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 sQualie
     
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Female
sQualtastic
 |  | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 20 on 11/13/2013 3:43 PM >
|  | | | Posted by jerm IX
- see last post on previous page -
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This is where we differ in opinions as I believe that some locations are best kept to people that are driven to explore them. The masses that have their interest peeked towards exploring can go to the more well known locations and work their way up so to speak. I'm not saying that one needs to be worthy but certain places require a certain level of knowledge and expertise to ensure a safe and uneventful visit. I started off with Brickworks and look at what I'm doing now. I would have never been successful at any of my most recent explores without the experience I've gained over years of being part of this community, even if I would have had access to spoon fed intel back then.
As for wanting to tell the location's story, all the more power to you and you have quite the story telling talent, I just think that there are ways of telling the story without being so exact with all the facts and without naming the location. Take example of the good folks on UER's UK counterpart, the guys there seem to agree on code names and are able to tell a location's story while still keeping it a secret. Their locations aren't impossible to find for the more resourceful explorers, yet it still weeds out undesirable attention.
You may feel that you're the scapegoat here because you're by far the most "in everyone's faces" about your posts and blog, but perhaps you will mark a change in the rules on this site and be made an example of what not to do for the other offenders of the same kind.
You're a decent explorer Jerm, too bad you don't care about anything other than your view, post and comment counts.
[Edit note: Reference]
[last edit 11/13/2013 3:44 PM by sQualie - edited 1 times]
http://www.flickr....otos/c_rouge/sets/ |
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Wong Guy
Location: Dropped off by the mothership somewhere in Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 21 on 11/13/2013 3:59 PM >
| | | | Well since everyone has brought it up. I had to check out your blog. I think Jerm has the right to post names if he chooses to ( freedom of speech ). After all, it makes it easier for us to explore and look for new areas.
Taggers will go usually wherever there's a blank wall, so it won't matter if its listed or not. They will usually stay local to their own area ( picture running around with a couple of spray cans and how much noise that makes )
The best thing however I personally like is that Jerm will respect the place and circumstances and some places aren't posted to their location to respect the area (i.e. "house on the hill" ). So its enough evidence to say he's just not post happy and name everything, he does use discretion. Thats good enough for me.
" I am a leader, not a follower, unless it's a dark place, then fuck that shit you're going first.." ~quote stolen from FB |
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jerm IX
Location: Somewhere, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
If you can't find something nice to say...say it on UER.
| |  | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 22 on 11/13/2013 4:12 PM >
| | | | I'm comfortable with how I do things and the mods have already asked that this convo not take place on the threads. I'm off on the road again now.
http://myabandonmentissues.blogspot.ca/ |
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sQualie
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Female
sQualtastic
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 23 on 11/13/2013 4:20 PM >
|  | | | Posted by drifter420
- scroll up a couple of posts -
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Jerm can put what he wants on his blog, no one will police him there. Posting a link to the full intel on his blog in a public post here - very grey area as it's indirectly going against forum rules.
Posted by jerm IX
I'm comfortable with how I do things and the mods have already asked that this convo not take place on the threads. I'm off on the road again now.
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I agree that it wasn't pertinent on Rash's thread but it is here. Perhaps we let them be the judges of that?
http://www.flickr....otos/c_rouge/sets/ |
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Intrinsic
  
Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 24 on 11/13/2013 5:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by jerm IX
While it seems many people get off on feeling like a part of some sort of secret society, holding onto secrets from the general public, that does nothing for me. These buildings are for everyone to enjoy, not just the people driven to explore them.
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What we need to remember is that not everyone shares the same values as a society, thus sometimes it is necessary not be a 'secret society' but to keep a secret from society. Nothing bothers me more than looking at photos of a once immaculate location and seeing items gone missing because some schmuck decided to throw antiques into their truck and take them home.
Graffiti appears inside residential homes (not even industrial locations but houses). Arsons occur, particularly in the Niagara region. Vandalism is often the first thing to occur in any location.
I have posted locations to Facebook where currently 6,660 (waiting for 6,666 just to laugh) people see them. It's disturbing because some of the comments indicate people would have taken items home, or would like to 'rescue' such items. There's also many young people with questionable intentions. Up until now I've deleted such comments and don't post location information but unless I can babysit the comments, someone will usually post a "I know where this is" which means anyone else can ask them. [I am no longer posting exterior shots or any of the more immaculate locatins]
Can we post photos and tell a story without using the real name and without showing addresses? Absolutely, nor will the reader suffer major disappointment by not knowing that Mrs. Heinz was really Mrs. Chang.
We have two choices, one is to respect them and make every effort to preserve them. It's not even a UE thing or a photography thing - it's having respect for the property and whomever once lived there or still tends to the property. The other is to do away with caution and simply allow whatever happens to happen and say that is fate.
In a hobby where sometimes finding absolute gems is based on who you trust and who trusts you, it should be important to know when to keep details private otherwise people will quickly deem that person as a risk. Large locations found on Google, maybe not but small houses stacked to the roof with antiques and left exactly as they were for two decades, it is inexcusable to advertise the wherebouts of them.
I agree that these places are for everyone to enjoy, however not everyone 'enjoys' them in the same way. Kids enjoy kicking holes in walls, couples enjoy taking antique record players home, scrappers enjoy selling pipes.
I enjoy houses where time stands still - and there have been some amazing ones found in the last few months, ones that can't be revealed for all of the above risks listed.
[last edit 11/13/2013 5:24 PM by Intrinsic - edited 3 times]
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jerm IX
Location: Somewhere, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
If you can't find something nice to say...say it on UER.
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 25 on 11/13/2013 5:36 PM >
| | | | I'm always vague about locations specifics for farmhouses that deserve discretion.
http://myabandonmentissues.blogspot.ca/ |
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sQualie
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Female
sQualtastic
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 26 on 11/13/2013 5:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by jerm IX
I'm always vague about locations specifics for farmhouses that deserve discretion.
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You lacked discretion when you first posted the Down Family Farmhouse and got appropriate threats from family members because of it. Lets not forget about that fiasco.
Also by your logic, even intact non-residential locations that can be looked up on Google, with the right information mind you, don't deserve the same respect? I highly doubt that anyone could easily find many of these locations as all they have to go on are a few pictures. It's only because you spoon feed them the name(s) and detailed history that they're able to find then via simple web search. Otherwise all they would be seeing is a school, factory, power plant, warehouse, hospital or ??? that's located somewhere in Ontario.
http://www.flickr....otos/c_rouge/sets/ |
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jerm IX
Location: Somewhere, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
If you can't find something nice to say...say it on UER.
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 27 on 11/13/2013 6:29 PM >
| | | | We differ on opinions. That has been established. You aren't gonna sway me in your direction any more than you would alter your own position. It's not against the rules, that has also been established. I'm not interested in debating.
http://myabandonmentissues.blogspot.ca/ |
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Harvestman
Location: Somewhere in SORTA/TANK Territory!
Gender: Male
Everything about me has a poker face.
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 28 on 11/13/2013 6:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by jerm IX
(except Lie Ann & Harvestboy).
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You know, I'd respect you a hell of a lot more if you cut the insults and location-name-dropping and just explored.
Makes you look unprofessional to post things like the post quoted above.
Oh good, my slow clap processor made it into this thing.
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Steed
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 29 on 11/13/2013 6:49 PM >
| | | | Posted by jerm IX
I'm comfortable with how I do things and the mods have already asked that this convo not take place on the threads. I'm off on the road again now.
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No, we just try to stop flame wars. If people want to have a mature discussion about ethics, that's cool. And when you posted that you don't care, presumably about locations and their sensitivity, that's definitely worth discussing.
For clarification, what you're doing by giving too much information away isn't against UER rules, but it is very loose butthole and I encourage discussion so that everyone can see why many of us might think so.
Posted by Rashomon
Yes, I am a a jerm X fanboy ... everyone knows that by now ... LOL ...
And in all fairness, I think you have a very valid point. These locations ought to be respected and kept private for those who go in to explore, photograph, document and decay with dignity and pride. There are lots of people who's only intent is vandalism, finding a place to get high, etc. etc.
However, from personal experience it was jerm X' blog, posting these exact places that got me interested in this hobby. If he hadn't done so I would have forever been locked out of these fun and addictive adventures. There was a time when I just followed jerm's "407 series" and follow in his footsteps. LOL
So I guess posting the exact name is a double edged sword. On the one hand you attract unwanted attention from vandals, the city and developers boarding it up; and on the other hand people who are genuinely interested in seeing these places for themselves.
I am a noob still so if there is something I don't understand please do advise. At the end of the day I am here to learn and shoot 
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We have someone like Jerm over here in Korea, although she's much less of an explorer, but on the other hand also doesn't ever dabble in street art. She's basically the one person who's handing out information on locations publicly, stylising herself as the information broker for abandoned locations and whoring them out publicly online in exchange for clicks and likes. Yes, she gets more of both of those than I do, but if you think that makes her the "indisputable queen of urban exploring and urban decay in Korea" you're as crazy as she is, because fame and popularity are the worst measurement of a good explorer, if that is really a measureable thing. For example, one time I found an abandoned army base, and a week later this person was able to use some landmarks to trace its street address, went there and took pretty well the same shots I did, and posted it for everyone to see then started drawing up plans to offer group tours there. It's a shit thing to do and an easy power play to earn yourself fans, but it ruins and cheapens UE for the rest of us and shits on everyone's work.
I get that you're grateful for Jerm sharing sensitive information with you and allowing you to follow in your footsteps, but you can probably see why more experienced, skilled explorers might not like all the publicity of sites.
Hopefully someday you will develop the skills on your own and move out from under Jerm's shadow and start finding your own locations to explore; at that point, your opinion of how much he shares might change.
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sQualie
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Female
sQualtastic
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 30 on 11/13/2013 6:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by jerm IX
We differ on opinions. That has been established. You aren't gonna sway me in your direction any more than you would alter your own position. It's not against the rules, that has also been established. I'm not interested in debating.
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It's not directly against the rules, nor is it condoned. It's in a grey zone and you're taking full advantage of the technicality, lets all be clear on this. You don't care about anything other than your own recognition.
Don't be a Jerm Ford, at least be honest about it.
http://www.flickr....otos/c_rouge/sets/ |
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The Seeker
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Gender: Male
Time's Person of the Year for 2006
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 31 on 11/13/2013 7:42 PM >
| | | | Posted by Steed
You're going to have to explain why you don't care. I don't know the location or if it was ever sensitive, but nobody likes a liability in the urban exploring community.
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+1
Well said Steed
Sony a7II | Canon 5D mkII | Canon Rebel XSi | Sony 28mm f/2.0 | Yashica 50mm f/1.9 | Sigma 15mm f/2.8 fisheye | Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 | Canon 50mm f/1.8 STM | Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 |
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The Seeker
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Gender: Male
Time's Person of the Year for 2006
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 32 on 11/13/2013 7:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by RiddimRyder
It's pretty straight forward, loose lips sink ships.
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+1
Sony a7II | Canon 5D mkII | Canon Rebel XSi | Sony 28mm f/2.0 | Yashica 50mm f/1.9 | Sigma 15mm f/2.8 fisheye | Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 | Canon 50mm f/1.8 STM | Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 |
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Skye_Ann
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Gender: Female
I seem to have Irritable Owl Syndrome...
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 33 on 11/13/2013 7:46 PM >
| | | | I recall a certain other "high risk" location (Read: Lots of valuables inside, not trashed, wide open) Jerm had intended on exploring. When I caught wind of this I politely asked him to keep the name out of his blog - just due to general concern for the location.
I was stunned to hear him reply (similar to what he has said earlier)
"I don't share the mindset of keeping locations private. It just supports the idea that the secrets makes people in the know feel special. I post the stories of locations in full detail with full names in full view of the public because these stories should be told to the public at large and documented publicly. I don't care if they get whored out to tons of photographers and explorers. I don't play the boys club bullshit."
I was blown away. How someone could have such little care for a location that was so pristine was mind blowing.
Luckily (or not so much in the locations favor) The information about it's location was posted on another site (not to anyones fault here) and within a couple weeks the location was SET ON FIRE. The building was sealed the next week.
The other site where it was posted had much less traffic (I think?) than Jerm's Blog and I shudder to think what would've happened had he shared the full name and history of said location on his blog.
My Blog; https://historyindecay.blogspot.com/ |
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Skye_Ann
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Gender: Female
I seem to have Irritable Owl Syndrome...
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 34 on 11/13/2013 7:56 PM >
| | | | It may also be worth noting when I brought up the case of a building "being set on fire or vandalized because someone found it on your blog" He replied with "That isn't on me."
But what I find confusing is how he can be so open about certain locations - and say next to nothing about others. Including "Mental Health Services Facility (Somewhere, ON)"
It seems he only keeps locations private when it benefits him, but "whores out" other locations after he's explored them. It comes off like if he's done exploring it, he doesn't care if anyone else can ever explore it again. Property owners have found his blog with their properties on it and have given him hell for it. Which then resulted in heightened security, sealed locations or even demolished locations.
I do appreciate Jerm's writing and photos - but I think he could show much more discretion when it comes to locations. I'd even go as far as comparing it to the same type of "Defacing" he did when he used to graffiti locations back in the day.
My Blog; https://historyindecay.blogspot.com/ |
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jerm IX
Location: Somewhere, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
If you can't find something nice to say...say it on UER.
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 35 on 11/13/2013 11:19 PM >
| | | | Funny that this thread had only 100 views over the course of a few day when it was about exploring an abandoned school, but accumulated another 430 views in the last 18 hours over this drama BS. And I'm supposed to respect this 'community'.
Hilarious.
http://myabandonmentissues.blogspot.ca/ |
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relik
Location: 44.26126°,-88.41502° (Appleton, WI)
Gender: Male
There is no truth, Only a perspective.
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 36 on 11/13/2013 11:26 PM >
| | | | Did i mention.. Great shots dude!
"When it rains, just find bigger drains." |
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styles
Location: Kitchener, ON
Gender: Male
| | | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 37 on 11/13/2013 11:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by relik
Did i mention.. Great shots dude!
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Indeed, very good shots and excellent write up.
I get both sides of this argument, it's important to provide others the opportunity to explore, but at the same time, when these locations get trashed it -COULD- come back at us.
The risk is some places become no longer accessible to us. These places weren't supposed to be available to us to begin with. You can romanticize it with stepping into someone's life as it was left, or stepping back in time, but did you know this person or how they would have felt about someone looking through their life?
Point is - this is all a grey area. Drama isn't needed because there is no right or wrong, just how we present ourselves and our finds to each other. Why judge one another when we offer our experience to one another.
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Rashomon
Location: Hamilton
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 38 on 11/13/2013 11:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by styles
Indeed, very good shots and excellent write up.
I get both sides of this argument, it's important to provide others the opportunity to explore, but at the same time, when these locations get trashed it -COULD- come back at us.
The risk is some places become no longer accessible to us. These places weren't supposed to be available to us to begin with. You can romanticize it with stepping into someone's life as it was left, or stepping back in time, but did you know this person or how they would have felt about someone looking through their life?
Point is - this is all a grey area. Drama isn't needed because there is no right or wrong, just how we present ourselves and our finds to each other. Why judge one another when we offer our experience to one another.
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Well put ... very well put! And beautifully worded!
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Mr. Nutz
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: It's time to take you back to school.
<Reply # 39 on 11/14/2013 12:20 AM >
| | | | Who gives a shit about location naming when we are being reminded about this fucking gold!!!!
http://www.youtube...atch?v=3CMAK0N3U8k
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