and admire what you do.
[last edit 6/21/2006 7:46 AM by Chronos - edited 1 times]
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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Sidler
location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 27 on 6/21/2006 7:49 AM >
| | | | Now that everybody know the risks, it does sound like it was a lot of fun, and you sound like you were really prepared for it. Good work!
I've always kept my eye open for ventilation access, but have never found any I trusted. Great to hear that I shouldn't give up hope. 
something witty |
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nohbdy
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 28 on 6/21/2006 10:30 AM >
| | | | i missed that post, sorry about that
well like i said i dont agree with it due to the fact that it was outside the hours and active, its one thing walking in like you work there during the day to have a look around, but is another to break in after hours
but it still is (as im reluctant to say) cool that you got in the way that you did, and were successful, but be careful, we dont need a overzealous rent-a-cop with a gun putting you down, or worse you going away for B&E
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junkyard
location:
LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| |  | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 29 on 6/21/2006 8:27 PM >
| | | | I say hells yeah. That sounds like a Beer Commando entrance. I would offer for advice to be damn sure of your anchors and when in doubt set more. Even 4-5 sketchy anchors properly equalized can work. I've even gone so far as to anchor to something far away and use more rope and pad the edges where the rope is fed to where you need it. As long as you didn't damage anything I say cool, but I hope it was worth it. I also am a bit against taking shit apart at active sites, kinda like if you were to come into my house. I won't preach ethics, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. And kick ass for the cool entrance, way more balls than most people here lately, not to mention the fact that you use your head. I only wish there were more like you on the forums.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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natxtron
location:
memphis
urbanesquelation
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 30 on 6/21/2006 8:38 PM >
| | | | on the topic of the rope: especially where it meets the edge of the entrance, i've used small sections of garden hose to protect the rope.
did you use ascenders to climb back out? those things are damn expensive but quite neccessary.
Are you now, or have you ever been? |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 31 on 6/21/2006 9:15 PM >
| | | | In a pinch depending on the layout you can just anchor to a person..
And furthering the topic of rope/ascenders, you can get an ascender for bout $20, checkout the Petzl Tibloc Ascender.. Alot of people say that it destroys your rope and it's not a good ascender, but if you know how to use it and aren't being stupid with it your rope shouldn't get too marred.. the majority of the damage it causes is from people not locking the ascender fully before putting weight on it.. And they aren't very necessary in the slightest short of making climbing rope more convenient and safer..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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shiroi
 
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 32 on 6/21/2006 11:02 PM >
| | | | Forget the dumb ethics debate, rock on man; what you did is awesome stuff. I love coming down on ropes into a building, especially if it's the air ducts from like 60 ft. I hate all this crap debate that overcomplicates things. I'm sure he knows the friggin' risks, and he sounds like he didn't wreck the place (especially since the majority of the community is against that, it's reasonable to assume he's also there to explore.) Who cares if it's active, higher risk but there's always an owner of some sort. It's all the same really.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 33 on 6/22/2006 2:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by shiroi
Forget the dumb ethics debate, rock on man; what you did is awesome stuff. I love coming down on ropes into a building, especially if it's the air ducts from like 60 ft. I hate all this crap debate that overcomplicates things. I'm sure he knows the friggin' risks, and he sounds like he didn't wreck the place (especially since the majority of the community is against that, it's reasonable to assume he's also there to explore.) Who cares if it's active, higher risk but there's always an owner of some sort. It's all the same really.
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Ethics? It's also called how deep are your pockets? Better start carrying at least 300 bucks, and not blink at paying 1.5+ grand. Plus all the time it will take, and don't forget once shit goes bad it just keeps on coming. This is for misdemeanor charges, not felony. Oh, employers, cops, and rental agents will see that on your police record.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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shiroi
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 34 on 6/22/2006 8:05 AM >
| | | | I know the risks, you know the risks, we all know the risks.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 35 on 6/22/2006 2:55 PM >
| | | | Posted by shiroi
I know the risks, you know the risks, we all know the risks.
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No, I doubt we all know the risks. Have you read your local penal code? Many members have not, some ex-members are thus because of this. Use some imagination; when shit goes wrong, shit doesn't stop where, or when you think it should.
Take the ride. then tell about it. Lots of times there are better ways to achieve the same objective without losing hundreds/thousands of bucks.
If you got money to burn, don't mind potential jail time, and don't care about your good name, go hogwild!
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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junkyard
location:
LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 36 on 6/22/2006 4:01 PM >
| | | | If ascenders are expensive, what kind of rope are you using? Home Depot?? My Assult Line was $120 for only 150 ft. But it's 11.6 and tough as shit, the kind of rope I want for exploring. A good climbing rope can hit $200 easy enough. And it does get used, slightly abused. Nobody said rapping while exploring would be clean all the time. A good set of mechanical ascenders is a must for exploring in my book. Look at the time they save and the security, both issues when used for exploring. This is one area not to be cheap, flashlights is a different story.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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snsabnorm
location:
Nova Scotia
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 37 on 6/22/2006 4:27 PM >
| | | | That looks amazing. I want to try this to get in an old school in my area. Of course the drop is not very high and I wouldnt even have to use ropes but the whole going in through the roof is very cool.
--snsabnorm-- |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 38 on 6/22/2006 4:44 PM >
| | | | Posted by junkyard
Look at the time they save and the security, both issues when used for exploring. This is one area not to be cheap, flashlights is a different story.
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I'll second that for climbing gear in general.. not something you really want to gimp on if yer going to do it..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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tag_cryptic
location:
colorado springs
Gender: Male
| | Re: Entering through the AC
<Reply # 39 on 6/22/2006 7:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
No, I doubt we all know the risks. Have you read your local penal code? Many members have not, some ex-members are thus because of this. Use some imagination; when shit goes wrong, shit doesn't stop where, or when you think it should.
Take the ride. then tell about it. Lots of times there are better ways to achieve the same objective without losing hundreds/thousands of bucks.
If you got money to burn, don't mind potential jail time, and don't care about your good name, go hogwild!
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stick to your penal codes if you will. the rest of us have exploring to do.
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Ethics