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 Avatar-X
       
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
 |  |  | Regarding the Resignations
< on 2/15/2006 1:55 PM >
|  | | | I am posting this in a new thread because the other one is a mess.
I will not attempt to explain exactly what happened behind-the-scenes (regarding the controversial image) to cause the 4 moderators to leave. Any explanation of this specific incident, no matter how unbiased I try to make it, would get me accused of leaving out the details or rewriting the story to suit my interests. So I'm not going to bother.
I think I can sum up the reasons that Jester, Kowalski, MacGyver, and Freak left as such:
Each of these people was personally invited by myself to join the moderating team on UER. I invited them because I respected them, their opinions, their values. I saw them as a positive influence on the community. I wanted to reward them with the ability to help this community, by contributing their time as a moderator.
Each of them was a fine moderator. Oh sure, some of them would get into fights, but we can't expect everyone to always have the same opinions. Whenever a forum issue was raised, all of the moderators and I would discuss the issue in private, before reaching a conclusion, a course of action.
In the end, however, we reached a breaking point when I refused to take an action I did not agree with. These four moderators expected me to defer to their decision, arguing that because there was more of them, that their decision had to be to correct one. I spent a lot of personal time reaffirming my stance, and I held my ground. I refused to take the action that these four moderators wanted me to take.
I listened to and respected their opinions, I tried my best to explain my point of view. I did not simply make this decision "without thinking". But in the end, I am the one who writes the cheques, and puts hundreds of hours of his time (for free) into maintaining and upgrading this website.
How would you like it if a group of people you trust came along and told you what to do with your website? I doubt you'd like it much.
So, essentially, that's what it boils down to. These four moderators wanted to be able to tell me what to do with UER. I just can't agree with that. So they decided to leave.
I'm sure that each of these four moderators will now post, and tell me how wrong I am, and that I am an asshole, and so on. So be it.
There are several openings for new moderators, but hold off on your applications until the dust settles a little and the other mods & I decide what the best course of action is.
Thanks for your continued support, and an especially big thank-you goes to those who have donated extra during these times.
Your site administrator,
Avatar-X
[last edit 2/15/2006 1:56 PM by Avatar-X - edited 1 times]
huskies - such fluff. |
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Explorer Zero
  
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 1 on 2/15/2006 3:15 PM >
| | | | thanks for explaining this for us members not privy to the inner circle stuff
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Axle
 
Location: Milton, ON
Gender: Male
Sieg oder Tod
| | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 2 on 2/15/2006 3:20 PM >
| | | | Thanks Av.
Celer at Audax
Para la Victoria Siempre Alemanes! |
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nobody
Location: VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male
5:55 is a state of mind
| | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 3 on 2/15/2006 3:23 PM >
| | | | It seems that this site is very well looked after, the quality of the moderators is high, and that is evident. I am sorry you guys had a parting of the ways, and wish you all good luck. N.
Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| |  |  | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 4 on 2/15/2006 3:27 PM >
| | | | Explaining, offering another point-of-view... whichever.
But thanks, Av, for making the assumption that the resigning moderators are going to flock to this thread to call you an asshole - yet again reinforcing my decision for resigning as a moderator. Thank you for also telling me that I had only "jumped on the bandwagon". Thank you for your cool and level-headed PM in reponse to my resignation.
To be honest, my decision to give it up happened when I was called a "fucking idiot".
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 5 on 2/15/2006 3:31 PM >
| | | | ? Oooh this thickens the plot a little bit.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 6 on 2/15/2006 3:35 PM >
| | | | I didn't actually call you a "fucking idiot". It's unfortunate you didn't read what I had written in that post more carefully. You also might recall that I immediatly apologized for having to use such language. I'm not even going to try to explain it because it doesn't really matter anymore.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 7 on 2/15/2006 3:50 PM >
| | | | Actually, Av, what you said was (regarding an explanation I was trying to make) that if I expected you to believe what I was saying that I was "a fucking idiot". I was expecting you to believe me - you knew that - therefore...
Too bad you don't pay closer attention to what you post yourself.
As for the apology... too little too late. But you're right. It doesn't matter anymore. Now that I'm not a mod my opinion means even less to you, which would put it into the negatives.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 8 on 2/15/2006 3:55 PM >
| | | | No, not true. Here is a transcript of the problem.
Crossfire changed his avatar picture to an image of a wolf with a green streak of colour being hung dead, next to a man brandishing what appeared to be a pitchfork.
I told him I was disappointed that he had resorted to using such personally insulting images.
He posted:
"That is nowhere near the reason why I did it in the first place. Stop making assumptions about me or my actions, please, Av!"
In reply, I said:
"Do you honestly expect to be able to argue that you posted an image of a wolf being killed, with a coloured streak added to it, without the obvious immediate affect of (potentially) angering me?
If you honestly believe that, and I apologize as I stoop to name calling, then you are a fucking idiot."
I was trying to point out that him saying "i didn't post the wolf pics to piss you off!" was making him look like an idiot.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 9 on 2/15/2006 3:58 PM >
| | | | The reason I agreed to moderate in the first place, was because I saw this place as a way to unite explorers. For awhile it seemed like it would. But over time it became clearer and clearer that the site was not being built on equality. With administration decisions all boiling down to being made by one person that very simply behaved like a child, I couldn't continue being a part of it.
| I listened to and respected their opinions, I tried my best to explain my point of view. I did not simply make this decision "without thinking". But in the end, I am the one who writes the cheques, and puts hundreds of hours of his time (for free) into maintaining and upgrading this website. |
The only opinion you had any interest in was if it was identical to your own. And please discount the hundreds of hours (for free) each mod put in to keep this place running, even when you were whining on numerous occasions that you should take it offline.
How would you like it if a group of people you trust came along and told you what to do with your website? I doubt you'd like it much. |
How would you feel if you were accused (without a shred of evidence) of leaking information, by a person you thought respected you ? Well maybe with your weak character it wouldn't matter to you, but to someone who is honest, it does.
So, essentially, that's what it boils down to. These four moderators wanted to be able to tell me what to do with UER. I just can't agree with that. So they decided to leave. |
Actually, in a vote 80% agreed on what should have been done. That's not 4 mods. And despite your acting as if we wanted to control UER, all the mods wanted was a rational decision making process that was as fair as possible, which would have been by voting amongst the admins/mods and following the majority as the best course of action.
You feel that your opinion is more rational than that of a council of people, and that's why we left, after being threatened by you on numerous occasions that you would get rid of any mod that even mentioned the subjects. When you locked a simple opinion poll, you showed how much you valued anyone's opinion but your own. When you locked every discussion we had in the admin board, you showed how much you valued our opinions. Actions showed your true colors, words certainly did not.
We wanted what was best for the community. You wanted what was best for Av.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Chuck
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 10 on 2/15/2006 3:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Thanks for your continued support, and an especially big thank-you goes to those who have donated extra during these times.
|
You didn't just say... yea you did!
Come on Av get off the high horse!
Geez, everything will work out but how does more money, never mind.
Av, I seriously think you started UER off with the right intentions but something happened along the way.
I don't want to start a flame war, you and me have been through all that crap before.
It's just another situation where you really have to open your eyes and see what is going on at UER. Don't look at it from Av's eyes, look at it from the average Tom, Dick, or Chucks.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do with UER. Just try to think of everyone here, and not just yourself.
Chuck
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands. - Clint Eastwood |
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maZe
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| |  | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 11 on 2/15/2006 4:03 PM >
| | | | I promise I'll shut up after this.
I see those resignations as a divorce. You guys were together for a while, it worked well, great. Now it's not working anymore and you're going your separate ways.
I wish you all well, Av and UER and all the mods.
I know a divorce is painful (I've got my own certificate to prove it) but bottom line is : we don't need to know who did what to who, when and how. You're leaving that's sad but it's life. Can we move on now and get back to exploration? Giving all the details and the tiny weeny things and insults only makes it more painful not only for the people involved but also for the bystanders who, really, don't need to know all these.
I'm sure you said what you wanted to say in private. No need to spread it over again and again in public...
[last edit 2/15/2006 4:05 PM by maZe - edited 1 times]
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 12 on 2/15/2006 4:04 PM >
| | | | You're right, maze. I'm not continuing on with this anymore.
I only have one thing to say in regards to this divorce...
I want the dog.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 13 on 2/15/2006 4:05 PM >
| | | | Thanks for your opinion, Jester. You could have made that post without hurling insults.
But you are right on the money on one key point: Yes, I believe that what I want to do with UER is more important than what a group of you wants to do with UER.
I don't ever want anyone else to be able to force me to do something with UER that I don't personally believe in.
Go read up on the Steve Jobs & Apple fiasco of the late 80's and early 90's. Jobs gave his board of directors too much power, and they kicked him out of his own company. I think that's the wrongest thing in the world.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 14 on 2/15/2006 4:05 PM >
| | | | Wrongest?
Disgruntled. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 15 on 2/15/2006 4:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Thanks for your opinion, Jester. You could have made that post without hurling insults.
|
You have no problem insulting me to my very core, attacking the honesty and integrity my entire life is based on, but for me to bring up how you acted is an insult ? I'm so sorry, but you deserve a hell of a lot worse than what you've heard from me so far.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 16 on 2/15/2006 4:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
But you are right on the money on one key point: Yes, I believe that what I want to do with UER is more important than what a group of you wants to do with UER.
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Does this mean you will finally get around to deleting the locations that have been in queue since September of 2005?
Abandoned |
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nostra-YOUPPI!
Umpire
Location: Shahre:'on Kaybec
Bonsoir et cest partie
| | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 17 on 2/15/2006 4:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Thanks for your opinion, Jester. You could have made that post without hurling insults.
But you are right on the money on one key point: Yes, I believe that what I want to do with UER is more important than what a group of you wants to do with UER.
I don't ever want anyone else to be able to force me to do something with UER that I don't personally believe in.
Go read up on the Steve Jobs & Apple fiasco of the late 80's and early 90's. Jobs gave his board of directors too much power, and they kicked him out of his own company. I think that's the wrongest thing in the world.
-av
|
av little difference, Apple is a corporation with shareholders, jobs may have been the majority shareholder but his stake in the company was less than 50% which means he could be overthrown. You on the other hand have never and will never sell shares in anything listed as UER inc. so there is no chance of you being overthrown, bringing steve jobs into the argument is like talking about cheese wiz in a peanut butter debate
Montreal Expos 1969-2004 Forever Proud Lets Keep The Dream Alive |
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el nerdo
 
Chief UER Lackey
Gender: Male
What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?
| | | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 18 on 2/15/2006 4:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
But you are right on the money on one key point: Yes, I believe that what I want to do with UER is more important than what a group of you wants to do with UER.
I don't ever want anyone else to be able to force me to do something with UER that I don't personally believe in.
|
And this is what it all boils down to. Av drew the line in the sand. The 5 mods don't agree with it, and resigned.
END OF STORY.
This is just turning into a bitter catfight now.
You (the moderators) quit. Av said that he's the boss, and if he doesn't want to listen to your opinions because he disagrees with them, then either accept that or quit.
And quit you did.
Now instead of taking the high road and just leaving, all I see is a bunch of people stirring up shit (and coming from a shit disturber, I know it when I see it.).
Give it a rest.
I'm sad to see Crossfire leave; he was my favorite moderator. And an all-around nice guy. But such is life.
LIFE WILL GO ON. LET IT GO. LEAVE IN PEACE. Stiff upper lip and all that.
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Servo
| | Re: Regarding the Resignations
<Reply # 19 on 2/15/2006 4:38 PM >
| | | | I like pie.
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