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 Zorb
 |  | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 20 on 2/28/2009 9:00 PM >
|  | | | AT&T Long Lines Microwave Repeater, Atlas, MI.
At one time this tower supported six Microwave links:
- Dryden (Have pictures, will have better soon)
- Flint (Don't believe it's there anymore, though have been surprised before)
- Millington (Haven't gotten a chance to get up there yet, by overlaying an old AT&T Map on Google Earth, I think I found it)
- Pine Run (Haven't looked at all)
- Oxford (I know it's not there anymore, I drive by its spot almost every day.)
- Milford (I think it is still there, it's still in FCC's listing)
These things are incredibly hard to spot from maps taken from the air, you might catch a shadow on the ground if the sun was right when the photo was taken. The AT&T maps aren't perfectly accurate, either, so most of my work is based on radius of circle (signal range was relatively short), avoidance of straight lines (the towers were staggered, vs. straight runs), and FCC listings that include height.
Still mapping them, still having fun, but help would be appreciated (and reciprocal).
This is from a (fairly short) distance, sorry about the wire in the middle, didn't feel like editing it. I will eventually.
Again, sorry about the wires. A little closer this time. The sky looked nice. Colorful, but not overly so. Fitting for the sunset of one of the most interesting things ever constructed.
Pretty good distance away, little bit over exposed, I know I should have cropped it rather than simply downscaling it. Was really busy.
A close up, highly zoomed in shot of the lower back side of one of the TD2 2500MHz horns. You can see where the waveguide would connect.
These were referred to as the Cornucopia antennas. Not sure if the name has significance. They ARE quite large, from having been on top of one of the towers, I can say they are easily taller than I am. The lower most one pictured (white), appears to still have the waveguide attached, as does possibly its mate (immediately above it), though it appears broken toward the bottom of the frame. Also can be seen is a civic/emergency radio antenna immediately above the strobe, and a part of a mobile telephone antenna at the bottom edge of the frame. I know it's overexposed. It's really getting quite dark out and I am doing my best to hide it.
Upward angle, from a couple hundred feet away. You can see a cellular antenna set about half way up, as well as warning lights (off) just below. The darkness that I have been trying to hide is beginning to show itself in my pictures. It will be time to go home soon.
It was really quite strange light outside. The skies were almost gray, but I could resolve a little color with the right angles and timings.
It really is starting to get dark out. I somehow caught the strobes in cycle in a bracketed shot. Impressive. (src) You can see the cellular antennas about mid way up, and some civic radio on top.
It really is dark out, this picture was taken just a minute r so after the one above. My batteries are almost dead, it is too dark, I am going home!
ISO 320 only gets you so far in this light, and I don't have a tripod with me.
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Louie
      
| |  | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 21 on 3/1/2009 12:25 AM >
|  | | | Are AM radio towers climbable?
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 22 on 3/1/2009 12:38 AM >
| | | | Posted by fatLouie
Are AM radio towers climbable?
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Go back and reread my earlier post on this topic.
In short: Do you want to die? Are you made of plastic or other nonconductive material? Are you unafraid of direct exposure to up to 50000 watts with electric potential of tens of thousands of volts? If you answer no to one of more of these questions, odds are you should probably not climb an AM radio tower.
However, in the strictest sense of the word, yes, they are climbable. Just buy a good life insurance policy first.
[last edit 3/1/2009 12:40 AM by Zorb - edited 1 times]
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Louie
| | | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 23 on 3/1/2009 4:41 AM >
| | | | My bad.
Are directional cell phone antennas worth worrying about?
[last edit 3/1/2009 4:52 AM by Louie - edited 1 times]
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Q1W2E3R4
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 24 on 3/1/2009 5:38 AM >
| | | | Nope.
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 25 on 3/1/2009 5:50 AM >
| | | | Directional? Cell towers' individual elements are omni directional and use a diversity methodology to select signal path. They have very low power, though, from 5 to 20 watts typically. I wouldn't just pitch my tent on top of the tower right next to the antenna and camp out, but short exposure shouldn't cook you too badly. Be careful if there is anything else up there, as a television station can exceed a million watts, and even a simple FM radio station can be a bit over 100000.
If you are in the United States, you should check the FCC database with the registration number that must by law be posted on the premesis. That would tell you exactly what is in the tower, what frequency(frequencies) is(are) assigned, how much power is allowed, it's height, and what equipment is at what height.
I only rarely climb, I prefer to avail myself of the power of the Olympus 300S telephoto lens, and study from a distance. A lot of the worthwhile towers near me are located in fairly observable areas, you wouldn't believe the looks people were giving me while I was taking my pictures of the old AT&T tower above. I even have a fairly dignified, non-threatening, non-juvenile sort of car (Cadillac Eldorado).
[last edit 3/1/2009 8:03 AM by Zorb - edited 2 times]
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 27 on 3/1/2009 5:13 PM >
| | | | Substations are not as interesting though, since there is so little variation between them.
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uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 28 on 3/1/2009 9:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by Zorb
Still mapping them, still having fun, but help would be appreciated (and reciprocal).
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Well there is one in downtown Raleigh, NC
http://nopromiseof...back-to-the-roots/
There are two in Cary, east of town and just north of Chatham Drive.
There is one in Baker's Corner, Indiana.
http://nopromiseof...7/11/21/microwave/
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 29 on 3/1/2009 10:01 PM >
| | | | You know, I think I will compile a little more of my own information into a post of my own. I really do hate thread-hijacking, and I feel I am starting to get into danger of doing this to someone else's thread (this one) right now. See you all in a bit.
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Louie
| | | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 30 on 3/2/2009 12:20 AM >
| | | | This is not thread jacking, it's as constructive as Ive seen in a while.
Ramble on!
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uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 31 on 3/2/2009 12:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Zorb
Directional? Cell towers' individual elements are omni directional and use a diversity methodology to select signal path. They have very low power, though, from 5 to 20 watts typically. I wouldn't just pitch my tent on top of the tower right next to the antenna and camp out, but short exposure shouldn't cook you too badly. Be careful if there is anything else up there, as a television station can exceed a million watts, and even a simple FM radio station can be a bit over 100000.
If you are in the United States, you should check the FCC database with the registration number that must by law be posted on the premesis. That would tell you exactly what is in the tower, what frequency(frequencies) is(are) assigned, how much power is allowed, it's height, and what equipment is at what height.
I only rarely climb, I prefer to avail myself of the power of the Olympus 300S telephoto lens, and study from a distance. A lot of the worthwhile towers near me are located in fairly observable areas, you wouldn't believe the looks people were giving me while I was taking my pictures of the old AT&T tower above. I even have a fairly dignified, non-threatening, non-juvenile sort of car (Cadillac Eldorado).
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Cell towers will kill your cell phone and fuck up your camera, though.
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 32 on 3/2/2009 12:59 AM >
| | | | Posted by uLiveAndYouBurn
Cell towers will kill your cell phone and fuck up your camera, though.
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Your tone makes it sound as though you speak from experience...?
http://www.longexposure.net |
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uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 33 on 3/2/2009 1:42 AM >
| | | | Posted by metawaffle
Your tone makes it sound as though you speak from experience...?
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http://nopromiseof...uency-fried-phone/
My rebel has produced some digital blue specks at high resolution ever since.
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 34 on 3/2/2009 1:44 AM >
| | | |
Digital battle scars!
http://www.longexposure.net |
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 35 on 3/2/2009 1:59 AM >
| | | | Some small electronics can be damaged by strong RF emissions, though it would surprise me if this happened with the signal levels produced by a cellular base radio.
Part of my every day work involves point to point RF data signaling (2.5GHz, 4GHz, 10GHz) and haven't damaged a phone yet. I've had a couple of my cameras pretty close though and never had a problem. Now, my every day carry around camera is an Olympus E10 which is quite old (still my favorite) by current standards, and a tank. It has an all metal case, which might afford some protection. I haven't taken my A590 (POS P&S) anywhere like that, so I don't know how it would stand up to radio signals.
All that being said, there are other, much higher wattage, things that you might find on a tower with cellular equipment. Some of these things could be dangerous to some electronics. Some police and fire radio systems work on a couple of hundred watts. Broadcast radio could be from a few hundred (the local WXOU FM at Oakland University is only 110 watts) to thousands (limit depends on height for FM, AM can't share towers with other things). Television stations could be over a million watts, though with DTV, it's a lot lower power.
Anyway, my bottom line is that a plain cellular tower should do no harm to your electronics. A more powerful radio might. Any directional (dish) microwave system strong enough to merit any warnings will likely do damage to your equipment if you get it directly in line with the radio signal at close range. 6 watts radiated omni directionally is a lot different from 6 watts focused into a 5 degree beam.
EDIT: I forgot to think of AMPS. Analog cellular, which operated until just a couple months ago, had base radios often sending out a couple hundred watts at around 850MHz. This could damage something as highly integrated as a modern digital cellular phone or to a lesser extent a digital camera if exposed for more than a couple minutes.
[last edit 3/2/2009 2:04 AM by Zorb - edited 1 times]
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Zorb
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 36 on 3/3/2009 5:16 AM >
| | | | I have a KMZ file of almost all Michigan AT&T Microwave sites, if anyone is interested.
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 37 on 3/3/2009 4:38 PM >
| | | | I want to share porn!
My cell was fine up there, as was my camera - although it does have a single red pixel misfiring during long night exposures... but I'm prettysure that's just from being old, since it didn't show up in any shots while I was up by the transmitters. Not that they couldn't do it, and I didn't walk straight up to em, gave em a few feet of space...
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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thoughtcriminal
Noble Donor
Location: Washington/Baltimore
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 38 on 3/5/2009 12:00 AM >
| | | | To knowledgeably answer fatLouie's AM tower question (I was chief engineer of more than one of small AM station back in what's almost a previous lifetime and the technology can be rather fascinating), the answer is "it depends." Obviously if the station is a daytimer (and it's the only station on the tower, multiple stations using one tower is more common now as land for towers gets harder to find/more expensive) it's going to be dead or nearly so after dark. Thousand-watt AM stations, particularly directionals with the power split across towers, are often climbed using a wooden ladder while live, taking extreme care not to use one's body to short the tower to ground. More powerful stations usually shut down, cut power way back or use other facilities to allow crews to safely climb them, at least during the time when they have to get on the tower or haul equipment (once on the tower, the power usually makes little difference, kind of like a bird on a power line).
Tower base voltages (meaning, how likely you are to be mildly zapped or injured) also vary depending on the frequency versus the tower height.
Correcting what was said above, AM sticks can in fact have other antennas on them, with lines isolated from the tower on insulators or by other special means to put them on the tower in a way that they don't short it out. This is often used for a small antenna, often an open-mesh dish, to receive the link from the station's studios.
The tower at http://farm4.stati...9_e6e76a04de_b.jpg is clearly an AM stick - you can tell by the three insulators on each guy line, and the big looped copper tube connecting the tower to what's probably a connection on a big glass insulator out the back wall of the hut. Though some AM towers have nonmetallic guy lines without insulators, and some non-AM towers sometimes have insulators for other reasons including detuning the tower as to not interfere with other nearby AM stations.
I should probably mention that messing with any radio station's facilities (at least here in the U.S.) can get you nailed with federal charges, particularly in these paranoid times. Anything with a broadcast or other radio license can fall under federal jurisdiction if anyone feels motivated to call in the feds.
Probably more info here than you'd ever want to know, but there it is.
Where the fuck is my Maypo? |
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Q1W2E3R4
| | Re: Climbing Radio Towers?
<Reply # 39 on 3/5/2009 12:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by thoughtcriminal
Though some AM towers have nonmetallic guy lines without insulators, and some non-AM towers sometimes have insulators for other reasons including detuning the tower as to not interfere with other nearby AM stations. |
Is there any risk of touching a AM tower guy wire?
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