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Server Time:
2024-05-12 02:53:29
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 seicer
     
Location: New York
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 40 on 10/17/2005 1:51 AM >
|  | | | Posted by Horus
I see what you're saying Seicer, that this homeless guy didn't live there and was just burning something while intoxicated, but do you really think it was right to kick his ass like that? He got caught anyway, he was obviously going to get caught, all you had to do was get in your car and drive away. I'm not saying you should've let him take your stuff, just give him punch or two and get out of there. Really though, this was an isolated incident. KublaKhan, Seicer isn't saying all homeless are maniacs trying to steal stuff. What he's saying is that every now and then you run into something nasty, and then it might take more than respect alone to get out. But respect/walking away slowly should surely be your first instinct.
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It was nothing more than a few quick blows in the stomach. Nothing permanent and something he would have gotten over in a matter of minutes. Why does people take "subdued" as "beat the living shit out of the person 'till hes black 'n blue"?
And there was no way of walking out of that situation. We were in a dead-end.
Abandoned |
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Jen X
 
Location: Rochester, New York
Gender: Female
Survivors will be violated.
| |  | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 41 on 10/17/2005 4:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
It was nothing more than a few quick blows in the stomach. Nothing permanent and something he would have gotten over in a matter of minutes. Why does people take "subdued" as "beat the living shit out of the person 'till hes black 'n blue"?
And there was no way of walking out of that situation. We were in a dead-end.
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You did what you had to do to protect yourself and your friends. All bullshit aside, being cornered in a dead end is scary. As I've said before leaving is best, but when your back is against a wall (literally or figuratively) you have a responsibility to yourself and your crew to get out, even if it means throwing a punch.
Malevolant entites never ask for photo ID.
"I'd so UE that"- FoxTwoFoxTwo |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 42 on 10/17/2005 5:05 AM >
| | | | Well my 2 cents, If I can get out of being mugged by some thug I would rather beat the living crap out of them then hand over my belongings.. so bum or no he is just a petty criminal, so I don't exactly know why everyone is so concerned that they will hurt the criminals feelings.. delt a bad hand or not when he mugs someone he has no feelings worth taking note of..
However there would be times where you best off to hand it over (if the guy has a gun) but an unarmed man tryin to jack my things screw it take him down..
By that I am in no way sayin you should go beatin bums, if ya run across them hell give'em a smoke (a pack of smokes and a lighter can take you pretty far)
And as far as the home argument, home is where you lie your head..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 43 on 10/17/2005 9:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
It was nothing more than a few quick blows in the stomach. Nothing permanent and something he would have gotten over in a matter of minutes. Why does people take "subdued" as "beat the living shit out of the person 'till hes black 'n blue"?
And there was no way of walking out of that situation. We were in a dead-end.
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Sorry. I just misunderstood what you said.
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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TDK1000
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 44 on 11/7/2005 3:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by Tanuki
Your description is just too far removed from any reality that I've encountered for me to believe it came from actual experience and not a preconceived prejudice. So I find it hard to accept that my notions are the textbook theory.
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You sound like you're to removed from reality.
The fact is the homeless range from your average guy who lost his job to deranged druggies and violent psychotics. Most are the later two. If you wouldn't defend yourself and your life then frankly you aren't worth the air you breathe.
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TDK1000
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 45 on 11/7/2005 3:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
Well my 2 cents, If I can get out of being mugged by some thug I would rather beat the living crap out of them then hand over my belongings.. so bum or no he is just a petty criminal,
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Exactly. I'm not sure when leaning so far to the left that it became a right and a privilege to hand over your property and your life to some criminal.
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vwtype3guy
 
Location: Liverpool, NY
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 46 on 11/7/2005 8:08 PM >
| | | | Seicer-
Here's how I see it. The very fact that he told you to "hand over your camera before anybody gets hurt" is a blatant threat your life and well-being, which warrants self-defense. Who knows what he could have been packing...not to mention that he would not stop coming after you...
KublaKhan-
Put yourself in Seicer’s scenario; what would you have changed? Do not take this as a challenge. I am simply curious as to what you would have done.
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metalwitch40
Location: mass.
Gender: Female
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 47 on 11/7/2005 8:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by MatC
Check out this thread and this story for a discussion of this issue, and some issues raised by explorers when dealing with the homeless.
-- Mat
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That story is awesome!!
The more things change, the more they stay the same |
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KublaKhan
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 48 on 11/8/2005 3:11 AM >
|  | | | Posted by merulla
Seicer-
Here's how I see it. The very fact that he told you to "hand over your camera before anybody gets hurt" is a blatant threat your life and well-being, which warrants self-defense. Who knows what he could have been packing...not to mention that he would not stop coming after you...
KublaKhan-
Put yourself in Seicer’s scenario; what would you have changed? Do not take this as a challenge. I am simply curious as to what you would have done.
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I would have yanked my piece out from under my shirt and put a hot-one between his eyes.
[EDIT: I am, of course, kidding. I would have asked him how badly he wanted the camera/gear, and then, if he was very determined to have it, I would have asked him to try and take it from me. Then I would have responded in an appropriate fashion. If that warranted physical action, so be it. But ultimately, I would have offered him a choice: leave quietly, or feel the burn].
[last edit 11/8/2005 3:16 AM by KublaKhan - edited 1 times]
"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
PICS |
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FoxTwoFoxTwo
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
I'm an explorer who photographs...
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 49 on 11/8/2005 3:11 AM >
| | | | Posted by KublaKhan
I would have yanked my piece out from under my shirt and put a hot-one between his eyes.
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And so the ugly truth comes forth.
Bringing exploration to Clarksville.
Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..." |
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schematics
Location: secret underground lair, Edmonton, AB
Gender: Male
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 50 on 11/9/2005 4:52 AM >
|  | | | I'm kinda new to this hobby, and in my five or so missions, I haven't yet come across any squatters. however, swimr and I were scoping out an abandoned nunnery, and he went on a short perimeter search, shimmed a lock and found a woman sleeping on a mattress, and subsequently they both scared the sht out of each other. swimr apologized and closed the door. we're debating what the next plan of action should be. we'll prolly just ask politely, and possibly with cigarettes, if we can tour the place, or alternatively, there's a number of doors to try, and we might be able to sneak around, cigarettes and apologies at the ready. any thoughts?
if wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak |
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 51 on 11/10/2005 12:04 AM >
| | | | Posted by schematics
I'm kinda new to this hobby, and in my five or so missions, I haven't yet come across any squatters. however, swimr and I were scoping out an abandoned nunnery, and he went on a short perimeter search, shimmed a lock and found a woman sleeping on a mattress, and subsequently they both scared the sht out of each other. swimr apologized and closed the door. we're debating what the next plan of action should be. we'll prolly just ask politely, and possibly with cigarettes, if we can tour the place, or alternatively, there's a number of doors to try, and we might be able to sneak around, cigarettes and apologies at the ready. any thoughts?
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Just ask permission and give her some smokes. It's probably much safer than sneaking around her "territory" without acknowledging yourself. If that doesn't work, you may as well sneak around (assuming it's a big place).
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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Tanuki
Location: Victoria, BC
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 52 on 11/16/2005 2:09 AM >
| | | | Some people need to work on their reading comprehension.
This thread is about whether or not you should give respect to homeless people when you invade their spaces. It isn't a thread about what you should do if you get mugged. So some drunk guy tried to take seicer's camera. That's unfortunate, but has nothing to do with the question that this thread is about.
Also, no one on this thread ever said anything about not protecting yourself or your property. And I never made any judgement about how seicer dealt with the situation he encountered. I wasn't there, I have no way of knowing if he overreacted or not.
Posted by TDK1000
If you wouldn't defend yourself and your life then frankly you aren't worth the air you breathe.
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You seem to be directing this at me, which I find strange given that I never said anything that would imply I wouldn't defend myself. It also seems to be a very strange and idiotic philosophy. Do you make a habit of walking around and beating up people who don't defend themselves? Does it make you feel big and manly?
Posted by TDK1000
...leaning so far to the left...
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Respecting other people isn't a 'leftist' ideology, and it isn't a 'hippy' thing. You can choose whatever political ideology you want, you still need to respect other people. Contrary to what some people on this thread seem to think, just because someone is homeless doesn't mean that they are a dangerous psychotic. However, if someone is capable of not respecting other people and completely disregarding the fact that they are a fellow human, just because they are homeless, that is a pretty good indication of a dangerous psychotic.
I'm really quite surprised that there seems to be so much resistance to the notion that you should be respectful to people when you invade their home, even if they don't legally own the place where they are sleeping.
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 53 on 11/16/2005 2:26 AM >
| | | | I ran into the guy who lives in our local abandoned power plant. Seemed pretty nice. I said "you mind if we walk around down there?" (he was exiting to go fishing). He said "Sure, but watch out for the holes in the floor". He had a crucifix-kinda thing in the main room made out of sticks.
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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Glass
Location: Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 54 on 11/18/2005 6:06 PM >
| | | | I've had half a dozen encounters with homeless people in my UE experience... I dont normally have any problem with them: I just keep walking or say Hi. They stare at me but it's just a short meet; nothing drawn out or authorizing.
In response to Merulla's post... I carry around VERY expensive equipment with me because my UE is fine art photography based. I don't hand that over for anything. That's what the Mag Light is for: any threats on me, my comrades, or my equipment and I have the means and will to protect.
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 55 on 11/18/2005 6:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by mynameisglass
I've had half a dozen encounters with homeless people in my UE experience... I dont normally have any problem with them: I just keep walking or say Hi. They stare at me but it's just a short meet; nothing drawn out or authorizing.
In response to Merulla's post... I carry around VERY expensive equipment with me because my UE is fine art photography based. I don't hand that over for anything. That's what the Mag Light is for: any threats on me, my comrades, or my equipment and I have the means and will to protect.
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Hell yeah  We need more people like you!
Abandoned |
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aplz
Location: Neo-Berlin (Kitchener)
Gender: Male
When The Detail Lost Its Freedom
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 56 on 11/26/2005 5:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by coffinnail
i usually give them a cigarette and ask them about abandonments.
i recently found a new way in to my personal favorite that way.
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Same. Not every homeless person is a crazy person who will murder you for your coat. Most of the time they can tell you about cool places in the building, or other places they've squatted which are abandoned.
They're just people, they're not rejects of society which need to be ignored at all costs. A simple hello and/or conversation with somebody can make there day, and usually I can relate to theem.
And if it happened, and they attacked you, most people can easily take a homeless person down. They're fatigued, malnourished, tired, dehydrated and in fear due to having to survive on their own. But how many of us can truly they they got the shit beat out of them by a homeless person? Definetly not me.
[last edit 11/26/2005 5:03 PM by aplz - edited 1 times]
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Blue90
Location: TN
Shiny.
| | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 57 on 1/22/2006 9:55 PM >
| | | | recently, we went to an abandoned factory/brewery-place, and encountered these in a warehouse looking area.
squatter, definitely, i'm just not sure if said person is still there...
This is the way the world ends. |
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FoxTwoFoxTwo
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
I'm an explorer who photographs...
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 58 on 1/22/2006 10:33 PM >
| | | | Hey blue, remember when we first went in. Well, when I went in after rocky, I heard a noise in the far right... There was this small office like thing and I think the guy may have been there. Tres creepy. Also, he could have been hiding behind the car...
Bringing exploration to Clarksville.
Journal: http://www.uer.ca/...id=4&catid=2000173 | RUAUER!?!?!?111ONE??QUESTIONMARK | FoxTwoFoxTwo - "I just ordered a large. I have a relatively huge head so yeah..." |
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j0lt
Location: Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Encountering Homeless and their spaces
<Reply # 59 on 1/24/2006 12:04 PM >
| | | | My experience as a security guard has shown squatters/homeless to be often quite destructive to abandonments. Even a few times exploring, we found a location that was fine when we scouted, but between that time and when we went in for the mission, the place was trashed.
http://www.wraiths.org/180seconds.htm
http://www.wraiths.org/alarmed3.htm
Of course, if I ever ran across squatters/homeless people in a UE site, I'd be respectful, give them their space, if they wanted to talk, fine, but mostly I'd probably just carry on.
j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly! |
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