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Server Time:
2024-05-16 16:59:25
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 MothMan
  
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
 |  | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 40 on 11/30/2004 6:26 AM >
|  | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
That is what I'm asking is how you legitimize UE to your own self-consciousness/ego. What do you believe gives you the right to do what you do?
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There are those of us who do not accept the paradigm your question demands. Put another way, some folks do not feel they need a right to do what they do, prior to doing it. I explore on property that is not mine, sans permission. A full 90% of my adventure involves this.
I do not rationalize this. I do not couch it in cutesy-pie phraseology designed to make the stark reality of it go down better. And no, I have no legal or moral or ethical right to do this kind of exploration. And I don't pretend to have said right.
None of this bothers me. You see, I operate a little outside the framework of your question.
The alternative of course to be a self-loathing monster that can't control his or her actions.
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Hardly. That may well be your alternative. It is not mine.
...at the end of the day nothing really belongs to anyone. Things change hands in the blink of an eye...
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Yeah right. You really believe that?! Do you seriously feel ownership rights are that vague? Then why vocalize the need to self-legitamize UE? If there's no property owner, there's no trespass. If no trespass, then no wrong exploration; no further need to soothe a conscience or bother with a rationalization.
So that's how I sleep at night after tresspassing on "private" property.
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White Rabbit is honest with this issue. It is what it is. KAOS, I'm not knocking you, dude. If you need to approach your UE like this, I'm fine with that. But understand that I don't approach it that way at all.
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IIVQ
     
Location: La Sud-Est du cité majeur du North-Holland (Bijlmer), .NL
Gender: Male
Back in Urbex!
| |  |  |  | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 41 on 11/30/2004 8:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
So that's how I sleep at night after tresspassing on "private" property. How do you sleep at night?
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Sorry to disappoint anyone, but I don't even think about it. When I do something my mind thinks I shouldn't do (for whatever reason, safety or morality, security etc), my mind just gives me a *blink* to make sure I at least thought over what I'm gonna do.
In most cases when I go trespassing, my mind will in fact *blink* me, but usually first for getting in trouble reasons (does nobody see me), and secondly for safety (how do I get over this fence without getting hurt). I've not yet had the morale *blink* with me going off, at least not in the case of UE.
(at least, not with me going on. I've looked at houses then thought "let's not do this")
And usually I'm so tired after a day of UE that no morality can stop me from sleeping, unless I've seen a dead body that day.
A few observations:
Tijmen
P.S. Spellcheck sais trespassing, not tresspassing
Posted by MapMan | 18/9/2005 19:25 | Hedy Lamarr made porn?
Posted by turbozutek | 20/9/2005 2:29 | Dude, educate us! |
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 42 on 12/1/2004 5:24 AM >
| | | | Perhaps I erred in defining my question in terms of validating a negative because that presupposes a kind of judgement which immediately involves culture and society, which is exactly what I'm not interested in. I don't know how else to pose the question in terms that you'll understand it. I simply don't believe that anyone can do anything that they truly believe is wrong, that they would die before doing so. So from that perspective I guess my question is rather extreme in the case of UE which rarely ventures into the life and death realm. Even so it is about choices and I'm interested in the root of those choices for various people. Vauge answers don't really satisfy me, but then different peoples' thought processes are different. They may be unable or unwilling to express their true thoughts/feelings on the subject in a way that I can understand, and that's fine.
I'm interested in how people justify their actions to themselves, not to others if that helps. In any case all of the responses thus far have been rather interesting.
[last edit 12/1/2004 5:25 AM by Kay O. Sweaver - edited 1 times]
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 43 on 12/2/2004 4:43 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
I'm interested in how people justify their actions to themselves, not to others if that helps. In any case all of the responses thus far have been rather interesting.
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I guess the best way for me to say it is, "I explore because I just plain want to." I cross legal lines when I do so, but not internal ones, if you take my meaning.
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 44 on 12/2/2004 8:25 AM >
| | | | Which makes sense. I guess I'm just curious as to how people achieve a balance between their internal lines and those that society encourages us to adopt. Most people out there accept the rules handed down, how/why do we avoid becoming entranced by that?
I guess I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same recycled old reasons people claim to do UE and how they justify it. I've seen the TV clips and read the newspaper quotes. Rarely are they very deep, and I know there's more going on in the minds and the hearts of everyone here. That's what interests me.
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 45 on 12/2/2004 4:42 PM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
I guess I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same recycled old reasons people claim to do UE and how they justify it. |
So... which ones sound shallow?
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 46 on 12/3/2004 10:34 PM >
| | | | They don't necessarily sound shallow. I'd just like more details, but then I'm detail oriented. I'm the kid who never stopped asking "why?" You answer my question and I ask you gave that answer and keep pushing until I hit "It just is."
It can be annoying I know...
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 47 on 12/6/2004 12:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
Most[/i] people out there accept the rules handed down, how/why do we avoid becoming entranced by that?
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By thinking for oneself; thinking outside the box. As to "why," well, I don't like others leading me, doing my thinking for me, or setting standards for me. In the end I may very well have accepted the rule, fully so; but not blindly, and not without examining it. It's a level of independence that shares an edge with what some perceive as anti-social.
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 48 on 12/9/2004 7:04 AM >
| | | | You're skirting the question. I asked why you don't tow the "company line" and you said because you "think for yourself." but what is it that you think? Its like asking why you're independent and answering by saying you're independent, its not a real answer. Can you see what I'm saying here?
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 49 on 12/9/2004 7:27 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
You're skirting the question. I asked why you don't tow the "company line" and you said because you "think for yourself." but what is it that you think? Its like asking why you're independent and answering by saying you're independent, its not a real answer. Can you see what I'm saying here?
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K, you are going down the same road I did . . .
Is LegalUE.info your site Mothman?
[last edit 12/9/2004 7:30 AM by Skaught - edited 1 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 50 on 12/13/2004 8:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by Voltaire
Is LegalUE.info your site Mothman?
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Yes, it is. You're not gonna go and publicize its location in WNJ are you? 
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 51 on 12/13/2004 8:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
You're skirting the question. I asked why you don't tow the "company line" and you said because you "think for yourself." but what is it that you think?
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I think I won't accept something just because somebody told me I should.
I think I'll "try it on for size," even if the tag says it should fit.
I think I'll choose for myself if the notion is acceptable, even if it sounds good up front.
Why don't I subscribe to the party line? Because usually the "party" has an agenda that I'm leery of.
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 52 on 12/18/2004 9:41 AM >
| | | | What brings you to that conclusion?
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 53 on 12/21/2004 5:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
What brings you to that conclusion?
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You know, K, a quote now and then would help.
I conclude the "party" usually has an agenda that doesn't fit with me because I'm not at all certain a consensus will identify with me -- my needs and goals -- and then undertake to support or improve my position. It's up to me to do that sort of thing. As much as possible, I don't delegate that sort of thing.
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Kay O. Sweaver
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Happiness is saying yes more often than no.
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 54 on 12/21/2004 4:51 PM >
| | | | Sorry, never been one to do much quoting, and I didn't figure out how to do it on Av's system until recently. Anyhoo...
Posted by MothMan
I conclude the "party" usually has an agenda that doesn't fit with me because I'm not at all certain a consensus will identify with me -- my needs and goals -- and then undertake to support or improve my position. It's up to me to do that sort of thing. As much as possible, I don't delegate that sort of thing.
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If you don't mind me asking, do you take into account the needs and goals of others when arriving at your own position?
(Its an honest friendly question, even if it could be interpreted otherwise, damned Internet and its total lack of subtlty and innuendo.)
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Amy Smith is an infected slut |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Personal Defense of UE
<Reply # 55 on 12/22/2004 12:15 AM >
| | | | Posted by K.A.O.S.
If you don't mind me asking, do you take into account the needs and goals of others when arriving at your own position?
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Yes, I do. You see, when I trespass in your defunct rivet factory, and take all the photos I can stand, I'll leave. I won't jack anything. I won't light any fires inside. I won't piss in the corner. Hey, it's your property, and though I entered sans permission, I sure as hell won't give you the headache of having to clean up my intentional damages or messes. You don't need me to do that. And I won't.
But more generally, I'll accomodate anyone if I can. I'll help if I can render aid. But I won't let myself knowingly be taken advantage of, played for a fool, or duped into a detrimental scenario.
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