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Server Time:
2024-05-16 06:49:48
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 Kuroneko
      
Location: Tokyo
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Radios
<Reply # 20 on 2/13/2012 4:04 AM >
|  | | | Posted by micro
Radios tend to be what people use when they first take up urban exploration. See also: respirators, maglite holsters, camo cargo pants, and Xtreme fingerless gloves. Sadly some people never outgrow these things, but I digress.
The problem with radios is that they're unreliable in certain locations and potentially noisy. If you really need to communicate with members of your "team" during one of your "missions" then send a "text message" on your "phone" instead. For example: "im n da barn WBU?" Just make sure you have it set to silent/ninja mode, you n00b.
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No. Radios are to be used when necessary for groups comms, and particularly safety. Especially when scouting a location and cell phone coverage not available.
Perhaps not for ninja infils, and not to be over-used for kiddy chatting, but certainly not to be discounted so easily. Only a n00b would not use appropriate tools for the job at hand. Neko.
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NoSuchPerson
  
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 21 on 2/14/2012 4:28 AM >
| | | | The problem with most radios I have seen people use for UE is that they suck. The vast majority of people would think of the blister-pack FRS/GMRS radios. Those are just about useless, and you'll give up pretty quickly.
If you have a set of decent quality commercial radios (Kenwood, Motorola or Harris), you can set them up so that even a whisper comes through loud and clear.
Of course, if you're doing such a risky UE that requires such communications, chances are you'll be in close quarters anyhow.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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RailGuy88
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Where you're not...
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 23 on 2/14/2012 9:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by exkalibur
The problem with most radios I have seen people use for UE is that they suck. The vast majority of people would think of the blister-pack FRS/GMRS radios. Those are just about useless, and you'll give up pretty quickly.
If you have a set of decent quality commercial radios (Kenwood, Motorola or Harris), you can set them up so that even a whisper comes through loud and clear.
Of course, if you're doing such a risky UE that requires such communications, chances are you'll be in close quarters anyhow.
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Buy expensive radios ($250+ each) and use the digital scramble feature on them. Add 2-tone selective calling so only the radio opens up when a friend calls (vs the entire group). Also adding earbuds and palm mics helps conceal your use of radios and frees up your hands when you need to talk and grab at the same time.
Well worth the hassle of trying to use flashlights or hand signals to "communicate".  ... I use them locally with friends and they do work very well!
Going where others can't... |
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RailGuy88
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Where you're not...
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 24 on 2/14/2012 9:28 AM >
| | | | Posted by D-Forreal
The higher the frequency, the better "building penetration" you get. |
Not sure if you are aware of how RF signal propagation works, but the longer the frequency wave, the farther the signal travels. The shorter with wave, the shorter the signal. UHF radios suck in buildings, whereas VHF and lower frequencies work much better.
For anyone who is not a licensed amateur, the Family Radio Service operates in the same vicinity of the 70cm band at 460mhz.
You don't need a license and the equipment is dirt cheap, however FRS radios are limited to 0.5 watts, so your milage may vary.
Also, UHF radios are usually very small, pocket sized even.
My personal favorite is the Yaesu VX-8GR. It transmits on both the 2m and 70cm bands, receives a huge chunk of the VHF spectrum (So yes, you can receive police/security/fire/etc on it as well) and also has a built in GPS.
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You a licensed ham? Perhaps you should re-read up on the technology...
That being said, any radio is fine for use. If not FRS, then use MURS. MURS (multi-use radio service) operates on five frequencies in the VHF spectrum up to 1 watt. Much better for long ranges and in buildings, tunnels, and other areas. Also free to use.
There's also a new radio called eXRS (made by Trisquare) and uses the 900 MHz spectrum with digital communications. The upgraded version of these radios allows you to send and receive text messages, voice calling, coded messages, and so much more. They start at $199 USD, and are available direct from the manufacturer or at places like Best Buy, REI, and other electronic/outdoors stores.
Who am I? I'm a multi-FCC-licensed user with over 20 years of knowledge and experience using, repairing, and working with RF Communications. I'd say I know just enough (including infiltration tactics taught by the SWAT and military).
Going where others can't... |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 25 on 2/15/2012 2:59 AM >
| | | | UHF and 800MHz are FAR better for in building penetration than VHF.
That said, I far prefer UHF as it is a good mix of both the distance you get with VHF, the in building you get with 800 and a smaller antenna profile.
These days you can pick up a set of very inexpensive P25 portables (XTS3000 Model 1) that would work fantastic.
The Motorola DTR radios are a very good option as well. License free, digital and secure (well, secure enough). They have range that is at lest equal to an FRS radio, if not more.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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TeePER
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 26 on 2/15/2012 4:51 PM >
| | | | I use Motorola mag ones, the bpr40 model. Tx at 5 watts, 450 MHz.
They are mil-spec, and seem to be indestructible. I've never had reception problems, even underground to above ground. I'm not licensed, I'm just using a unused frequency and hoping the FCC doesn't notice. (I know, it's a bad idea)
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miskingo
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 27 on 2/15/2012 6:36 PM >
| | | | I've never had a "I wish I had a radio" moment while exploring. Only time I use radios is when draining in groups.
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geoff5093
Location: New Hampshire
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 28 on 2/15/2012 7:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by D-Forreal
Nothing quite like a dual band handheld for exploring purposes. I prefer using a UHF transceiver on the 70cm band.
The benefit of using a UHF radio can be seen when in tunnels, buildings, or any urban area for that matter. The higher the frequency, the better "building penetration" you get. This could be the difference between static and a message getting through in a closed space. Since most of your handhelds are going to be 5 watts or less, the risk of your transmissions propagating very far is minimal.
For anyone who is not a licensed amateur, the Family Radio Service operates in the same vicinity of the 70cm band at 460mhz.
You don't need a license and the equipment is dirt cheap, however FRS radios are limited to 0.5 watts, so your milage may vary.
Also, UHF radios are usually very small, pocket sized even.
My personal favorite is the Yaesu VX-8GR. It transmits on both the 2m and 70cm bands, receives a huge chunk of the VHF spectrum (So yes, you can receive police/security/fire/etc on it as well) and also has a built in GPS.
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Actually the opposite is true, the higher the frequency the greater reflection the radio waves have when hitting a solid object. That's why the lower frequencies such as 50/144MHz have a greater distance then 440/1.2.
5 watts underground won't go far at all, which is a good thing in most cases. "Yo I was able to break in through this window, it's right next to **", next thing you know someone was monitoring and called the police.
I'd say 90% of cities and towns, if not more are digital for at least police, which amateur equipment can't decode.
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Keaven
Location: 15 miles from the Grassy Knoll
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Radios
<Reply # 29 on 2/16/2012 12:08 PM >
| | | | Fellow Radio Geeks,
If we are gonna debate UHF vs. VHF, we probably should take the discussion to the "COMM info and technical" board. Penetration is not the same a RF propagation; in theory at least, UHF is better for building penetration. (I have a GROL with RADAR, Amateur Extra and work in SatCom, but Google will give you the same answer).
Non Radio Geeks,
Two way radio is loads of fun. I highly recommend using radios car-to-car when traveling to a destination, but if you need radios while exploring IMHO your group is too large.
Posted by RailGuy88
Not sure if you are aware of how RF signal propagation works, but the longer the frequency wave, the farther the signal travels. The shorter with wave, the shorter the signal. UHF radios suck in buildings, whereas VHF and lower frequencies work much better.
You a licensed ham? Perhaps you should re-read up on the technology...
That being said, any radio is fine for use. If not FRS, then use MURS. MURS (multi-use radio service) operates on five frequencies in the VHF spectrum up to 1 watt. Much better for long ranges and in buildings, tunnels, and other areas. Also free to use.
There's also a new radio called eXRS (made by Trisquare) and uses the 900 MHz spectrum with digital communications. The upgraded version of these radios allows you to send and receive text messages, voice calling, coded messages, and so much more. They start at $199 USD, and are available direct from the manufacturer or at places like Best Buy, REI, and other electronic/outdoors stores.
Who am I? I'm a multi-FCC-licensed user with over 20 years of knowledge and experience using, repairing, and working with RF Communications. I'd say I know just enough (including infiltration tactics taught by the SWAT and military).
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etchleon
Location: toronto today...
Gender: Male
E Tenebris Lux
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 30 on 2/17/2012 9:27 AM >
| | | | Sometimes, not frs stuff. I use a headset/throatmike, but that is cause I own one for work, so I figure I'll use it as well. I will generally explore with sets that 5watt in either 400-470ish (I am a lic HAM, but I often disregard the rules and jump in somewhere else on the spectrum) or in the 800-850mhz area. Along with scanning for P.D. and Security if a consideration.
I like to take my 400-470mhz set when I am going alone, because it is more rugged than my cell, and well work with no signal, and if something bad happens, I will still be to croak for help.
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KublaKhan
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 31 on 2/17/2012 4:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Captain_Slow
We prefer smoke signals.
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Outstanding. Flare semaphore is also excellent.
"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
PICS |
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etchleon
Location: toronto today...
Gender: Male
E Tenebris Lux
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 32 on 2/17/2012 4:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by KublaKhan
Outstanding. Flare semaphore is also excellent.
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infrared l.e.d. can be a good signal device if you are wearing goggles.
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TeePER
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 33 on 2/17/2012 6:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by etchleon
infrared l.e.d. can be a good signal device if you are wearing goggles.
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I tried some cheap active NV goggles on an explore once, it wasn't useful at all.
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danielb
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 34 on 2/17/2012 7:35 PM >
| | | | One of the people I explore with carries a motorola XTS5000. Usually I would have something cheaper like an HT1000/HT1250. However one advantage the XTS5000 has is can be set up with a field programming option.
Yaesu and other HT's meant mostly for the amateur radio market are nice too. The small ones look very inconspicuous, like some kind of consumer 2-way radio you would get at walmart.
One good thing about a programmable HT is that you can also use it to monitor public safety/police frequencies. Most police are on UHF. Just be sure to set it to receive only before you key up on their frequency by accident.
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subtilis
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
UER's Resident Mycologist
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 35 on 2/28/2012 9:53 PM >
| | | | I highly suggest a back mounted naval grade morse code light.
that is if your carrier pigeons are unavailable.
but in all reality... if i get separated from a buddy in a factory or something i send him a text message. Call me stupid but it usually works just fine for me.
or, you know, just yell "hey john" assuming i'm not evading security or something
It's not the smokes makin' me sick, It's standing out in the cold to smoke em' |
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/-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 36 on 2/28/2012 11:59 PM >
| | | | Higher frequency = shorter wavelength. Shorter wavelength basically means it is easier for a radio signal to penetrate into buildings & other structures through openings that have minimal attenuation of the radio signal (like most windows).
/-/oolie
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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etchleon
Location: toronto today...
Gender: Male
E Tenebris Lux
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 37 on 3/1/2012 10:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by TeePER
I tried some cheap active NV goggles on an explore once, it wasn't useful at all.
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Cheap, there is the problem right there. Good NVDs aint cheap.
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TeePER
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 38 on 3/2/2012 5:41 PM >
| | | | But I'm simply not willing (or able) to pay hundreds or thousands for good NV.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: Radios
<Reply # 39 on 3/3/2012 2:55 PM >
| | | | A huge distraction, tractable, to be used only if absolutely needed, like a cell phone. More junk you don't need.
Silence, and alertness are your two best friends. Cut the bloody schoolgirl chatter.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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