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1 2 3 4 5 6   UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Forum Security Vote (Viewed 1849 times) Mark  Very Noble Donor Location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 20 on 11/18/2003 4:57 AM >   I still dont like the flagging. Thats saying ohh we dont like you go away.... Also how are you going to get someone involved who knows nothing about UE. Especially if people raz him about asking a dumb question. The theory is sound but I think the practice would be terrible. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 21 on 11/18/2003 5:53 AM >   Okay, yes I voted, but on retrospect, I think that this is one of those topics that should go away. There are simply too many ways to impose limitations on people. The LDB should be censored to a degree, but only so far as locations. I think that the people who do post locations should put a friendly little message that says "hey, if you want more info, PM me". This way it is decided on the persons own discretion as to whether the inquiring mind is worthy of a tour or more info. Henceforth, we have censorship on a case by case basis, allowing us to all take part in guiding noobs, kicking boobs, or whatever seems the right thing to do. Not to mention the fact that if, say, I wonder if someone is a good candidate to take UEing, I can always ask Jester, Ninj, Av, or the others who've been around a good deal for advice. I think that with enough communication we can take care of this issue, and with a little discretion on the part of posters, we needn't worry about giving away too much. This is a turning point--let's hope that we turn the right direction. Ok, who has a compass? EDIT: Grammar. I hates bad grammar. [last edit 11/18/2003 6:23 AM by Corporeal Punishment - edited 1 times] Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 22 on 11/18/2003 6:00 AM >   Yes, this is longwinded. I don't mind some information being available to anyone. Case in point, my own site. Everyone can see it, but there's little real location info given except for well known places. I know for a fact that security at Riverview knows of my site, and has actually directed some people (they caught looking for a way in to Westlawn) to my website if they wanted to see what was inside the place. If you google for Riverview Tunnels, my site is the first hit. All this is fine, I've given away no relevant info that could be used against the locations. I think the LDB should be similar. Info that gives nothing away is all a casual viewer should be able to see. I strongly support a buddy system for getting cleared to view the full LDB and more in depth parts (tips for example) of the forum. To have full LDB access you have to be sponsored, but it can be indirectly. Maybe a 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon kinda thing. Like say Ninj knows, Julia of Darkpassage, and she knows tunnelrunner A, and he knows Tunnel Runner B. As long as you have a link of people vouching that leads to a person in good standing, you're in. Yes, this will make it harder for someone new to get full access, and I don't see the problem there. Pay your dues, contribute to the forum and once some people trust you, they can message the mods that they think you deserve access. If you live in a city with any established explorers, it's pretty easy to meet up for a coffee and if they trust you, you're in. If you're in a town in the middle of butt-fuck-nowhere it will be tougher, but really, what's the rush for you to see all the secrets of the locations where you aren't ? This system would grant access to most UE'ers quickly, without a ton of work for the mods, and really pretty simple to get full access if you join up and contribute enough that someone is willing to say that you sound like a decent person... edit: and I voted 6, when I meant 5, sorry, i'm mildly retarded and autistic... [last edit 11/18/2003 6:14 AM by Jester - edited 2 times] It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Servo   |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 23 on 11/18/2003 6:23 AM >   Hmm. I think we've all become massive xenophobes. At first I thought, maybe it is a good idea to limit the LDB. Don't want vandals getting information they need. But then again, what kind of vandals are going to make a specific search for a specific site, just to get enough info to go trash the place? Anyone looking for information that specific either wants to know the history, or maybe is an Urban Explorer who, like all of us, is at the point of just learning that there are others out there interested in what they love to do. We can assume the LDB has one of two purposes: to document sites so others can live vicariously, and enjoy the site without visiting it (either because of location or if the site has been secured/demolished), or to give people specific information about how to get to a place. If we go with option 1, then omitting directions and leaving the location vague is a great way to "secure" things. I can see the "dangling the carrot" argument, but anyone dedicated enough to do the research to find the place... I doubt that person would be your run-of-the-mill vandal. So my vote? Leave everything as it is, but suggest on the LDB location edit pages that unless the site is either well-secured or just publicly accessible (as is the case with a site turned into a park or something), leave only vague location information and omit driving directions. [last edit 11/18/2003 6:24 AM by Servo - edited 1 times] Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 24 on 11/18/2003 6:30 AM >   I don't see it as Xenophobic, but I do believe not all info should be totally in public view. The sponsor idea would work so easily if you think about it. Almost everyone that posts here can trace their way back to someone that is established and would vouch for them. Only people that aren't known whatsoever yet would be limited,until they establish trust, then they are in. I don't see the problem with having to earn the right to see all the tips everyone else has worked so hard to learn... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Corporeal Punishment  Location: Lima Center, WI Gender: Male Welcome to your heart...  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 25 on 11/18/2003 7:01 AM >   Puting it that way, Jester, I can agree. It's just all these different rules being proposed; a 10 day intro period, vouchers, THEN people vote yea or nay. I think it's just simpler to not post actual locations and to discuss details via PM or the private forums. Simple as that. However, I can see your point about tips and tricks. That would be something else altogether. If anything, I would say go with a voucher program only...but who would vouch for me? No one knows me personally on this board, so someone would have to take responsibility for my being here based soley on my posts which, although they have descent ideas, don't really give alot back to the UE community (as of yet)...OR, we could simply start a private forum for tips and tricks and only invite the people who've been here for a while, providing info and whatnot. That would solve most of this in a heartbeat. I vote Av, Ninj, Jester/Crossfire, and/or Krazy for mods as they seem to have been here for quite sometime and they generally post usefull (if sometimes critical)stuff... Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong. "Please do not offer my god a peanut" sami  Location: florida Gender: Female  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 26 on 11/18/2003 7:50 AM >   I can see good points and bad in all of the ideas - but being brand-spanking new, I will assume that I still reside in Bashee Land and shouldn't trepass into Basher-ville. Servo brings up something that I feel is very important. Please don't lock out the people who are "just at the point of learning that there are others" of like interest. The Cat Lady Decoy  Location: Leslieville Gender: Male Oh I have slipped the bonds of earth...  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 27 on 11/18/2003 7:56 AM >   While it's tempting to paint forums in the black and white of bashee and basher, remember that at it's core a forum is a community. Communities are a compilation of different experiences, talents, outlooks, and biases. Some people a biased against new people, but in my experience with being new here, unless you do something way out of line, you're likely to fit right in. So as a fellow "newb" I ask you to join me in being inquisitive and helpful where your talents allow you to be. I hope that people remember that's what this is for. It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pitty To be lookin' at the board, not lookin' at the city. Asylunt  Location: MPLS Gender: Male The Friendly Beer!  |  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 28 on 11/18/2003 9:53 AM >   I voted number 1, but I would like to add a suggestion: I think it would be a simple and effective idea, if after signing up the new person was directed to a welcome page that sort of explained some general rules and ethics of the forum and of UE in General. Free information is what leads to new ways of thinking, maybe the young vandal or tagger will come across this site, and maybe they will start reading our posts and get a different Idea of visiting these places and actually morph into a decent explorer. I don't think cops and what not go out of there way to read our posts just to set up some kind of trap. I think with localized private forums and pm, we have the tools to share sensitive information in a discret way. The LDB while kept vague, may come up after Googling and lead those "Explorers by Birth" to a community that will welcome them. Most people with a vandal mindset that I have met, are more interested in scoring some weed, than doing any substantial research into a site. Asylunt "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain Jedstah  Location: Moncton, NB, CanaDUH. Gender: Male i never thought id see the day, when church kids choose the hardcore way.  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 29 on 11/18/2003 1:18 PM >   im with jester on this one. i voted #6 after reading his post. You shake my hand, say “pleased to meet you.” Look me in the eye, I don’t believe you. TUI, as long as I’m still alive. I live despite you. Realize I’m not one of your kind, I’m nothing like you. Ninjalicious  Gone, but always with us Location: Toronto  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 30 on 11/18/2003 2:20 PM >   I like Asylunt's suggestion. Frankly, I don't see any drawbacks to such a plan. Ninj http://www.infiltration.org Detroit  Moderator Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal Gender: Male 4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide  |  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 31 on 11/18/2003 3:00 PM >   While I initially voted for option 3, now that I have given it more thought I think that option 4 is the best way to go. Furthermore, while I am adamant in my belief that there should be some sort of improvement in security I do agree with Asylunt that new members should be directed to an ‘info” page that they would have to read and perhaps agree to (even if the act of clicking "ok" is purely symbolic). I would also like to take this opportunity to personally thank AV for starting this thread and offering us a chance to decide how best to tackle this contentious issue. The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 32 on 11/18/2003 3:52 PM >   Mercurycrest. With mt proposed plan, You would be a perfect example of someone that doesn't *really* know anyone, but I would suggest to have full access. You've been here long enough and posted intelligently, seeming to possess values. So, it would keep things like the tips section away from people that seem more like they would like to learn how to rob a house, someone like you would pretty easily get access to the info. Nothing is perfect, but I think the balance of not requiring a ton of extra work for mods and a more secure yet still quite attainable part of the forum make it a pretty easy thing to implement and maintain. It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Valiant Dancer  Location: Villa Park, IL Gender: Male  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 33 on 11/18/2003 4:09 PM >   I voted 1. The system seems to be very well under control. Everybody seems to be civil and polite. (Abusers are dealt with appropriately.) With the inclusion of the LDB, obviously, specific locations would have to be restricted to trusted users. Avatar-X  Alpha Husky Location: West Coast Gender: Male yay!  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 34 on 11/18/2003 4:41 PM >   Alright, how's this idea: - When you're not logged in, going to the LDB allows you to see only the photographs and possibly the description. - After creating an account, you are taken immediatly to a little "welcome" page. This page outlines the forum rules, some of the UE ethics, and finally you must pass a simple quiz to prove you've actually read it. You will be unable to use the forums without first passing the quiz. - Once you've passed the quiz, you have full access, and now you will see the extra info in the LDB. How does this sound to everyone? huskies - such fluff. Shane  Moderator Location: Bronx, NY Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 35 on 11/18/2003 4:44 PM >   Sounds good av, but I think it would be better if we also included certain parts of the forum in that limited access. "Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 36 on 11/18/2003 4:45 PM >   I definitely think the Tutorials section should have a bit tighter access... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Avatar-X  Alpha Husky Location: West Coast Gender: Male yay!  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 37 on 11/18/2003 4:45 PM >   Well yes, the forum remains unchanged. Fully accessible even when not logged in, you just can't post. huskies - such fluff. Crossfire  Location: Kay-Dub Gender: Male Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.  |  |  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 38 on 11/18/2003 4:48 PM >   Can we see a version of this 'quiz' before it goes live? Maybe we can help put it together? If someone doesn't pass this 'morality test', what happens? C. Disgruntled. Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: * Forum Security Vote * ALL READ! <Reply # 39 on 11/18/2003 4:51 PM >   Posted by Crossfire If someone doesn't pass this 'morality test', what happens? C. It's pretty serious if they fail, then they're forced to only explore with you Crossfire... for ETERNITY ! Honestly, I think a "i'll vouch for the guy" system is better than a UE quiz... And I still believe a section that details how to do a lot of things, should be members only, not unregistered viewing... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. 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