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1 2 3 4 5   UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Straight Pride Icon (Viewed 1374 times) kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 40 on 4/21/2004 10:22 PM >   Anyone can drive around with a sticker on their car saying "I hate black people." Because anyone can have it and nobody is forced to have it, is that not discrimination either? In Nagasaki they like bukkake. Avatar-X  Alpha Husky Location: West Coast Gender: Male yay!  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 41 on 4/21/2004 10:23 PM >   your example falls flat, because in your example the message in the sticker is the discrimination, not the sticker itself. now, don't expect any more replies from me in this thread. i have better things to do. huskies - such fluff. Krenta  Location: Saint Paul, MN Nope, wasn't me.  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 42 on 4/21/2004 10:26 PM >   Like it or not, by their very nature, groups perceived as minorities have a degree of extra protection, just by virtue of being minorities, of being different. There's Gay Pride, and Black History Month, and the Women's Rights movement, Brown Pride, and so on. They're celebrations/recognitions of uniqueness, diversity, freedom, equality, and independance, not conservative social reinforcements of the status quo. A "Het Pride" day would be nothing more than a celebration of conservativism and conformity, and would, let's face it, almost certainly include a right-wing religous aspect lacking in Gay Pride events. White Pride, a potentially valid and unobjectionable subject, generally morphs instantly into "White Supremacy"; a similar thing happens with Men's Rights. Straight Pride has the potential to be the same, because it's not a celebration of uniqueness or diversity, it's an affirmation of The Way Things Usually Are, with an implied footnote of (...And Should Continue To Be). The GLBT icon on UER is a way of saying "I or someone I know is different, and I accept and am proud of that fact". What would a Straight Pride Icon say? "I'm just like everybody else"? Are people here really that insecure that they have to reinforce their membership in the herd, or just that homophobic? Have Speed Graphic, Will Travel. kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 43 on 4/21/2004 10:27 PM >   My example is perfectly valid. Regardless of what you think, it seems more people on here agree with me than with you. The results of the poll speak for themselves. Run along to your better things. I'm sure there's a lot of non-gays on the internet who could be doing with some hating upon. If you go quickly, you'll be able to find even more. In Nagasaki they like bukkake. kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 44 on 4/21/2004 10:29 PM >   Posted by Krenta ...or just that homophobic? There are no homophobic motives in my starting this thread. It's purely in the interest of equality for the users of this forum. In Nagasaki they like bukkake. Noah Vale  Location: Portland, Or It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 45 on 4/21/2004 10:52 PM >   I agree with Krenta. This thread is retarded...er...mentally deficient (don't wanna discriminate or whatnot). While we're at it, I want a Polish Pride icon, a German Pride icon, a Texas Pride icon, Windows and Mac Pride icons could come in handy too... "Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. Capone  Location: London, Ontario Gender: Male UEL  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 46 on 4/21/2004 11:02 PM >   I don't think it's an issue of homophobia or insecurity at all Krenta. Equality is equality is equality. I believe that gays should be treated the same as anyone else. I do NOT believe they should have some "special status" or what have you. You know as well as I do that it's no different than all the racism bullshit. It's alright to have a black entertainment network and black pride and black history month and etcetera, but I would bet my last dollar there would be cries of "RACISM!" or "DISCRIMINATION!" the second a white history month ever happened, or white entertainment network, or whatever. I'd also be quite willing to bet my last dollar that if the tables were turned (ie; only an optional straight-pride star) than people would be raising hell. I'm not racist or homophobic either; just stating facts. The mere fact that the star (whether Av admits to it or not) is singling one group out and not providing anything for the other is discriminatory. The fact that people can choose to have this or not does not make it any less discriminatory either. Quite honestly I don't care about the stars in any case (including gay/straight pride or lack thereof), but the man has a valid point. And as somebody else said, why even have stars for that kind of thing at all? So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 47 on 4/21/2004 11:05 PM >   Thank you, that is my entire point. If there aren't icons for everyone then there should be icons for nobody. In Nagasaki they like bukkake. orangeindiana  Noble Donor Location: Texas Gender: Male Meh.  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 48 on 4/21/2004 11:27 PM >   Posted by kn0wledge That's fine. In that case please remove every location and gallery that I have created. I will not add content to a site that discriminates against me. Ooookay that's when it gets out of hand. I agree with you. If there's a gay pride star, equality demands a straight pride star. I agree with Av too. It's a stupid little graphic that goes under a made up name on a website created for a hobby. You may be right, but it's Av's place. So what? Get over it. Removing everything you've contributed and stomping off because of such a silly issue is a lot less than I'd expect from somebody who's been here as long. This is really not as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. Shane  Moderator Location: Bronx, NY Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 49 on 4/21/2004 11:47 PM >   I say get rid of the gay pride star, and forget about the straight pride one too. I know plenty of gay/bi people (my girlfriend and sister to name a few), but I choose not to have a gay pride star. Why? Because it has absoltely nothing to do with urban exploration. Zilch, nada, not even remotely. The fact is there isn't any kind of discrimination against someone in regards to UE because they are gay. All of the other icons that Av has created are directly related to this board and urban exploration, this one is not, and it is obviously causing controversy and wasting the time of us arguing about it. We would be better off without it, people wouldn't complain, and it wouldn't be an issue if we made the stars strictly related to urban exploration. If you are gay or support someone who is, feel free to add it to your signature, personal picture, or username, there is no need for it in a star. I also think the wolf star is pointless and should be done away with as well. "Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk Krenta  Location: Saint Paul, MN Nope, wasn't me.  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 50 on 4/21/2004 11:55 PM >   Posted by Capone Equality is equality is equality. I believe that gays should be treated the same as anyone else. I do NOT believe they should have some "special status" or what have you. You know as well as I do that it's no different than all the racism bullshit. It's alright to have a black entertainment network and black pride and black history month and etcetera, but I would bet my last dollar there would be cries of "RACISM!" or "DISCRIMINATION!" the second a white history month ever happened, or white entertainment network, or whatever. Black History Month is a response, in part, to the overwhelming eurocentricism that permeates western culture and the continuing discrimination against people of colour. Women's Lib is a response to the historical and continuing treatment of women as second-rate citizens. Gay Pride and Brown Pride are responses to the very real discrimination against and mistreatment of homosexuals and latinos. What would possibly be served by having a white history month, aside from fulfilling the knee-jerk wishes of narrow-minded conservatives hiding behind "equality" to maintain the status quo? I view the "Gay Icon" as being exactly like the optional field for gender in one's profile. Unless the username is distinctly female, the majority of people are going to assume that someone without a gender selected is male. Do you disagree? When in doubt, assume they're male; that's how the world works, and it's far less embarassing to mistake a woman for a man than the other way around. Does what gender a person is even matter here on UER? Hell no. But women - a group treated like a minority - get to denote that they're different from the rest of us on here. Why isn't everyone fighting to have the gender field removed, instead of the equally meaningless gay pride star, if not for some sort of insecurity? For that matter, why not shout from the rooftops the inalienable right to a "untrusted" star? And a "contributed squat to the LDB and proud of it" star? Maybe a "Not a Moderator" star? Trying to hide a conservative agenda behind the masquerade of equality for the majority is ridiculous. I agree with Shane - if everybody's going to be so childish, get rid of all the stupid stars... Arguing with the homophobic, the insecure, and the idle who just enjoy being pricks is pointless... Have Speed Graphic, Will Travel. Sniper  This member has been banned Location: Golden, Colorado Gender: Male Contact R@!d3r to join the Graphics design Board!  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 51 on 4/22/2004 12:01 AM >   Posted by Avatar-X there is no "status" being given here. it's just an icon, it has no purpose, no meaning. you could use the same argument for the wolf star, saying "why don't i have one -- that's discrimination". the icon isn't for sexual preferences anyway. if you want the icon, you can have it. if you don't want it, you don't have to. since anyone can have it, there is no discrimination. ahh, can i have the wolf icon then? If indeed it means nothing, I should be able to have it. Click here to join the drainers board. Click here to join the Video game board. MacGyver  Location: St Paul, Minnesota Gender: Male "Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 52 on 4/22/2004 12:19 AM >   Posted by Krenta Why isn't everyone fighting to have the gender field removed, instead of the equally meaningless gay pride star, if not for some sort of insecurity? What does that have to do with anything? Dare I say your arguement holds no water. This is a great example of what this thread was started to achieve. With the gender field, you can either not select anything (equivalent to not having a "star") or you can choose one gender (we'll equate this to the "GLBT star") or you can choose the other gender (which would logically indicate usage of a "straight star"). If you could only select either nothing or male, there would be an uproar. If you could only select either nothing or female, there would be a different uproar. If the field wasn't there at all (leaving everyone with "nothing"), then a few people might gripe a bit about how it's hard to tell if you're conversing with a man or a woman, but there wouldn't really be an uproar. No apply this to the GLBT "star". Since gender is actually a pretty useful thing to know about a person when you're trying to share stories, pictures, and information with them, it would make sense to have it as an option to set in your profile. Since being/knowing/supporting people of GLBTness really has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with urban exploration, it's pretty dumb to have a special part of the profile configuration dedicated to it. It's even stupider that these "oppressed people with unequal rights that get dumped on a lot" (and that's more or less a bunch of spliced-together direct quotes from people here) have this profileage set aside for them when people who are attracted to members of the opposite sex only have absolutely nothing of the sort available to them. The way I see it is this: If I turn on the GLBT "star", people see me as being either GLBT myself or supportive of it, neither of which is true. I'm not homophobic, insecure or a hater of some sort, I just have personal and religious beliefs that a man is supposed to shack up with a woman, and not some other combination or permutation. Now here's the kicker: If I don't turn on the GLBT "star", people could very easily interpret that I am unsupportive of GLBT people or outright hate them, when I simply am straight and proud of it. If there was a straight pride star, then I could indicate this. Without it, people are left to wonder. Once again, none of this matters at all, simply because it has absolutely nothing to do with urban exploration or even the off-topic discussions that go on around here. If you need to show support for GLBT that badly, put it in your signature or personal picture or something. Go march in parades and do your kinky GLBT things with other GLBT people and have a good time. I really don't need to know or care about it. For the above carefully explained reasons, I formally request that the GLBT star be removed from the forum's interfaces and we stick to stars that have some form of meaning. The wolf star doesn't really bother me, as it doesn't come with a controversey attached to it, although it also has little use or meaning aside from the good clean fun it provided when it was still a mystery. Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine "If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." cruty_bint   |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 53 on 4/22/2004 12:33 AM >   This really is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!!! kn0wledge, what is your problem; why do you feel so threatened by a daft wee icon? Does my avatar make me racist because it only represents one country? You say there is no homophobic motive in starting this thread; thats certainly a matter of opinion. The fact that anyone would have an issue with the pride flag is disconcerting to say the least! Being heterosexual is something thats automatically presumed about a person as it is percieved as 'the norm', the pride flag is (as has already been said) a way of distinguishing yourself from the 'mainstream'. Allright, there probably isn't any call for it in this kind of environment, but why don't you chill out a wee bit? I'd also like to add that I was embarassed for you to read this post. sincerely, crusty ;) I'm not bigotted: I hate everyone equally Frost  Location: K.Dot Gender: Male No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 54 on 4/22/2004 12:46 AM >   Wow, this thread just goes to show the awful playground mentality in this place.... Even from the beginning it sounds like some 3 year old whining because Johnny got a cookie and he didn't.... like holy FUCK... grow the fuck up! How old are you seriously... it's pretty sad that people have to make drama out of everything just to get their kicks. Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 55 on 4/22/2004 12:56 AM >   Why is it so ridiculous? It's about, as I have already stated, equality. I don't feel threatened; I feel pissed. Pissed that every day my personal and religious beliefs are being a little more eroded by flag-waving gay rights people who want to rub it in my face that they are gay and I am not. The excuse given for the gay pride icon was one of equality, or rather, lack of it. How is one supposed to believe this when everyone who isn't gay is discriminated against? This is not a word I throw around lightly; I don't discriminate against others because of their race, sexuality, height or anything. I do however believe that if you want to preach equality than you should practise it as well. And I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but being heterosexual is normal. Regardless of this fact, people ought to still be given the opportunity to declare their sexuality; if one group can, why can't everyone else? Even so, this is still unconnected to UE. I never thought UErs would be the gay-bashing kind; indeed I have seen no examples of bigotry towards homosexuals. Ergo I see no need for them to declare it. The fact of the matter is, though, that if gay people are given a way to proclaim that they are gay, then every other sexuality ought to be represented too. Failing that, nobody should be able to. Which is, at the end of the day, how it should be. Orangeindiana: I understand what you're saying. However as long as this practice continues, I will not make any further additions to the DB by way of protest, and I shall be encouraging those of my friends who feel the same as I do, to do the same. In Nagasaki they like bukkake. Capone  Location: London, Ontario Gender: Male UEL  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 56 on 4/22/2004 1:06 AM >   Thank you MacGyver, summing things up nicely. Anyway, Krenta, call it homophobic and whatever else you want. My opinion still stands. Simply stated: there should be both a gay and straight pride star, or none at all. As I said before there's no need for either of 'em, but if one is there so should the other one be. By the way, I'm not advocating a white history month or anything else. I'm just using that analogy because the same principle is the issue here. Discrimination is discrimination now matter how you look at it or for what reason it's in place. I know quite well that the discrimination against the various groups you mentioned exists, but at the same time, fighting that discrimination with MORE discrimination is not the way to go I think. I do not disagree with you about the assumptions of everyone to be male unless stated otherwise. But MacGyver has already summarized everything I was going to say in regard to that so I will not continue it here. Now I'll say it again, I don't really care about the actual issue of the stars here. It just pisses me off when people seem to think it's alright for anyone (be it a minority group or otherwise) to get special treatment/status/whatever over anyone else, (based on something like age, race, gender, sexual orientation...). If my views make me a racist, a homophobe, conservative, narrow-minded, insecure, and a prick; then so be it. And I'm not going to argue this any further. So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 57 on 4/22/2004 1:13 AM >   I made a pretty simple statement which was happily ignored. All or nothing. Sexual preference icons for all, or sexual preference icons for none. Thats perfectly fair. If group A gets an icon to show they are of one persuasion, then group B should be granted the same right to have an icon that shows their choice. Not given the option of no icon as an indicator... I find it highly ironic that member of a group that has suffered much discrimination would happily perpetrate it against others of another group. It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. cruty_bint   |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 58 on 4/22/2004 1:27 AM >   Posted by kn0wledge "Pissed that every day my personal and religious beliefs are being a little more eroded by flag-waving gay rights people who want to rub it in my face that they are gay and I am not." "And I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but being heterosexual is normal." "indeed I have seen no examples of bigotry towards homosexuals." Do you realise what you're writing here? Gay people have heterosexuality 'rubbed in their faces' everyday if you want to be obsequious about it. Normality is also a state of mind; do you consider yourself normal? Are you telling me I'm ab-normal? That there's something wrong with me? I did actually think you had a point about the pride flag (a very small oe anyway) but there's something wrong with your attitude You've by all means got the right to express yourself however you like; a right you seem to have no reluctance in exercising as is shown by this joke that you've now taken too far. I had hopes this link might have been hunurous in some way, but sadly it aint. There's no need to get so upset kn0wledge I'm not bigotted: I hate everyone equally kn0wledge  This member has been banned Location: Glasgow, UK Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  Re: Straight Pride Icon <Reply # 59 on 4/22/2004 1:38 AM >   Do you realise what you're writing here? Gay people have heterosexuality 'rubbed in their faces' everyday if you want to be obsequious about it. They do? Last time I checked, there were no straight rights parades, straight rights flags or anything like that in the UK. Indeed, I daresay if they did exist there would be utter outrage. Normality is also a state of mind; do you consider yourself normal? Are you telling me I'm ab-normal? That there's something wrong with me? Yes, I am normal. You are normal too, however what you choose to do is most certainly abnormal. If homosexuality were the norm, you and I would not be having this discussion now. ...there's something wrong with your attitude There is? I have tried to be as eloquent and respectful as I can be, and to put my point across well lest I offend anyone. I'm not a homophobe and neither am I narrow-minded. If you wish to view me as such, that is your prerogative. You've by all means got the right to express yourself however you like; a right you seem to have no reluctance in exercising as is shown by this joke that you've now taken too far. Believe me, this was no joke. I started this thread in all seriousness to make a point that equality should be for everyone, not a select group. You've somehow mangled that concept into that I was either taking the piss, or being outright homophobic. There's no need to get so upset kn0wledge Au contraire, there is. [last edit 4/22/2004 1:39 AM by kn0wledge - edited 1 times] In Nagasaki they like bukkake. UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Straight Pride Icon (Viewed 1374 times)  1 2 3 4 5   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. 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