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1 2   UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > I guess this isn't common sense after all... (Viewed 1009 times) Reciprocity Failure  Location: Santa Barbara/Chicago Gender: Male See you on the dark side of the Moon  |  |  I guess this isn't common sense after all... < on 10/30/2006 8:11 AM >   When I am out exploring with a group, I find it to be common sense to discuss a course of action beforehand, covering the event of police showing up. I generally like to come up with at least "Do we run or stay?", "Is everyone with us physically capable of running from the police?", "Do we split up or stay together?", and "Where do we go once we get away?" I also like to make sure that nobody has anything illegal, pot for example, or at the very least know who has what. If my buddy is carrying something illegal and I am clean, I would do my best to draw attention away from him. The reason I mention this is that I thought it was common sense to figure out beforehand, but I was talking to my buddy and apparently he was out last week with a group, and one of the explorers had sprained his ankle pretty badly during the beginning of the expedition. He decided to push on though, so as to not ruin things for everyone. Well, as I'm sure you guessed, the cops showed and everyone split other than the guy with the messed up ankle. He was in too much pain to run, so he hid out in some closet. He managed to avoid detection, but my buddy realized what happened and went back to help him, and wound up very nearly getting caught himself. Now, being caught is one thing, but when a group of people decides to cheese it and you are the only one caught....well, that's a whole new can of worms entirely. I've been the only one standing when everyone takes off and it's not cool. Fortunately it was only a rent-a-cop who didn't care too much, but with real cops it's a different situation. Not only do you have to deal with explaining yourself (which is alot harder when running is involved....running is basically an admission of guilt) but you also have to deal with the cops wanting to know everyones names and information. That's always a tough situation, and something you should also discuss beforehand. Where am I going with this? Basically, just a reminder to work out a plan of action beforehand. Everyone's "fight or flight" instinct is different. Some people are inclined to run at the slightest sign of danger, whereas some will stay and face the music. Generally, it's best to get everyone on the same page, because when you see blue and red lights flashing thru the windows, you really don't have much time to get everyone on board with the same plan. As for what that plan should be, only you know that. It all depends on who you are with, what you are taking with you, and where you are. "It only takes one tree to make a thousand matches, it only takes one match to burn a thousand trees." ghosteater  Location: Saint Louis Gender: Male  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 1 on 10/30/2006 1:19 PM >   Very sensible, a little bit of forethought seems to help when the "fight" or flight instinct kicks in. I've been in a situation where a few friends and I were approaching a bridge, not even really on private property yet, and suddenly police lights were basically on top of us. We had'nt talked about a plan yet, and with the total adrenaline kicking in someone yelled "RUN!" So we haul off down the river side until I fall into a two foot hole, losing my glasses in the process. I was the one caught and had to explain why we were running. A little bit of planning and we probably wouldn't have bailed. Emma Peel  Location: Ahowah Gender: Female Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 2 on 10/30/2006 2:07 PM >   Posted by Reciprocity Failure Not only do you have to deal with explaining yourself (which is alot harder when running is involved....running is basically an admission of guilt) but you also have to deal with the cops wanting to know everyones names and information. That's always a tough situation, and something you should also discuss beforehand. Um ... take it from someone whose partner said too much in jail (so much that it got us a second trespassing charge) --- you don't know WHO those other guys were. "Some guys I met up with. I don't know ... Jake? John? Sorry, I'm new to the group and bad with names." Don't give the other guys up. And running? Not an admission of guilt. An admission of guilt? THAT is an admission of guilt. When you say, "We took some artifacts," you're guilty of burglary in the first degree. When you say, "We like to take some artifacts, usually," you're guilty of burglary in the second degree. Don't be stupid. Pla the dumb citizen/PWN card, and they'll generally believe you. Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. cute_boy  Location: Ontario Gender: Male  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 3 on 11/3/2006 10:01 PM >   Cops dont really care if your sneaking into abandoned buildings and take only pictures and leave only footprints that if you run the wont even bother chasing you because the fact is you are not making the city and dangerous place, your not harming anyone, and there are a lot worse criminals to deal with than you. But if you run into a cop who's having a really bad day or what not and good phrase to use is "i don't know" because in court, you could say you didn't know whether you should answer the question and you're not giving up any information all the same. Also you do not have to consent to any searches right there and then and you need to verbally make the cop aware of this. Also you do not have to show the cop your ID in the middle of the road, and one last thing, first amendment rights are dead, if the cop doesn't tell you that you have the right to remain silent, it doesn't mean everything you say will be thrown out of court. Although i'm telling you right now that if all you were really doing was taking pictures of some old building, you have nothing illegal on you and your not dressed light some stealthy cat burglar your best option is just to cooperate and be friendly with the cop. No signature needed nomeus  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: FLA Gender: Male www.FLURBEX.com  |  |  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 4 on 11/3/2006 10:45 PM >   all great suggestions. im not a runner. www.terraincognito.com Edmond_Dantes  Location: Texas Gender: Male Dance Your Cares Away  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 5 on 11/4/2006 2:01 AM >   Always have a plan. and NEVER leave a man behind. pure cowardice if you ask me. ...They will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines! nomeus  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: FLA Gender: Male www.FLURBEX.com  |  |  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 6 on 11/4/2006 2:43 AM >   Posted by Edmond_Dantes Always have a plan. and NEVER leave a man behind. pure cowardice if you ask me. i was talking about that exact thing here http://www.uer.ca/...rrpage=2&pp#post22 www.terraincognito.com Emma Peel  Location: Ahowah Gender: Female Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 7 on 11/4/2006 4:41 AM >   Posted by cute_boy I'm willing to take a big leap here and guess that you've never been caught while in the act of trespassing, and you've probably never been to jail for it. Let me tell you, *IT'S A GREAT TIME. Note the sarcasm. Cops dont really care if your sneaking into abandoned buildings and take only pictures and leave only footprints that if you run the wont even bother chasing you because the fact is you are not making the city and dangerous place, your not harming anyone, and there are a lot worse criminals to deal with than you. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god what a great joke. Seriously? Hi, I'm Emma, and I don't run from cops. You know why? I can't outrun their dogs, and those cops don't have any IDEA what I was doing in that building -- I COULD BE RUNNING A METH LAB. But they want me, dog-bitten, clubbed, or given up on my own (which I chose to do). And I COOPERATIVELY explained to these cops, who claimed they knew what UE was, that I was there and I was doing the "leave only footprints" thing and don't tag, and don't even take pictures because it is other people's property, let alone taking "artifacts." I'm there for the historical value of the place, whatever. And all five cops who questioned me that I told this to, they all agreed I was only trespassing in their reports (which I got upon release from jail the next morning). Until I got to jail. When I got to jail? THEY SLAPPED BURGLARY IN THE SECOND DEGREE (INTENT to steal shit, though I'm small and didn't even have a bag with me) on me, AS WELL AS Possession of Burglary tools (I had a flashlight). The reason they did this? about ten-thousand dollars worth difference in bail for me to pay. Woo. They simply felt like being jerks. Hey, GUESS WHAT. No matter who the hell you are, what the hell you're doing, if you're doing something ILLEGAL, to a cop, YOU'RE A FUCKING CRIMINAL. Let me quote some quality Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing here: "Yeah, I know. I'm guilty. I understand that. I knew it was a crime, and I did it anyways. Shit, why argue? I'm a fucking criminal, look at me!" Uh, don't do that, unless you have a cop that will accept a kiss in exchange for your freedom. Whether you failed to pull over on time, TRESPASSED, smoked some weed, or killed somebody, YOU'RE STILL A CRIMINAL, AND ALL CRIMINALS ARE TREATED EQUALLY. A cop's job is to keep scumbag, law-breaking, anarchy-inciting, BOUNDARY-PUSHERS like you off of the streets. The WORST POSSIBLE and DUMBEST thing you can do is cooperate, even to explain your innocense (or guilt). The cops are trained to fuck with your head, to twist your words around against you, and to PREVENT YOU FROM BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF. So shut up, and demand your lawyer immediately. But if you run into a cop who's having a really bad day or what not and good phrase to use is "i don't know" because in court, you could say you didn't know whether you should answer the question and you're not giving up any information all the same. Oh. My. God. Learn from my mistakes, and every other moron who actually talks to cops: YOU SAY, "I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS UNTIL I HAVE A LAWYER PRESENT. I REQUEST MY LAWYER RIGHT NOW." And after that? They'll try to continue to question you, but it will be VERY illegal. After you say that, and while they still question you? YOU SUDDENLY DON'T HAVE A VOICE BOX. Nope. None. "Anything you say can and WILL be used against you ..." keyword WILL. It's true. Because those officers CAN and WILL twist your words around to make you look guilty when you might not be. The cops will try and tell you, "If you cooperate with me, the judge will be more likely to go easy on you tomorrow morning." LIE. BIG FAT LIE. It doesn't matter what you say to him (ie NOTHING), the judge NEVER HEARS A WORD. So don't cooperate beyond retaining control over yourself and fighting the urge to act like you are deeply regretting your insult to society's bullshit laws. God. You guys just. All of you --- either get caught and then go to jail, or DON'T act like you're speaking from experience. Bottom line? "I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS UNTIL I HAVE A LAWYER PRESENT. I DEMAND A COURT-APPOINTED LAWYER IMMEDIATELY." (You can change later if you'd like, but @ least this forces THEM to find a lawyer to advocate for you, so you don't have to miraculously find one while in jail). Just ... shut up and let your new LAWYER do all the talking for you. Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. nomeus  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: FLA Gender: Male www.FLURBEX.com  |  |  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 8 on 11/4/2006 4:49 AM >   interesting www.terraincognito.com ems_ranger   |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 9 on 11/4/2006 2:34 PM >   IMHO Groups are asking for problems - even with preplanning the are only as strong as weakest person- and they always get caught and talk. Groups attract attention, are hard to manage and control, if you have one person that vandalizes YOU all vandalize, if one gives the cops a hard time you all get a hard time, if one runs others will, if one is caught more will be, stories will never match. I can go on - but for me 2-3 is the max for a group and they should be trusted or known - NO FRIENDS OF FRIENDS. Also I am fairly honest w/cops or rentacops - walk up, give name up front, just taking some pics for a school art project neat area, golly gee sorry, didn't know was off limits ---i'll leave right away. Asking for lawyer right away will guarantee trip to local holding tank and need for lawyer. achadwick  Location: Leavenworth KS Gender: Female  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 10 on 11/4/2006 9:34 PM >   I have been caught a couple of times, but I have always approached the cop before he comes up on us, say hey how are you doing something like that. Act nonchalant like your passing him in a mall, tell the truth about what your doing - just looking around, taking photos, its always worked for me. The only time I lie is when I say I didnt know I was trespassing or on private property. cute_boy  Location: Ontario Gender: Male  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 11 on 11/11/2006 6:54 PM >   I was not pretending that i was some UE badboy and that i get busted every day infact Emma is right, i have never been charged or taken to court even. I have been talked to a lot, and ran away a lot. I can't outrun their dogs Last time i checked where im live cops dont have dogs in their patrol cars and dont call for insane back up because they have met someone wandering around an abandoned building. They simply felt like being jerks. Where i can from the cops around here a actually not to bad in being jerky. When i talk to the they actually want to help me, then think im some neglected kid and they give me number to call and programs to join and such. I think the real difference is that we're not in the same situation when running into cops. Although your profile says you're 1 and mine well over 100 i think it is clear that I am younger and you are an adult, so cops actually want to help me, where is you... THEY SLAPPED BURGLARY IN THE SECOND DEGREE (INTENT to steal shit, though I'm small and didn't even have a bag with me) on me, AS WELL AS Possession of Burglary tools (I had a flashlight If this is true than dont worry about it, you wont be guilty, they probably did it just to try to scare you if they were making a deal. And also 2 times my friend was given a fine right there, no court or anything, just a $60 fine, and he said the cops were nice about it, he even showed them some pictures and they said it was cool. Anyways I'm not sure how your situation turned into 5 cops questioning you and spending a night in jail but most from my experience are pretty nice guys, thats not to say that there are those jerk cops, or cops having a bad day. Also i think your situation decreases if someone calls the cops vs. them just seeing you go in while on patrol. Anyways, I think my advice is if your like me, younger, quick runner, good a seeming neglected and wanting help, and want to avoid any court at all, even just a trip to the station and Emmas might be better if your older, and just dont want to be charged No signature needed Jef  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male Hey Look at me....  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 12 on 11/17/2006 8:08 AM >   Posted by Emma Peel I'm willing to take a big leap here and guess that you've never been caught while in the act of trespassing, and you've probably never been to jail for it. Let me tell you, *IT'S A GREAT TIME. Note the sarcasm. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god what a great joke. Seriously? Hi, I'm Emma, and I don't run from cops. You know why? I can't outrun their dogs, and those cops don't have any IDEA what I was doing in that building -- I COULD BE RUNNING A METH LAB. But they want me, dog-bitten, clubbed, or given up on my own (which I chose to do). And I COOPERATIVELY explained to these cops, who claimed they knew what UE was, that I was there and I was doing the "leave only footprints" thing and don't tag, and don't even take pictures because it is other people's property, let alone taking "artifacts." I'm there for the historical value of the place, whatever. And all five cops who questioned me that I told this to, they all agreed I was only trespassing in their reports (which I got upon release from jail the next morning). Until I got to jail. When I got to jail? THEY SLAPPED BURGLARY IN THE SECOND DEGREE (INTENT to steal shit, though I'm small and didn't even have a bag with me) on me, AS WELL AS Possession of Burglary tools (I had a flashlight). The reason they did this? about ten-thousand dollars worth difference in bail for me to pay. Woo. They simply felt like being jerks. Hey, GUESS WHAT. No matter who the hell you are, what the hell you're doing, if you're doing something ILLEGAL, to a cop, YOU'RE A FUCKING CRIMINAL. Let me quote some quality Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing here:"Yeah, I know. I'm guilty. I understand that. I knew it was a crime, and I did it anyways. Shit, why argue? I'm a fucking criminal, look at me!" Uh, don't do that, unless you have a cop that will accept a kiss in exchange for your freedom. Whether you failed to pull over on time, TRESPASSED, smoked some weed, or killed somebody, YOU'RE STILL A CRIMINAL, AND ALL CRIMINALS ARE TREATED EQUALLY. A cop's job is to keep scumbag, law-breaking, anarchy-inciting, BOUNDARY-PUSHERS like you off of the streets. The WORST POSSIBLE and DUMBEST thing you can do is cooperate, even to explain your innocense (or guilt). The cops are trained to fuck with your head, to twist your words around against you, and to PREVENT YOU FROM BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF. So shut up, and demand your lawyer immediately. Oh. My. God. Learn from my mistakes, and every other moron who actually talks to cops: YOU SAY, "I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS UNTIL I HAVE A LAWYER PRESENT. I REQUEST MY LAWYER RIGHT NOW." And after that? They'll try to continue to question you, but it will be VERY illegal. After you say that, and while they still question you? YOU SUDDENLY DON'T HAVE A VOICE BOX. Nope. None. "Anything you say can and WILL be used against you ..." keyword WILL. It's true. Because those officers CAN and WILL twist your words around to make you look guilty when you might not be. The cops will try and tell you, "If you cooperate with me, the judge will be more likely to go easy on you tomorrow morning." LIE. BIG FAT LIE. It doesn't matter what you say to him (ie NOTHING), the judge NEVER HEARS A WORD. So don't cooperate beyond retaining control over yourself and fighting the urge to act like you are deeply regretting your insult to society's bullshit laws. God. You guys just. All of you --- either get caught and then go to jail, or DON'T act like you're speaking from experience. Bottom line? "I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS UNTIL I HAVE A LAWYER PRESENT. I DEMAND A COURT-APPOINTED LAWYER IMMEDIATELY." (You can change later if you'd like, but @ least this forces THEM to find a lawyer to advocate for you, so you don't have to miraculously find one while in jail). Just ... shut up and let your new LAWYER do all the talking for you. This should be posted in every single forum....Emma is totally right. I never lie to the police, I also never run away. In Canada it is much easier to deal with the police. When I do talk to them I always use the Fear and Loathing quote ( Although not exact words). I'll repeat it... "Yeah, I know. I'm guilty. I understand that. I knew it was a crime, and I did it anyways. Shit, why argue? I'm a fucking criminal, look at me!" [last edit 11/17/2006 8:09 AM by Jef - edited 1 times] We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste. William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 Pravus  Location: Chicago Area Gender: Male Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...  |  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 13 on 11/17/2006 8:35 AM >   Generally put yerself in the cops shoes.. I am sure they'd rather be sittin in thier car playin UT on thier computers in there or whatever the hell they do when they are slacking rather then chasing your ass through some burnt out building.. Figure the more you make then work at getting you the more likely they are going to charge you with something.. Also the more you act like a hardass and mouth off to them the less likely they are to just slap you on the wrist and the more willing they will be to do a lil paperwork.. Pretty much what it boils down to is if you run you damn well make sure you don't get caught.. if you think theres a good chance your going to get caught anyways just get to the cop before he gets to you.. Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. zero-trace  Location: Oshawa/London Gender: Male  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 14 on 11/18/2006 10:25 PM >   When I was at Buffalo Central Station with a few friends last November I ran into huge trouble. My friend and I were spotted by a patrol car while entering the old baggage building. We hid in a corner for at least an hour while a strapped security guard paced below us. After waiting for the security guard to give up we made way towards our car where we had seven police cars waiting for us. My friend went to talk to the police while I slowly and discretely made my way across the street to a bar posing as a tourist from Ontario (mostly true). My friend did not implicate me in the UE and was escorted back to the Ontario boarder by the police, while I waited on a street corner in the rain without a wallet, ID, money, or a phone (all of these things were in his glovebox). I found out while talking to a group of local kids that came up to see why I was in their neighbourhood that skin heads had killed 13 homeless people living in the building in the previous two weeks. My friend that was with me is in a police foundations program and likes to keep his head shaved or close too it. Needless to say I always have a plan for just about any scenario that arrises while UEing. Jef  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male Hey Look at me....  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 15 on 11/19/2006 12:59 PM >   Posted by zero-trace I found out while talking to a group of local kids that came up to see why I was in their neighbourhood that skin heads had killed 13 homeless people living in the building in the previous two weeks. My friend that was with me is in a police foundations program and likes to keep his head shaved or close too it. These Skins killed a bunch of homeless people in what building? BCT? This is way I hate fucking sharp skinheads, they need to be stopped. [last edit 11/19/2006 12:59 PM by Jef - edited 1 times] We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste. William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 Free Baller  Location: New Jerssey Gender: Male I have a friend in Jesus. Seriously, Jesus ate my friend. It was horrible.  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 16 on 11/19/2006 5:53 PM >   Posted by White Trash These Skins killed a bunch of homeless people in what building? BCT? This is way I hate fucking sharp skinheads, they need to be stopped. We seem to get a bad rap not sure why...... Most likely they were Boneheads not skins, Just listen to Iron cross wolfpack. Im really tired of being crucified for this shit. Trying to win hearts and minds, but willing to splatter them if neccesary. DrranXCore  Location: Winnipeg Gender: Male Pigeons are fuckin' scary man  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 17 on 11/19/2006 8:44 PM >   we always decide on a place to run to, it's usually a couple blocks away and involves lots of running through yards and such so it makes it difficult to be followed in a car. but every time we've been caught so far we've just soc. engineered our way out of it Free Baller  Location: New Jerssey Gender: Male I have a friend in Jesus. Seriously, Jesus ate my friend. It was horrible.  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 18 on 11/19/2006 9:01 PM >   Yeah Im in good shape so I run. I perfer to go onto roofs cops dont bother or even probally think about chasin me. [last edit 11/19/2006 9:03 PM by Free Baller - edited 1 times] Trying to win hearts and minds, but willing to splatter them if neccesary. blackhawk  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: Mission Control UER newbie  |  |  Re: I guess this isn't common sense after all... <Reply # 19 on 11/20/2006 12:47 AM >   This is one of the reasons I go alone most times. Don't run from cops if they have seen you; it's another charge and it gets them going. Most times cops don't care if all your doing is looking and you don't take an attitude. Most times remaining silent will buy you more trouble and expense; cops don't like burning nice people. Many times the cop isn't going to make a big deal out of petty charges, not even arrest you for that matter, don't give them a reason to by acting like it is a big deal. Sometimes when they say they will work with you, it's true. If so it can get a reduction of charges and eliminate the hefty attorney fees (min 1 G to start). The truth works best, but you don't have to volunteer the whole fucking story or reason! Never steal or vandalize; there is no way to explain this to a cop or a judge, and it will get you hammered. If there's wildlife, etc on the property, this is a good subject to take pics of; sometimes it's ok if the cop knows what your doing, but don't insult their intelligence, or place them in the position where they have to arrest you. Don't take an adversarial posture with a cop; they will by training always seek to acquire control. Compliance means to the cop that you aren't going to harm them, do something stupid, and are likely to listen to what they say. This will relax them and make it more likely you go home sooner and cheaper. ALWAYS STAY CALM and don't resist (this is how YOU remain in control), even if the cop(s) are screaming; they'll cool down, eventually. If they ask you to rat out your friends, I would politely decline, or say you never saw them before. There are some people I met 10 years ago, but seems like just today. A bad memory can be good at times, don't over do it though. These are general suggestions and work well in most situations, but each situation is unique and the ability perceive what is happening and act accordingly is crucial. Think before you do things, and most times this shit can be avoided. Never bring weapons, drugs, or B&E tools. Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in. UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > I guess this isn't common sense after all... (Viewed 1009 times) 1 2   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 156 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 739254174 pages have been generated.