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Dalmaticus
Location: MSP / Fargo Gender: Male Total Likes: 170 likes
| | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 21 on 1/27/2016 3:36 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Of course the police told him they had him on camera. Why wouldn't they? It is the job of the police to determine if it's likely that you've broken the law, and if so, throw you in jail for the lawyers to figure it out. Police are legally permitted to lie to you so that you confess and tell on all your friends. They are permitted and encouraged to do so. ...so when the helicopter is above your head and you're the only dude in the field surrounded by squad cars....its a super good idea to shut the fuck up. Police: "Hey kid, I have you on camera, I know you were in the building. How did you get in?" Background: **helicopters, sirens, and german shepards** Explorer: "Sir, I hear you, I have nothing to say" Rinse. Repeat. If you get pulled over or stopped for something minor (speeding, whatever, a ticketable offense).....you have a decision to make if you want to talk to the cop or not. Being pleasant *could* get you out of it and its unlikely you'll go to jail. If you're doing something you know is illegal and would probably result in your arrest, it's always better to say nothing. Relux is correct. If you don't believe him or me, please watch and listen to what this lawyer, professor, and cop have to say. https://www.youtub...atch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
| All the treasure are belong to me. We got a slat, for that! |
| rlx
Location: Minneapolis Gender: Male Total Likes: 123 likes
forget regret.
| | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 29 on 1/28/2016 11:39 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Officers in my neck of the woods don't get to tell a prosecutor what to do, thats a complete fallacy. Officers do the arrest and "investigating", they don't decide on what charges a prosecutor charges out and what they decide to do with them. Not admitting to a crime is not hard balling. The fact that society thinks that if you do what the police tell you that you have a right to do is hard balling is sad. When being arrested in the US you are actually told that you are allowed to say nothing and that if you do decide to say something it WILL be used AGAINST you. I don't know why people ignore this. They actually tell you ahead of time that they are waiting for you to incriminate yourself and as soon as you do, they will use it against you. Not might, they tell you they WILL. Obviously, I don't know the situation in your case but if you were told you were the most cooperative "prisoner" they have ever had that to me means one thing.. that you did their investigative work for them - by admitting to a crime. It's more likely that those charges were reduced because they could not prove the felony charge either way and by "cooperating" (and correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume is telling them you committed a crime) you guaranteed a conviction on the misdemeanor charge. Otherwise, that too would have been dropped. Prosecutors do not want to go to trial on a charge they cannot prove, which is why they get reduced. They don't reduce charges because they are being nice to you - a complete stranger to them. Not attempting to argue here, I just believe that the idea that people think admitting a crime is going to do them good is absurd. Bottom line is it's important to know your rights and the laws where you live. Along with having the right to say nothing you have the right to decide whats best for you in your situation. It's not about giving an officer a hard time, it's about doing whats right for yourself and in most cases that's not handing the officer incriminating evidence on a platter because you think he's going to be nice to you. We the people pay them to investigate crimes, that's their job. If its considered hard balling by making them do this, then so be it.
| forget regret. |
| TD
Location: Indiana Total Likes: 50 likes
| | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 32 on 1/29/2016 10:24 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by relux
In America, you never admit to a crime. It's sad, but admitting to a crime because of evidence law enforcement claims they have does nothing good for his case. There is no bigger log jam to get in, he's already in the log jam by giving the officer all the evidence he needed to press charges. Choosing not to say anything is not going to make things worse, the only thing not saying or admitting anything could possibly do is cause no charges to be filed. Trust me, you're better off not telling the police you committed a crime.
| Just to be clear, when the police got us we were still well inside the fence, and therefore trespassing. They didn't need anymore evidence than that. We were very very obviously trespassing because they literally caught us doing it. It doesn't matter if they actually got us on camera or not, and it matters even less when you consider the fact that an officer actually saw us inside the building anyway. That being said, I agree with your point. If plausible deniability is an option than it is absolutely best to try and maintain it, but I would think it's pretty rare to get caught trespassing without actually being in the act of trespassing while you are caught. That is probably why, from what I have read on this site, cooperation is generally a good policy. Pissing the cops off by making it take longer isn't going to help you out at all. They already got you for trespassing. Cooperation makes for happier police officers which may just win you a warning, as long as your cooperation doesn't entail further self implication.
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| TD
Location: Indiana Total Likes: 50 likes
| | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 35 on 1/30/2016 11:18 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by relux In almost every state it's not trespassing until you are told to leave and either refuse to depart or return.... Denying is certainly better than admitting, but it's best to not say anything. Not speaking or saying anything is the best practice IMO. If it pisses off the cops to not hand them evidence for a conviction, so be it. That's the only reason they'll be pissed.
| In addition to what blackhawk said, a fence, as far as I know, legally implies refused access. The no trespassing signs that happened to be on the Navistar fence rather sealed the deal too. If this: "In almost every state it's not trespassing until you are told to leave and either refuse to depart or return" were true then I would not have been arrested for trespassing. I had not been asked to leave at any point and while I don't know exactly what I said to the police officers, I do know it's hard to admit to something that never happened. If your statement were true then no one in their right mind would ever get arrested for trespassing because no one in their right mind would refuse to leave a property if it meant potential legal repercussions.
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| rlx
Location: Minneapolis Gender: Male Total Likes: 123 likes
forget regret.
| | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 37 on 2/1/2016 3:48 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by TD
In addition to what blackhawk said, a fence, as far as I know, legally implies refused access. The no trespassing signs that happened to be on the Navistar fence rather sealed the deal too. If this: "In almost every state it's not trespassing until you are told to leave and either refuse to depart or return" were true then I would not have been arrested for trespassing. I had not been asked to leave at any point and while I don't know exactly what I said to the police officers, I do know it's hard to admit to something that never happened. If your statement were true then no one in their right mind would ever get arrested for trespassing because no one in their right mind would refuse to leave a property if it meant potential legal repercussions.
| You misunderstood. In those states, if you refuse to leave its trespassing and if you return after being told not to return its trespassing. You typically can't be guilty of trespassing if you haven't received a notice saying you will be trespassing if you return, etc. (i.e. verbally, signs, etc). Obviously, this varies by states. "if that were true then I would not have been arrested for trespassing" Well, if you think only guilty people are arrested for crimes then we should just do away with the court system all together. Geez. Police officers are not lawyers, they are the janitors of the legal system. Great discussion of trespassing, it is very true you need to learn the laws for your own state. But for the 100th time, please shut up when you are around an officer...life will be better, i promise =)
| forget regret. |
| blackhawk This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control Total Likes: 3996 likes
UER newbie
| | | | Re: When Luck Runs Out < Reply # 38 on 2/1/2016 5:49 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by relux Great discussion of trespassing, it is very true you need to learn the laws for your own state. But for the 100th time, please shut up when you are around an officer...life will be better, i promise =)
| With cops each situation is different. Wait for them to ask and stay calm. It always serves the lawyers interest to remain silent, but not yours. If you aren't in cuffs the cop may simply be curious why you're there. Sometimes they even say go ahead and shoot but be careful or give you useful info. Cops respond positively most times when you report scrappers, vandals, or worse. I was given free run of Pennhurst by tagging a copper scrapper by the state police plus other obscure sites to explore. I had two FBI Agents stop by my house about 10 years ago unannounced. They asked me about a bunch of images I shot over 3 days in Chester. I showed them. Why not? I learned more from them than they did from me. If you are guilty the FBI will give you one chance to come clean, if you lie or stonewall them and it's something they're interested in, you are boned more than likely. The DEA is similar. Many times what they say is on the level. At a fair I was shooting had 3 local cops ask to see my images. They wouldn't say why. They looked and looked, finally the Lt looked, then talked to the fair president. The fair president was appalled they were hassling me. The fair has a photo contest every year. She told the Lt, 'Let him shoot all he likes!' Oh too funny, free rein to shoot the hell out of it and I did for many more fairs. Latter I learned latter from one of the fire police the cops got a complaint from the girl in a bikini in the dunking booth. She was a minor. Lol, I got a couple AF locks on her, but decided not to punch the shutter; not a good subject. No image... and that's what the cops were looking for. I find if you treat cops, people, and property with respect and integrity when shooting things tend to work out right. I've had more encounters with police and detectives with no lawyers and no arrests. One thing I can you tell about most leos is they really hate being lied to. Never lie when the truth would serve you better. If you must lie, do so by omission... and remain silent.
Remember criminals come out at night;at night you're in for a harder time if spotted.
[last edit 2/1/2016 9:31 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
| Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in. |
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