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 DJ Craig
         
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
 |  |  |  | "Private" drains?
< on 9/19/2008 7:06 PM >
|  | | | I've been keeping an eye on a large drain entrance that appears to lead underneath the local mall. From what I've heard, this drain is entirely underneath the mall, and exits on the other side. I do know that, with local laws, the drains are considered public waterways and thus not trespassing. But the entrance to this drain is very conspicuous and it has a no trespassing sign. Could this drain possibly be owned by the mall, as opposed to being owned by the city? And if so, could this make it an exception to the "public waterways" rule?
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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trent
I'm Trent! Get Bent!
Location: Drainwhale hunting
Gender: Male
Not on UER anymore.
| | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 1 on 9/19/2008 7:42 PM >
| | | | If it's only on their property and isn't part of a county or city-wide system, then yah, it probably is the malls own private property. Though I've never heard of public waterways before (not doubting, just never heard of 'em)
I would assume that it's all drainage from the parking lots and the outfalls you're seeing are in or near the water collection ponds at in the corner of the property?
What type of diameter pipe are we talking about. I am envisioning something like a 4 footer? If you can fully stand up in it, then this and the previous paragraphs may not be accurate and we might be talking about some other kind of system.
He who rules the underground, rules the city above.
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DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 2 on 9/19/2008 8:28 PM >
| | | | The drains are easily big enough to stand up in. The entrance I'm looking at is where the water is coming out of a large round metal drain that comes out from under the main street, and the water flows into a square concrete tunnel. There is about a 20 foot gap in between the end of the round drain that I would say probably belongs to the city, and the beginning of the square drain.
I heard the "public waterways" thing from a friend of mine who is a surveyor. He is currently working on a project to map the really old drain network that goes under the city. When he goes into the drains every day, he just puts on some waders and walks in; no uniform or anything to indicate that he is a worker. He's never had anyone say anything to him. But I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if he's wrong about the "public waterways" thing. Is that uncommon? The drains he works in are *very* large drains; easily big enough to drive two SUVs down side by side.
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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Spaceman Spiff
Location: Salem, OR and Evergreen, CO
Gender: Male
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 3 on 9/19/2008 8:28 PM >
| | | | I know exactly what you're talking about DJ Craig, and I've explored this type of drain before. There's a drain at my local shopping mall that has a reasonably conspicuous entrance, which is locked and has a "No trespassing, video surveillance" sign on it. Instead of trying to pick the lock, we just followed the drain's approximate path to the next manhole, and popped in from there. It's about a 7' diameter RCP with a junction room and two major forks that go around the perimeter of the parking lots. When we were inside, the sprinklers came on down one fork (but there wasn't enough water to pose any threat), so we took the other just to stay dry. The pipe was a shrinker, so we popped a manhole from below and checked for mall security before hopping out into the parking lot.
As for ownership, I'd bet that the drain was private property, owned and built by the mall. If we'd been caught, trespassing laws probably would have applied.
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trent
I'm Trent! Get Bent!
Location: Drainwhale hunting
Gender: Male
Not on UER anymore.
| | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 4 on 9/19/2008 8:33 PM >
| | | | That sounds pretty interesting. Not what I was expecting for a mall. I'm really wondering if it's for a bigger system then, not just mall parking lot drainage.
He who rules the underground, rules the city above.
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musket boy
Location: Maui
Gender: Male
It smells like your grandpa and your feet stick to the floor
| | | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 5 on 9/19/2008 9:44 PM >
| | | | theres a drain like that near my house, it goes under the mall and is completely surrounded by private property and has a no trespassing sign, just go at night when nobody's there
uering |
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Spaceman Spiff
Location: Salem, OR and Evergreen, CO
Gender: Male
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 6 on 9/19/2008 10:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by trent
That sounds pretty interesting. Not what I was expecting for a mall. I'm really wondering if it's for a bigger system then, not just mall parking lot drainage.
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Well, it is an enormous shopping mall, not just your average strip mall. The mall + parking lots cover at least a square mile of land. When we got to the end of the RCP, there was still a small pipe that continued, but it was only a foot or two in diameter.
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siologen
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
I Go Where The Drains Are
| | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 8 on 9/22/2008 7:40 PM >
| | | | Given 90% of the worlds drains arent enterable by law, i wouldnt worry about it being owned by a Shopping Centre. Its a drain, as long as the Mall security dont see you entering it id just go for it.
Big Drayyynes!
http://siologen.livejournal.com Blog |
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Billis
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Gender: Male
Nuthing Beats this Ninja
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 9 on 10/2/2008 9:17 PM >
| | | | I totally LOL'D at the pic with the truck in the drain.
I could just see a big wave of water coming
"Just tear everything down and hope that whatever comes afterwards is better, you are your own little Chaos Theory..." |
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Twystr
Location: 39.2N, 104.17W Elev. 6535ft
Gender: Male
Gimme Biggah Drayyyyynes!
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 10 on 10/3/2008 1:48 AM >
| | | | As did I... That drain is insanely big... But like Texas, It's Bigger There. (tm)
AS for on-topic:
We have a pair of drains that are privately owned, and city-maintained up at Chapel Hills mall on the north end of town.
Both aren't shown on City GIS Maps, and were built for the mall, by the developer. They do, however take on City storm water after leaving the mall property, going towards the Infall. So I guess its a "dual-ownership" drain.
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."
-Ben Franklin |
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 11 on 10/3/2008 2:43 AM >
| | | | Posted by siologen
Given 90% of the worlds drains arent enterable by law...
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Are there any places in which it's definitely not an offense to enter a drain?
http://www.longexposure.net |
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Iscran
You guys offer tours right?
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 12 on 10/3/2008 3:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by metawaffle
Are there any places in which it's definitely not an offense to enter a drain?
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Ya, the drain you build in your back yard to practice sneaking into other peoples drains.
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Assistance
"Run Away! It's an... um... Run away!"
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 13 on 10/3/2008 3:19 AM >
| | | | Posted by Iscran
Ya, the drain you build in your back yard to practice sneaking into other peoples drains.
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Is there something you'd like to tell us about that?
Sometimes I wonder if my obsession with flashlights led to my interest in Urban Exploration, or conversely, if my
interest in exploration led to my flashlight obsession |
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tick
Location: Abingdon, VA
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 14 on 10/3/2008 3:38 AM >
|  | | | Posted by metawaffle
Are there any places in which it's definitely not an offense to enter a drain?
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In Virginia it's perfectly legal to go in drains, unless there's a "no trespassing" sign. I expect most other states are the same way.
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DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 15 on 10/8/2008 9:04 AM >
| | | | So I found out the answer to my question. I went in a few days ago at night. We were very lazy about trying not to get caught just because we never seem to have any problem with draining locally, and we do it all the time. When we came out, we decided to walk back to the entrance where we had gone in, where the car was parked. As we were walking back through the mall parking lot carrying waders, a mall security guard stopped us and said that he had written down our tag number and if he saw us back there, we would be charged with criminal trespassing. We started talking to him and once he realized that we weren't vandals or ghost hunters (lol!), he was actually very friendly. He said that, even though it *is* legal to explore the city's drains by local law, this did not apply to the drains under the mall because they are private property, not city drains. However, the entrance to the drain is just barely off mall property, and the drain also goes a long way under the main road (although the part of the drain that is off mall property, under the road was very clearly built at a different time to the part that goes under the mall). I definitely plan to go back, and just go in through the entrance that is across the street from the mall. And I plan on parking somewhere a little less conspicuous during the day, and going back the way I came, instead of walking down the sidewalk with waders. 
The drain is very long, modern and has a very smooth concrete floor...thus, I plan on going back with skates! In fact, I'm considering getting some of my old speed skating team members back together for an underground reunion. Can't wait...
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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Archer182
Location: Wyoming
Gender: Male
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 16 on 10/29/2008 11:49 PM >
| | | | Hey guys just be careful interring tunnels, H2s gas can build up in there and this can be deadly.
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S, CAS# 7783-06-4) is an extremely hazardous, toxic compound. It is a colourless, flammable gas that can be identified in relatively low concentrations, by a characteristic rotten egg odor. The gas occurs naturally in coal pits, sulfur springs, gas wells, and as a product of decaying sulfur-containing organic matter, particularly under low oxygen conditions. It is therefore commonly encountered in places such as sewers, sewage treatment plants (H2S is often called sewer gas), manure stockpiles, mines, hot springs, and the holds of fishing ships. Industrial sources of hydrogen sulfide include petroleum and natural gas extraction and refining, pulp and paper manufacturing, rayon textile production, leather tanning, chemical manufacturing and waste disposal.
Hydrogen sulfide has a very low odor threshold, with its smell being easily perceptible at concentrations well below 1 part per million (ppm) in air. The odor increases as the gas becomes more concentrated, with the strong rotten egg smell recognisable up to 30 ppm. Above this level, the gas is reported to have a sickeningly sweet odor up to around 100 ppm. However, at concentrations above 100 ppm, a person's ability to detect the gas is affected by rapid temporary paralysis of the olfactory nerves in the nose, leading to a loss of the sense of smell. This means that the gas can be present at dangerously high concentrations, with no perceivable odor. Prolonged exposure to lower concentrations can also result in similar effects of olfactory fatigue. This unusual property of hydrogen sulfide makes it extremely dangerous to rely totally on the sense of smell to warn of the presence of the gas.
Health Effects of Hydrogen Sulfide
H2S is classed as a chemical asphyxiant, similar to carbon monoxide and cyanide gases. It inhibits cellular respiration and uptake of oxygen, causing biochemical suffocation. Typical exposure symptoms include:
Low 0 - 10 ppm Irritation of the eyes, nose and throat
med10 - 50 ppm Headache Dizziness
Nausea and vomiting Coughing and breathing difficulty
High 50 - 200 ppm Severe respiratory tract irritation
Eye irritation / acute conjunctivitis
Shock
Convulsions
Coma
Death in severe cases
Prolonged exposures at lower levels can lead to bronchitis, pneumonia, migraine headaches, pulmonary edema, and loss of motor coordination.
Just be careful
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Amos-0
"Become good at cheating and you never have to become good at anything else"
| | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 17 on 10/29/2008 11:57 PM >
| | | | damn, thats sorta intense. Has anyone encountered this, how often does someone run into this problem
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: "Private" drains?
<Reply # 18 on 10/30/2008 12:06 AM >
| | | | Posted by Amos
damn, thats sorta intense. Has anyone encountered this, how often does someone run into this problem
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I haven't heard of the likes of us drain tourists falling foul, but there are certainly stories of maintenance workers running into it.
http://www.longexposure.net |
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