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 BennyBear
Location: My zombie fort, plinking away.
Ach Hans, run! Its the lhurgoyf!!!!
 |  | Moral question-american flag
< on 12/3/2008 7:48 AM >
|  | | | I was recently exploring a school that had been abandoned, and in the gymnasium, there happened to be a flag hanging. The windows are all boarded up, the place is totally dark. There are two sets of bootprints in the dust; I am with one companion.
The flag was an American flag, good ol' stars and stripes. I know removing anything from a site is illegal, and the removal of most things is strictly verboten, but it seemed an exception could be made for this flag.
The question is, do you think it's moral to remove an American flag from this situation for a proper "funeral" or proud display elsewhere? As my companion aptly put it, "This beauty doesn't deserve this fate."
A little background on me:
I am an Eagle Scout, and work summers at a Boy Scout summer camp.
My father was in the Air Force, and my family is proud to be American.
I have grown up with tremendous respect for the flag and how to treat it, and treatment of such a flag does not involve being left in eternal darkness, scheduled for demolition.
P.S. I am aware that it is a bit presumptuous of a U.S. citizen to call it "The American" flag, but it's the vernacular, so please don't be offended.
My last girlfriend was lesbian...
"If you're not part of the solution, you aren't dissolved in the solvent" |
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El Gordo
Gender: Male
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 1 on 12/3/2008 9:05 AM >
|  | | | If I remember the flag "rules" the school should have removed it and properly stored or disposed of it when it was abandoned, so I would say that you would be well justified to take care of it yourself.
I'm not concerned too heavily with this type of thing myself but I understand where the people who are are coming from.
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DevilC
   
Location: Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| |  | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 2 on 12/3/2008 9:09 AM >
| | | | DO you have to ask to do what's right?
You do not have to apologize for revering our nation's flag.
If you see it there, secure it and dispose of it properly.
Posted by BennyBear
P.S. I am aware that it is a bit presumptuous of a U.S. citizen to call it "The American" flag, but it's the vernacular, so please don't be offended.
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Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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WarBird69
  
Location: Eastern TN
Gender: Male
Atomic Bird of War
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 3 on 12/3/2008 10:30 AM >
| | | | Definately. Take that flag and dispose of it properly. If you don't want to do it yourself, local Boy Scout troop, military base, or VFW post would be happy to take it off your hands I'd bet.
Glad to see another Eagle Scout lurking around! I got mine in 1998 (maybe 1999...forgot exact year). Its gotten me into some good situations so far in my young life!
When twilight draws near, when you are pushed to the very limits of your soul, when it seems that all you have left are the dead remnants of the fabric of your life:
-- BELIEVE |
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Steed
 
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 4 on 12/3/2008 12:21 PM >
| | | | Come to think of it, I've never come across a flag (not counting images of flags) while exploring. Absolutely take it out and be glad you did.
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PhotoSeeker
Location: Sudbury
Gender: Male
MikeOnline
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 5 on 12/3/2008 12:26 PM >
| | | | I'm pretty hardcore, militant about the removal of objects from sites. But I'm also a bit anal where flags are concerned.
I think that, since the property owners did not execute proper protocol with the flag, it is your duty to. I think if flag protocol were a more widely known, understood concept, this thread wouldn't be here, and the question would be unneccessary.
Lots of Urban Exploration goodness at https://urbexobsession.com |
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Azubi.UK
Location: UK / KSA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 6 on 12/3/2008 12:39 PM >
| | | | It is wonderful to see such an attitude regarding one's National flag. I only wish such an attitude was prevalent over here.
The 11th Commandment: Don't get caught! |
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Tetrodotoxin
Location: NNJ
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 7 on 12/3/2008 12:42 PM >
| | | | i'd leave it. sure, they didn't properly handle the flag, but it's now part of the site. how did you feel when you came through there and saw our flag hanging? shouldn't other explorers be able to feel that way too?
maybe it was left there for a reason. i recall when soldiers left make shift infrastructures in the pacific theater, they left flags for the fallen. years later they returned. the flags were tattered, sun bleached. they still left them there.
plus, i hate to slippery slope, but it starts with this flag and then...
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Azubi.UK
Location: UK / KSA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 8 on 12/3/2008 12:45 PM >
| | | | Everyone has to make thier own moral choices. It isn't the right of any of us to tell others what to do as they must live with the consequences of their own actions.
The 11th Commandment: Don't get caught! |
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galax
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Gender: Male
If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all.
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 9 on 12/3/2008 12:54 PM >
| | | | i say burn it
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws." |
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ActionSatisfaction Esq.
Location: Newark, NJ
Gender: Male
Action always satisfies
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 10 on 12/3/2008 1:12 PM >
| | | | Posted by galax
i say burn it
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That's very original. Congrats for coming up with something nobody could've seen coming from a million miles away. 
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." - T.R. |
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shellyl
Location: Lenoir NC
Gender: Female
I have learned not sweat the petty things and not to pet the sweaty things.
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 11 on 12/3/2008 1:32 PM >
| | | | I agree with the majority here. Take it and retire it.
It amazes me what people do with flags. There is a house down the road from me that has a garden flag for every season and holiday. They also have Nascar driver and sports team flags they change out often. Their American flag is faded and torn. I been tempted more than once to go there some night and leave them a new one.
A mirage is not an optical illusion. It is a real phenomenon, and one can take photographs of it. The interpretation of the image, however, is up to the fantasy of the human mind.
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Tetrodotoxin
Location: NNJ
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 12 on 12/3/2008 1:47 PM >
| | | | i mean, i've never come across logs or documents, but if i did and found them relative or interesting...i might want to keep them. archive them.
but where does it end? i don't know.
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PhotoSeeker
Location: Sudbury
Gender: Male
MikeOnline
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 13 on 12/3/2008 2:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by galax
i say burn it
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That IS the accepted way to retire a flag, so long as it's done with dignity.
Lots of Urban Exploration goodness at https://urbexobsession.com |
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Steed
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 14 on 12/3/2008 3:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by galax
i say burn it
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Not sure how Americans do it, but isn't burning part of an appropriate flag-retiring ritual?
EDIT: Yep, you do it the same as us.
http://www.pueblo....flag/flaglaws3.htm
§176.(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
[last edit 12/3/2008 3:15 PM by Steed - edited 1 times]
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Aleksandar
Location: United States
Gender: Male
your darkest shadow, my oldest friend; the world's become ashes, this is the end.
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 15 on 12/3/2008 3:40 PM >
| | | | conscience trumps rules.
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom. |
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SoNaive
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Gender: Male
Why did it come as a surprise, to think that i was SoNaive
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 16 on 12/3/2008 4:31 PM >
| | | | I say burn ActionSatisfaction.
anyways, to me, it's just a flag. it would be the same as taking someone's underwear out of an abandonment. just a piece of cloth.
I never understood the obsession with flags.
Prinny Dude! |
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blacksunshine
Location: The Midwest
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 17 on 12/3/2008 4:51 PM >
| | | | My personal view is:
If I were to come across a flag, in total darkness or abandoned it's coming back with me.
If you're looking to take it and display it, or keep it, etc. just leave it be. If you're going to retire it, give it to a historical society, etc. then take it with.
“Try not to become a man of success rather try to become a man of value.”
–Albert Einstein |
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shellyl
Location: Lenoir NC
Gender: Female
I have learned not sweat the petty things and not to pet the sweaty things.
| | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 18 on 12/3/2008 4:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by SoNaive
I say burn ActionSatisfaction.
anyways, to me, it's just a flag. it would be the same as taking someone's underwear out of an abandonment. just a piece of cloth.
I never understood the obsession with flags.
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Ouch! But then again you are entitled to your feelings and beliefs just as the rest of us. I guess it is much like how I feel about one of the 2 topics not allowed outside of private boards and it is not politics. Gotta be there on certain day in a certain place and so on.
A mirage is not an optical illusion. It is a real phenomenon, and one can take photographs of it. The interpretation of the image, however, is up to the fantasy of the human mind.
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NAN
Location: rochester NY
bathroom expert
| | | Re: Moral question-american flag
<Reply # 19 on 12/3/2008 4:56 PM >
| | | | Posted by SoNaive
anyways, to me, it's just a flag. it would be the same as taking someone's underwear out of an abandonment. just a piece of cloth.
I never understood the obsession with flags.
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I totally agree with you
Through the darkness of future's past
The magician longs to see
Once chants out between two worlds Fire, walk with me |
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