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 Decoy
     
Location: Leslieville
Gender: Male
Oh I have slipped the bonds of earth...
 |  | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 80 on 11/19/2003 6:06 AM >
|  | | | Agreed. I think that you found the "happy medium" here. I like the fact that you stress the purpose of the quiz. ^_^ Great work.
It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pitty
To be lookin' at the board, not lookin' at the city. |
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Corporeal Punishment
Location: Lima Center, WI
Gender: Male
Welcome to your heart...
| | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 81 on 11/19/2003 6:15 AM >
|  | | | excellent. Although my head is spinning from reading all the other posts, I do believe that Av has hit upon the proper mix of caution and free will that will allow us to keep being us. I guess I am happy that this thread was brought up, as some interesting ideas were showcased. 
Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong.
"Please do not offer my god a peanut" |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  |  |  | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 82 on 11/19/2003 6:20 AM >
| | | | Is there any way we could keep the regional and tutorial boards out of search engines? Not restrict it to anyone, just prevent them from being indexed. That way it would at least make it a bit more difficult to find out info about a particular place. It wouldn't keep the info away from new people, but it would draw less attention to locations and make it more difficult for authorities to find out if a certain place is being discussed.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 83 on 11/19/2003 6:29 AM >
| | | | Controlling and Elitist ? Thats a load of SHIT.
A quiz where anyone capable of reading will pass will weed out nobody. And the idiots don't give a shit about the rules here or any of the info they read in the quiz. Questions about ethics ? Look at Twin Turbo, he's got no fucking ethics whatsoever yet he'll be in as a full fledged member because he can read...
But it is your forum and you can do whatever you want, thats fine. But don't fucking call me elitist because I don't think your quiz is going to be an effective way of keeping idiots out...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Avatar-X
  
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 84 on 11/19/2003 7:13 AM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
Controlling and Elitist ? Thats a load of SHIT.
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Perhaps you didn't read what I said closely enough. What i meant was: Who are we to decide who can be a UEer and who can't? it's not for us to decide. If your method was applied globally, people like myself would never have found out about UE because all the websites would have been locked.
Posted by Jester
A quiz where anyone capable of reading will pass will weed out nobody. |
It's not supposed to. Once again, you failed to read my post. I clearly said it was solely there to make sure that everyone is aware of the rules and general ethics. There is no such thing as a "full-fledged member" -- you must read the quiz before you can participate in the forum. As such, you're either a member, or you're not.
Jester, if you want to get personal here, I think we should look at your "UE ethic" and how it clearly doesn't jive with most people here.
- You keep sites a secret, even after you've visited them many times, thereby depriving other explorers of the joy.
- You do frequent interviews/media, bringing huge amounts of attention to you and your website, but then bitch and complain about the authority being able to view information.
- You UE not so much for the joy of exploring, but rather for the personal glory, the fame. This is also why you don't share locations -- if you're the only one who'se been there, you've got an extra card to play.
I, along with many others, am not like this. I explore for the sake of exploring. I share photographs and stories with everyone, and post information how to get there so others may share the joy that the place has brought me. I don't greedily keep the place to myself.
For once, please notice that your opinion is in the minority, and here it's majority rules. None of your stuff is in the LDB anyway, nor do you ever post anything specific about your locations in the forum, so you've got nothing to worry about.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Asylunt
Location: MPLS
Gender: Male
The Friendly Beer!
| | | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 85 on 11/19/2003 7:39 AM >
| | | | Ahh Jester, Calm down. This Twin Turbo guy does some stuff differently than you, not everyone is going to have the same ethics as you, does that mean we have to ban those people. He has stated time and time again that he doesn't bust doors down on a regular basis, he got trapped one time and did it to escape. Hell, I'd probably do the same thing if I ran out of options, although most of us will question his Matrix like moves, I don't see that as vandalism, especially after you told me to give Jake616 a second chance after he stated intentions on starting a fire at a location and picking up bats.
Av, I think you've reached your conclusion about what to do, and a lot of others have backed you up. I back you up as well, the quiz may not filter out idiots altogether, but at least they will have to read the rules before being admitted to post.
Asylunt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain |
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tekriter
Location: in the Hindu Kush
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
| | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 86 on 11/19/2003 12:45 PM >
| | | | Av,
I think that is a step in the right direction. The LDB is too open. A trial period would be better than none. How many posts does it take to figure out people are advocating ripping signs down or can't use vowels, punctuation and lock on the Caps Lock key.
Limiting access does not mean you are deciding who is an explorer. That is independant of this website. If you need this website, then you are not an explorer.
Even the Stonecutters had an initiation and voted in new members.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 87 on 11/19/2003 2:12 PM >
| | | |
Posted by Avatar-X
Perhaps you didn't read what I said closely enough. What i meant was: Who are we to decide who can be a UEer and who can't? it's not for us to decide. If your method was applied globally, people like myself would never have found out about UE because all the websites would have been locked.
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If you'd like to talk about not reading and understanding, go back to several of my posts where I explained what I said. How would having only part of the forum and LDB open to everyone cause you to not be able to find out about UE ?
Avatar, you haven't even got anywhere near the truth about what makes me tick... You've tried to flog this bullshit at me in private, you made it public now...
Posted by Avatar-X
Jester, if you want to get personal here, I think we should look at your "UE ethic" and how it clearly doesn't jive with most people here.
- You keep sites a secret, even after you've visited them many times, thereby depriving other explorers of the joy.
- You do frequent interviews/media, bringing huge amounts of attention to you and your website, but then bitch and complain about the authority being able to view information.
- You UE not so much for the joy of exploring, but rather for the personal glory, the fame. This is also why you don't share locations -- if you're the only one who'se been there, you've got an extra card to play.
I, along with many others, am not like this. I explore for the sake of exploring. I share photographs and stories with everyone, and post information how to get there so others may share the joy that the place has brought me. I don't greedily keep the place to myself.
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You've bitched at me for not placing sites in the LDB and i've told you why I don't want to. I don't think detailed info about the places should be open to any and every person on the web like that. For basic info and pics, they can see my site, same as some other groups feel.
I'm not depriving anyone of the sites. Every explorer that has come to town, I've gone way out of my way to show places here. Feel free to ask Stong, Anymouse, Skaught, or Poppins (all of UEA affiliation), Reduxzero from Edmonton, or Julia Solis from Dark Passage. I showed them anyplace they wanted to see. I got Julia into Padova and Woodlands (I couldn't be there, so gave her very detailed info about security and entrances). I'll also share important info with unknown people that contact me if I trust them after talking to them. Sorry I won't throw out all information blindly, but I'll gladly give it to a person I feel is trustworthy.
For a person that wants to just hoard the sites to himself, I sure do take on a lot of new members don't I ?
As for doing interviews. I don't have a problem with the media in the slightest. The interviews have been fun. I'll do an interview if I think the reporter will truthfully portray UE. How many interviews has Ninj done ? More than me thats for sure...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 88 on 11/19/2003 2:37 PM >
| | | | I've got no problem with interviews. But you are being two-faced, you can't be getting all this attention for UE on one hand, and be bitching about there being too much information on the other.
The solution I posted seems to flow with everyone (except you) so that's what we're going to do.
huskies - such fluff. |
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asdafaf
Location: oe'r yonder
I have always been here before.
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 89 on 11/19/2003 2:44 PM >
| | | | Tonight on Pay-Per-View; the UE messageboard Grudge Match of the century:
Jester vs. Av-X!
(queue dramatic music here)
I'm looking for software engineers to hire at Amazon. |
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Detroit
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| |  | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 90 on 11/19/2003 2:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Shane
Is there any way we could keep the regional and tutorial boards out of search engines? Not restrict it to anyone, just prevent them from being indexed. That way it would at least make it a bit more difficult to find out info about a particular place. It wouldn't keep the info away from new people, but it would draw less attention to locations and make it more difficult for authorities to find out if a certain place is being discussed.
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AV I think what you are planning is a great idea. However Shane has hit on an important point. Lumping the regional boards in with the LDB and maybe even the tutorial section would serve two important purposes:
1) It would further protect the sites locations and encourage more open and frank discusssions in the regional boards,
2) It would be more of a hook to entice new users to actually bother to sign up.
Doing this would still leave enough of the site indexed to allow people to"stumble apon it" ...
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 91 on 11/19/2003 2:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by Max Action
Jester vs. Av-X!
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I wage five-hundred quatroos on the newcomer.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Detroit
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| | | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 92 on 11/19/2003 3:03 PM >
| | | | Guys, can we please keep this thread on topic? I think that a solution is close but there is still some discussion needed.
I will reiterate my desire to protect the regional boards with the LDB.
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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Kimmo
Noble Donor
| | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 93 on 11/19/2003 3:03 PM >
| | | | I'm a bit late with this thread, so perhaps somebody has already pointed about the following fact when it comes to quiz or anything that requires any special knowledge about a certain country or a language.
I've said it many times, that I would like to see this place as an international community and yes, after I whined enough, World section appeared and then many entries to LDB.
The main point being, that if you add a quiz to the forum, that is require to pass before you can read, post or do anything, you can be sure that 90% of the people from outside of North-America will be gone from this forum and I think it's a shame. For instance that question about the voltage subways use...I know a lot of things, but that is something that I do not know, when it comes to North-America.
Also if there would be a quiz, every foreigner who would like to join, would need to have a nearly excellent skill in English to even understand the question if it's meant to be any more difficult than what's the names of Donald Duck's nephews.
Just my two cents and sorry if somebody has already pointed out this. I'm too late with this thread.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 94 on 11/19/2003 3:03 PM >
| | | | Well, Detroit, here are the problems with that;
1. The Tutorials board has nothing secret on it at all. There's nothing that gives away secrets of a particular UE location or whateer. This has already been discussed here.
2. The regional boards -- I was considering on making them private, but then, think about what's on them. Mostly questions, asking for more information. There's really nothing secrative being discussed there.
Let's try what I said before, see how it goes.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 95 on 11/19/2003 3:10 PM >
| | | | Kimmo: The subway question was supposed to be a joke.
Here's an example of a quiz question:
First, read the rules. http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=426
Q1. Is it a good idea to post exact details on how to get into a particular place?
a. Yes, that way everyone can get in and check it out.
b. Yes, everyone needs to know the cool way I got in.
c. No, it's against the rules and makes it less fun for others |
or possibly this format:
Q1. When posting about a new place, what MUST you leave out?
a. Pictures of the place
b. Details on how to get in
c. Driving directions
d. An exact address and street number |
You know, very easy questions if you've read the rules.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Detroit
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| | | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 96 on 11/19/2003 3:10 PM >
| | | | Well Av I am with you on the Tutorial section, I was just trying to find a compromise position with the people who wanted that included.
As for the regional boards, I would agree with you except for the fact that I keep finding my posts in the Quebec forum with google... I just find it unnerving to know that a gazzilion people will get my posts as search results. It keeps me from being as open in my discussions as I would like to be.
I have to say that with the regional boards it is not as much a question of security of places as a comfort level thing. I realize that there are the private boards but sometimes it is nice to openly "discuss" topics with people who frequent your regional board.
However I understand your point of view as well.
Thank you for taking steps to secure at least the LDB.
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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Kimmo
Noble Donor
| | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 97 on 11/19/2003 3:14 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Kimmo: The subway question was supposed to be a joke.
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Yeah I sort of got it, but still I thought that you are going into some technical details.
Anyways the questions you posted look ok to me.
P.S. I just realized, that the Donald Duck question would be too difficult to me I'm not completely sure how they are spelled in English...
[last edit 11/19/2003 3:14 PM by Kimmo - edited 1 times]
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Chud
Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd...
| | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 98 on 11/19/2003 3:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by Kimmo
The main point being, that if you add a quiz to the forum, that is require to pass before you can read, post or do anything, you can be sure that 90% of the people from outside of North-America will be gone from this forum and I think it's a shame. For instance that question about the voltage subways use...I know a lot of things, but that is something that I do not know, when it comes to North-America.
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The quiz would be right after reading a brief and simple passage about UE in general and the forum rules, as I understand it. Most people who would be able to post would be able to pass, and the questions would all be about the passage. Even most people here wouldn't know about Canadian subway voltages, let alone European explorers coming here.
EDIT - Too little, much too late...
[last edit 11/19/2003 3:15 PM by Chud - edited 1 times]
Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything.
-Kimmo |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ!
<Reply # 99 on 11/19/2003 3:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I've got no problem with interviews. But you are being two-faced, you can't be getting all this attention for UE on one hand, and be bitching about there being too much information on the other.
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Wrong. the two are not the same. Basic awareness of UE I do not see a problem with, in fact I am quite in favour of it. On the other hand, anyone and everyone being able to look through the lock picking tips or directions right to the door of a site, I do not agree with.
Posted by Avatar-X
The solution I posted seems to flow with everyone (except you) so that's what we're going to do.
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And as I said earlier, it's your forum and you can do what you like. All I see is the quiz is like the skill testing question on the back of a contest entry. You'll fill it out and be done with it to get your prize (in this case, access to the forum).
There are literally busloads of people on the forum that (if they ever end up in my area) I would take to any place i've been. I went to meet a newbie on Monday night, and will be taking him out for an easy exploration on the weekend if the weather clears up a bit. Just from speaking to him online, I felt he was decent and i'd trust with some sites. I do not hoard my info about sites, I just refuse to give every little detail to any moron that messages me saying "dude, what you do is cool, I wanna go to Riverview/Woodlands, tell me how to get in."
And Crossfire, I believe it's quatLoos, if my useless tv trivia memory is on target...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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