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 busby
 
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
 |  | Avoiding Alarms?
< on 6/21/2009 6:10 PM >
|  | | | In a building I really want to thoroughly explore, there is an alarm blocking the path to the main section. I think it's motion detecting but I'm unsure. Is there any sure-fire way to distinguish between alarms?
Also, how can you get past an alarm. This particular one beeps when you get too close, any techniques or ideas? I don't want to shut off the power on the building or anything to arouse suspicion or cause harm/sabotage.
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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Intrinsic
     
Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 1 on 6/21/2009 6:29 PM >
| | | | A sonic signal or infrared detection alarm system (aka motion sensor) will have a small panel about the size of 2 inches squared. It's similar to a motion-activated light for your backyard.
If you see a whitish grey box similar to the one on the unit above, it's motion sensing. If it is infrared, you could try to hide your body heat using some silly methods. If it is sonic, you're S.O.L.
The fact it beeps when you get near it, probably answers the question you are asking. 
While the wiring is probably hidden in the walls, cutting the wire may also trigger the alarm (and upgrade your charges) as many sensors are on an open or closed circuit loop.
A closed circuit loop means that all the sensors are connected to one another and cutting one, breaks the loop. Alarm sounds.
Open circuit loop means that if a sensor is triggered it closes the loop.
It's better to have a closed circuit than open because cutting an open circuit will not change the pattern of electricity flowing.
Think of it like a garden hose.. would you want water flowing or not flowing to tell you if your hose was working?
[last edit 6/21/2009 6:33 PM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]
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busby
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 2 on 6/22/2009 2:11 PM >
| | | | Hmmm...thanks a lot for the info, it will come in handy. But I don't think I want to cut the alarm, so there isn't any other way to get around it? Any techniques of avoidance? If not, how depressing, alarms can ruin everything. I've been doing research and it says that you can sometimes see where detectors go and avoid them, is that true for all models?
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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Chris Hansen
I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC. Why dont you have a seat over there?
| |  |  | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 3 on 6/22/2009 3:13 PM >
| | | | i am not an alarm expert and certainly have no real experience on how to get past them but i do play a lot of splinter cell and the alarms in that game would possibly be like the one you have to defeat. now the first approach i suggest would be stick close to the wall and scoot under it very slowly. i dont know if that will work but i will include a diagram just to show you what i mean.
now my second approach i really have no clue if it would work but you could try it and that is just going really slow and quiet around the alarm beam as to make it look like there is as little as possible or no motion at all going through the beam.
Again i am not at all an alarm expert and have no clue as to if these will work but that is the best i can give you and good luck.
EDIT:
also if you could get a picture of the alarm that would be much easier to help us identify how to get past it. i understand if you cannot. again good luck.
[last edit 6/22/2009 3:15 PM by Chris Hansen - edited 1 times]
My name is Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator. Why don't you have a seat over there? |
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willskith
Location: Boston, MA
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 4 on 6/22/2009 3:25 PM >
| | | | Generally a motion detector uses reflected IR light to detect motion. There is no way humanly possible to trick them without fancy, expensive electrical gear. Simply going slowly will not work, you can only try to avoid them. The best thing to do if you have to go past one is to just try it and be ready to run. If you think it may be silent, try to trip it, then leave and wait for 20 minutes to see if anyone shows up.
grit your teeth in the face of fear. self repression is the true sign of a coward, toss your inhibitions to the wind. |
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Intrinsic
Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 5 on 6/22/2009 4:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by sheldontheflamingcat
i am not an alarm expert and certainly have no real experience on how to get past them but i do play a lot of splinter cell and the alarms in that game would possibly be like the one you have to defeat. now the first approach i suggest would be stick close to the wall and scoot under it very slowly. i dont know if that will work but i will include a diagram just to show you what i mean.
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When alarms are installed, the technicians who install them will place the sensors in strategic locations where traffic will be picked up immediately. For example, they will face entrances or towards doors. So slinking along a wall might work but there's a greater likelihood that the sensor will be placed in a spot that you won't be able to approach it undetected.
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busby
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 6 on 6/22/2009 6:52 PM >
| | | | Wow, thanks guys, all the help is really great. I'm going to plan another expedition and I'll take photos then. Last time we went there, we set off the alarm, ran like hell, came back twenty minutes later after no one responded, somehow managed to set it off and then hid outside. After 20 minutes a lone man came in and opened the door and then left. I'm almost certain he was just checking for activity because of the alarm but he didn't check the windows and the boards we took off to get it. I don't know if I should risk setting if off again because with so many set-offs in such little time, it may arouse suspicion and lead to him checking earlier next time and busting us.
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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Noxus
Location: Orlando
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 7 on 6/22/2009 11:14 PM >
| | | | I do believe there was an Episode of MythBusters that covered this. You should try looking it up because im too lazy to provide a link.
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Chris Hansen
I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC. Why dont you have a seat over there?
| | | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 8 on 6/23/2009 2:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by Noxus
I do believe there was an Episode of MythBusters that covered this. You should try looking it up because im too lazy to provide a link.
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http://mythbustersresults.com/episode59
it shows the confirmed and busted myths concerning some alarms.
My name is Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator. Why don't you have a seat over there? |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 10 on 6/23/2009 1:12 PM >
| | | | Those cheap IR's are easy to fool. Walk slow. Very slow. We used to fuck with the one at work. We could walk past it every time, but it took just over 5 minutes to move 50 ft.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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AnAppleSnail
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| | | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 11 on 6/23/2009 2:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by junkyard
Those cheap IR's are easy to fool. Walk slow. Very slow. We used to fuck with the one at work. We could walk past it every time, but it took just over 5 minutes to move 50 ft.
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Cheap ones alarm on a second-to-second change threshold, right?
Achievement Unlocked
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busby
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 12 on 6/23/2009 6:47 PM >
| | | | So mythbusters confirms you can avoid and alarm by either moving extremely slowly, or holding a sheet in front of you. The latter sounds good except if I get busted I'm not sure how to use a sheet as a credibility prop.
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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Noxus
Location: Orlando
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 13 on 6/23/2009 7:20 PM >
| | | | you could use the sheet and make believe your a ghost.
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busby
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 14 on 6/26/2009 1:03 PM >
| | | | Hmmm...why do I feel like that may not work. But nice contribution, haha. I just found out it also said the other way to get by was to hold a piece of glass in front of you and its more effective. Assuming I crouch, I would need a 2x2. Where's the best place to get cheap glass, Lowe's is a rip off.
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 15 on 7/5/2009 7:14 PM >
| | | | How the fuck are you going to get caught? The elcheapo alarm is green and goes to yellow if it thinks something is up, bak to green if you stop, to red if you don't. Red's when it does it's thing, whatever that is. Even if it alerts ADT, they have to call the police, who are notoriously fast in response time. You could be almost home before they get there. Now real alarms are a different story, but it still takes time to get there, more time than it takes to get out.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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busby
Location: New Paltz
Gender: Male
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 16 on 7/17/2009 12:53 AM >
| | | | I'd rather be able to throroughly explore the section of the building blocked off by alarms. I don't want to set if off and then take a quick peek and then run away. Whats the point? I wouldn't get to see anything real cause the cops would always end up coming. Plus apparently they plan on making the building into a police station so who knows who could be patrolling the area when the alarm blows. Thats why risking is a bad idea.
"Those who search the past are the ones who know the future"
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makman
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
I live alone with a criminal
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 17 on 7/17/2009 1:49 PM >
| | | | If you're patient, it might be worth tripping the alarm a few times over the course of a month or so and observing the results. Assuming they follow the pattern you described (one man, quick look around) each time, you can go in without too much trouble; just go in, tripping the alarm, and hide somewhere they won't find you without a thorough search (which they won't do because the alarm has been going off "on its own" several times in the last few weeks). Once they leave, you're free to explore to your heart's content.
Of course, there are a few ways that tact could fail, but at least you'll have some good info on how many security people will come, how fast, how motivated, etc, for if you decided to try some other method.
Be careful, not safe.
"Urbex- so much fun that it should be illegal." |
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injektilo
Location: The Northeast
Gender: Male
Ride or Die
| | | | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 18 on 7/17/2009 1:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by macman5151
If you're patient, it might be worth tripping the alarm a few times over the course of a month or so and observing the results. Assuming they follow the pattern you described (one man, quick look around) each time, you can go in without too much trouble; just go in, tripping the alarm, and hide somewhere they won't find you without a thorough search (which they won't do because the alarm has been going off "on its own" several times in the last few weeks). Once they leave, you're free to explore to your heart's content.
Of course, there are a few ways that tact could fail, but at least you'll have some good info on how many security people will come, how fast, how motivated, etc, for if you decided to try some other method.
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Depending on the abandonment the alarm may go off, but may not be hooked up to any phone system or monitoring facility. Recently I came across and alarm that tripped (by no fault of my own) and made a point of getting out of the location as fast as possible. After waiting a week and seeing no one respond I went back to the location and found the alarm still going off and not a thing changed since I left. This actually is a good thing as it keeps people out of the location. When they enter they hear the alarm and assume they tripped it and immediately leave.
If I was really created in God’s image then when God was a boy he wanted to grow up to be a man, a good man, and when God was a man, a good man, he started telling the truth in order to get honest responses. |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Avoiding Alarms?
<Reply # 19 on 7/22/2009 1:53 AM >
| | | | You've already said that they don't really check it out when triggered, so trigger it, cover it, and run away. The next day they will either ambush you or you will be home free. But really, you should be home free.
Cheap PIR (passive infra red) motion sensors have a bunch of what are essentially magnifying glasses across the face, which focus the infrared body heat onto 1/2/4. In your case, probably one or two sensors. This means as you walk across, differently slanted lenses will focus your heat into a spot that passes over the sensors, causing motion. Going really really slow should work, as the change in position, magnified as it is by the lenses, will cause changes below the level of the threshhold. Secondary thresholds set the size of the heat source required to trigger, so that pets could be excluded. This also means you don't have to worry about background IR.
Also, almost all alarm circuits are now closed, resistance based, so any tampering with the wiring, either cuts or jumpers, will be obvious to the monitoring system.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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