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1 2 3 4   UER Forum > Archived UE Main > One messed up exploration (Viewed 6484 times) PlasticDel  Location: Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland Gender: Male If anything moves... Kick it till it stops.  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 20 on 4/30/2005 1:16 AM >   Posted by loprox Never ever ever ever go alone. I have learnt this from experience. Plus I'm way too frightened by weird noises. True story: Some weird guy appeared from nowhere, freaked the shit out of me. He sat down and passed out right in front of me. I just got the heck out of there. Maybe I should have stayed to see if he was ok? Posted by ComatoseBlond I would've shit myself... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! Man did that make me laugh!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope none of you guys ever get hurt. It's a dangerous activity. Let's face it, it wouldn't be any fun if it was a cake-walk. I was pondering buying a mag-lite today (3D-cell I think) reckoning that I could scelp someone with it if I had to. It was purple. I didn't buy it. lopix  Location: Ontario Gender: Male I survive on the poison you're feeding me  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 21 on 7/5/2005 6:14 PM >   That is why I like my monopod... kinda like a collapsable baton in a way. That and a Maglite and I feel pretty safe I'm not angry - just focused :: No human opinion is higher than the truth http://www.lopix.com :: http://www.dkphotogroup.com SilentSearch  Location: Cowtown Gender: Male My rebellion against the santa cursor! HoHoHo  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 22 on 7/5/2005 6:27 PM >   A large flashlight is a great idea. What about pepper spray? It's non-lethal. I think some jurisdictions have rules about it and some don't. Any ideas there? I have thought about carrying some for just that sort of encounter. Official UE Safety officer and rescue specialist. Ruck  Location: Texas Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 23 on 7/5/2005 6:56 PM >   I go armed as well. 9mm here. Pepper spray is a good idea, as is a Maglite, but I just feel more comfortable with my pistol. It's a good idea to check into getting a concealed handgun carry license if your state allows, and also to check up any additional charges that might acrue if you're caught with a weapon while UEing. If I recall correctly, the charges go from either a Class B or Class C (depending on location) misdemeanor to a Class A if you're carrying a "deadly" weapon on you while trespassing. I'm not sure how that pertains to CHL holders, however. One thing about pepper spray. A lot of times we're in tight spaces with poor ventilation while UEing. It might not be the best idea to whip out the pepper spray and go to town with it, since it's just as likely to affect you as it is your assailant under those conditions. A good idea is to buy two bottles/cans/canisters of OC spray and practice with one and keep the other to carry, so you have an idea of how it performs. If you think about, neither a pistol nor pepper spray take up too much space or weigh too much, so there's no reason, legalities excluded, that they shouldn't comprise part of the typical loadout for an explorer. Not that I'm condoning everyone running around armed to the teeth, but I'm not about to set aside my personal safety while UEing and I don't expect anyone else to do so either. I find it odd, though, that considering the circumstances of many of our explorations, we (the UE community in general) haven't run into more situations where the need for some sort of weapon has arose. I carry a .45 when I'm exploring by myself, but if I'm with others, I don't so as to keep them out of trouble. I'd rather take that chance. I've often thought about carrying while others are around. I ultimately decided that I would carry and just not say anything about it. If something happens and we get caught, I'd just tell the officer that they knew nothing about it. I doubt seriously the police would bother anyone else if I, the person with the weapon, and thus the culprit, said no one else knew anything about it. Thankfully, though, I haven't explored with anyone who was bothered by it, so the impact of its presence was minimal, at best. [last edit 7/5/2005 7:27 PM by Ruck - edited 3 times] "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens maply   |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 24 on 7/5/2005 7:49 PM >   man i love canada.... whether or not to bring a handgun has never been an issue. i think it has more to do with the fact that we're never around anything that couldnt be handled with dog mace, a homemade tazer, or a good "FUCK OFF" knife, than the fact that we'd be legally screwed for having a gun. MatC  Nobler Donor Location: ENY Gender: Male Accepted everywhere  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 25 on 7/5/2005 10:42 PM >   Yeah, carrying a weapon is just asking for trouble if you're caught. It's also going to make you more likely to stand your ground and think, "I can take this guy." DjMalign made the right decision -- he got his ass out while the getting was good. If he had stuck around and started brandishing a weapon, he could have been in a world of trouble. Even if you think you're safe with a weapon -- from a tazer to a gold-plated .50 caliber Desert Eagle -- you may not be. After all, you don't know the building as well as someone who's been there before (and possibly been living there). Who's to say that some crack addict isn't going to jump out of a doorway behind you (that you didn't even know was there), club you, and use your weapon against you? So, yeah, at maximum carry a big flashlight to thump someone or something (like an attack woodchuck -- Dj) with, but don't trespass with a .45 tucked in your belt. You might not feel as safe, but if you're UE'ing somewhere that you really feel you need to be armed, maybe you shouldn't be UE'ing there. -- Mat "We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" Scaggs  Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 26 on 7/6/2005 12:06 AM >   Ahh yes, you all live in NY and other parts where they are definitely not gun-friendly. I remember those days growing up in Upstate NY. But down here in the Dirty South, we don't fuck around. Gun racks and pickup trucks my friend! Shoot first, ask questions later. Of course, we don't have gun registration either SilentSearch  Location: Cowtown Gender: Male My rebellion against the santa cursor! HoHoHo  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 27 on 7/6/2005 3:46 AM >   Good point about the pepper spray in confined spaces. That thought hadn't occurred to me. Thanks ZeroHorizon! Figure a strait stream might be the option there. I had considered a stun gun but that would require getting way inside their (and mine) personal space and I don't think I want to get that close to some squatter living in an abandoned space. True, a weapon might make one feel more invincible, but in our past-time, discretion is the better point and the less contact/exposer to potential attackers is the best policy, armed or unarmed. (escape and evade) A good reason not to explore certain places alone and do a thorough recon. Official UE Safety officer and rescue specialist. Ruck  Location: Texas Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 28 on 7/6/2005 3:57 AM >   It's also going to make you more likely to stand your ground and think, "I can take this guy." I disagree. Look at the number of people with concealed carry licenses. Just having a gun doesn't turn someone into some kind of Wild West cowboy. If anything, most people who carry guns legally are all the more likely to avoid a confrontation. A gun, and anyone who legitimately carries one, knows that pulling your weapon is the very last resort. Even if you think you're safe with a weapon -- from a tazer to a gold-plated .50 caliber Desert Eagle -- you may not be. After all, you don't know the building as well as someone who's been there before (and possibly been living there). Who's to say that some crack addict isn't going to jump out of a doorway behind you (that you didn't even know was there), club you, and use your weapon against you? If you don't mind me nitpicking, I think if someone has clubbed you from behind then having your own weapon used on you is the least of your worries. So, yeah, at maximum carry a big flashlight to thump someone or something (like an attack woodchuck -- Dj) with, but don't trespass with a .45 tucked in your belt. You might not feel as safe, but if you're UE'ing somewhere that you really feel you need to be armed, maybe you shouldn't be UE'ing there. You run into all sorts of people while UEing. Around here it's mostly drunk rednecks looking for trouble. Ultimately your best weapon is your mind, but a gun is one of those things that if you need it, then you want to have it, because things have gone south very quickly. The old adage of having and not needing than needing and not having rings true here. Again, check the laws in your area regarding trespassing with a deadly weapon. If possible, check into getting your own CHL. "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens knickers  Location: Scotland/London. Gender: Female  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 29 on 7/6/2005 12:24 PM >   Posted by maply man i love canada.... whether or not to bring a handgun has never been an issue. i think it has more to do with the fact that we're never around anything that couldnt be handled with dog mace, a homemade tazer, or a good "FUCK OFF" knife, than the fact that we'd be legally screwed for having a gun. Scotland/UK too, taking a gun or not is never an issue. i dont want to stir up anything here too much but i feel sorry for you all who do, and i hope we never get to the level of gun tolerance that there is in the states. B' fheàrr Gàidhlig briste na Beurla cliste "O Teannaibh Dlùth 's Togaibh Fonn" Ruck  Location: Texas Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 30 on 7/6/2005 2:03 PM >   man i love canada.... whether or not to bring a handgun has never been an issue. i think it has more to do with the fact that we're never around anything that couldnt be handled with dog mace, a homemade tazer, or a good "FUCK OFF" knife, than the fact that we'd be legally screwed for having a gun. You really think you'll never be in a situation that can't be handled by the items you mentioned? By no means is a gun the be-all, end-all, in problems, but I can think of many, many scenarios in which mace, a homemade tazer (WTF? If you insist on using one, buy a real one), or a knife would be inadequate to deal with the situation. When you add in possible drug use, mental instability, superior numbers, and your assailants having weapons of their own, the items you mentioned don't seem to be the best tools at hand to tackle the job. Do you really want to get close enough to use a knife on someone who A. has a knife of their own, B. is bigger than you and C. is obviously either on drugs or mentally unstable or both? Scotland/UK too, taking a gun or not is never an issue. i dont want to stir up anything here too much but i feel sorry for you all who do, and i hope we never get to the level of gun tolerance that there is in the states. Don't feel sorry for us. Guns are not a problem. A lax justic system and a refusal to accept responsibility are the problem. As far as being less in need of a gun in Scotland/UK, British crime has risen even after gun control, and while gun crime itself dropped (although it too has risen recently) overall the level of violent crime has increased. Is that a fair trade-off? I don't think so. I would hate to have one of the best options for personal security (a gun)taken away from me, especially when crime is, in fact, not decreasing as a result of taking guns away. By the way, I have the statistics if you'd like to see them, just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass. "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens Disgrace  Location: Saint John, New Brunswick  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 31 on 7/6/2005 10:02 PM >   I don't bring weapons with me when I'm UEing(I'm in Canada and likewise feel that carrying a gun seems way over the top), though if I get the feeling something might be up, I'm not adverse to grabbing the nearest blunt object to carry around with me. There are generally a lot of handy objects that could be used as a potential deterrent hanging around in abandoned buildings. I also usually have a knife with me, but that's more for utility than self defense. I'm a follower of the 'get what you give' philosophy. You pull a knife on some guys that were just going to kick your ass a little, and you might just find yourself gutted just for pulling the knife. Or shot. I'd rather a little blunt trauma than to potentially get killed. The vast majority of people aren't going to literally kill you just for being around a squat. At least.. not in Canada. Yeah, you may get your ass kicked pretty badly, but it's unlikely they're going to risk a murder charge when they could just beat you up and get on with their lives. However, the moment you pull a knife, or a gun, the whole situation changes. - TD 'Dukes  Noble Donor Gender: Male At least someone llikes me  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 32 on 7/6/2005 10:33 PM >   Posted by MatC Yeah, carrying a weapon is just asking for trouble if you're caught. It's also going to make you more likely to stand your ground and think, "I can take this guy." DjMalign made the right decision -- he got his ass out while the getting was good. If he had stuck around and started brandishing a weapon, he could have been in a world of trouble. So, yeah, at maximum carry a big flashlight to thump someone -- Mat Sorry Mat; didn't know you felt that way; why do you think I had no maglight with me the first time we met up? BTW, a 4d mag doesn't fit very well into the back pocket of levis! I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. Ruck  Location: Texas Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 33 on 7/6/2005 11:18 PM >   I don't bring weapons with me when I'm UEing(I'm in Canada and likewise feel that carrying a gun seems way over the top), though if I get the feeling something might be up, I'm not adverse to grabbing the nearest blunt object to carry around with me. There are generally a lot of handy objects that could be used as a potential deterrent hanging around in abandoned buildings. I also usually have a knife with me, but that's more for utility than self defense. I'm a follower of the 'get what you give' philosophy. You pull a knife on some guys that were just going to kick your ass a little, and you might just find yourself gutted just for pulling the knife. Or shot. I'd rather a little blunt trauma than to potentially get killed. The vast majority of people aren't going to literally kill you just for being around a squat. At least.. not in Canada. Yeah, you may get your ass kicked pretty badly, but it's unlikely they're going to risk a murder charge when they could just beat you up and get on with their lives. However, the moment you pull a knife, or a gun, the whole situation changes. So basically, and stop me if I'm wrong here, you're relying on the good will of people who have already shown no reservations in beating the shit out of you not to beat you to death. Call me crazy, but those would be the last people on whose good will I would count. Do you really think just because someone's only going to kick your ass, that's okay? You should just go along and be a victim? I'm only wondering here, not trying to start anything. And that blunt trauma you seem to prefer to possibly getting killed...it's not as harmless as you make it out to be. Any number of things could happen. I personally know a fellow and know of one more here in town. Both were hit one time, and both hit their head when they fell. The result? One died and the other is a vegetable. So a simple ass whooping can turn south real quick. Just my two cents. "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens MatC  Nobler Donor Location: ENY Gender: Male Accepted everywhere  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 34 on 7/6/2005 11:23 PM >   Posted by Zero Horizon I disagree. Look at the number of people with concealed carry licenses. Just having a gun doesn't turn someone into some kind of Wild West cowboy. If anything, most people who carry guns legally are all the more likely to avoid a confrontation. A gun, and anyone who legitimately carries one, knows that pulling your weapon is the very last resort. I'm not saying that having a gun at all makes you into a cowboy. I know plenty of responsible gun owners. I'm just saying that if you're in a tight spot, you'll have one final option in the back of your mind (that option being, "I'll whip out my piece and cap the mofo") that could very well cause you not to do the smart thing, which would be to talk your way out or (in DjMalign's case) run away. Also, Disgrace makes a good point that once weapons are involved, it becomes a whole different ballgame. Think about what you would do if you heard someone in your driveway at midnight. You go outside to confront the person and they spin around holding a flashlight. Okay -- you're still wondering what he's doing there, but you're calm. If he spins around and has a knife or a gun, you're automatically going to go into a different level of reasoning, and maybe make the situation quite dangerous. Posted by Zero Horizon I think if someone has clubbed you from behind then having your own weapon used on you is the least of your worries. I understand what you're saying, but my point is that if you hadn't been acting funny and brandishing a weapon, the person might not have conked you, since you didn't appear to be a threat. Also, the point is that even if you think having a weapon puts you in control of the situation, you're not necessarily correct. Posted by Zero Horizon The old adage of having and not needing than needing and not having rings true here. True, but this usually applies more to bringing your umbrella with you to work. Also, as I noted above, it is a double-edged sword. Having a gun may make you act differently in a situation, which will cause the situation to make you feel you need to pull out your gun. Not always, of course -- I'm just raising the possibility. Also, that adage is NOT true if you were to get stopped by police and questioned. One of the first things they'll ask you is if you have any weapons and even if you're carrying legally, they're going to be mighty suspicious about someone roaming abandoned buildings with a loaded weapon. Posted by Zero Horizon I would hate to have one of the best options for personal security (a gun)taken away from me, especially when crime is, in fact, not decreasing as a result of taking guns away. By the way, I have the statistics if you'd like to see them, just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass. I don't want this to become a guns-in-general issue because it's supposed to be a guns-in-UE issue, but there is a study cited by the Brady Campaign which says that, "A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting (4 times), a criminal assault or homicide (7 times), or an attempted or completed suicide (11 times) than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense." Having a gun in your home might make you *feel* safer, but it doesn't seem to follow that it will *make* you safer. Posted by Dukes why do you think I had no maglight with me the first time we met up? You and Bizzy were totally freaking me out when we first met. You must not have seen the AK-47 I was concealing in the right leg of my jeans, but I almost capped you when we heard that sudden loud noise in the factory. Itchy trigger finger is what I have... yup... -- Mat "We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" 'Dukes  Noble Donor Gender: Male At least someone llikes me  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 35 on 7/7/2005 12:00 AM >   Don't make me buss a cap in you ass Honky! I be strappin a gap beatch! I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. Ruck  Location: Texas Gender: Male  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 36 on 7/7/2005 12:01 AM >   I'm not saying that having a gun at all makes you into a cowboy. I know plenty of responsible gun owners. I'm just saying that if you're in a tight spot, you'll have one final option in the back of your mind (that option being, "I'll whip out my piece and cap the mofo") that could very well cause you not to do the smart thing, which would be to talk your way out or (in DjMalign's case) run away. I must once again respectfully disagree. Those responsible gun owners of which you speak will be the first to tell you that drawing the weapon is always the very last resort. That's also the mentality taught at every credible training institution in the U.S., that force is always the last recourse of action. So I still don't think you'd be more apt to "whip out your piece" than to try and talk things out. You should always attempt to talk or run away first, but that's not always an option. What then? Also, Disgrace makes a good point that once weapons are involved, it becomes a whole different ballgame. Think about what you would do if you heard someone in your driveway at midnight. You go outside to confront the person and they spin around holding a flashlight. Okay -- you're still wondering what he's doing there, but you're calm. If he spins around and has a knife or a gun, you're automatically going to go into a different level of reasoning, and maybe make the situation quite dangerous. I see a lot of fear of what the other guy is going to do if you pull a weapon. The only reason you should pull a weapon is in defense of your life. The situation is already dangerous because he has a weapon. He's not just holding it for fun, you know. I merely think if the situation escelates to the level of requiring weapons, you should be able to respond with the same sort of force. I understand what you're saying, but my point is that if you hadn't been acting funny and brandishing a weapon, the person might not have conked you, since you didn't appear to be a threat. Also, the point is that even if you think having a weapon puts you in control of the situation, you're not necessarily correct. I never advocated waving a weapon around. What's with the victim mentality here? It's almost like you're saying it's understandable for the guy to "conk" me if I have a weapon. I wouldn't be holding a weapon if he hadn't already given me reason to fear for my personal safety. And no, having a weapon does not make you necessarily in control of a situation, but it damn well doesn't hurt anything either. True, but this usually applies more to bringing your umbrella with you to work. Also, as I noted above, it is a double-edged sword. Having a gun may make you act differently in a situation, which will cause the situation to make you feel you need to pull out your gun. Not always, of course -- I'm just raising the possibility. A rainy day is a rainy day. I don't wear my seatbelt anticipating an accident, and I don't buy a fire extinguisher because I expect my house to catch on fire. But they're nice things to have around. I don't want this to become a guns-in-general issue because it's supposed to be a guns-in-UE issue, but there is a study cited by the Brady Campaign which says that, "A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting (4 times), a criminal assault or homicide (7 times), or an attempted or completed suicide (11 times) than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense." Having a gun in your home might make you *feel* safer, but it doesn't seem to follow that it will *make* you safer LOL @ the Brady Campaign. It's a biased interest group making biased reports that are so full of holes and fallacies as to be more than ludicrous. (I have the facts and figures to back this up, as well, if you're interested). I would take anything they had to say about anything with a a grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. They've even gone so far as to fabricate information in order to back up their interests. Also, allow me to say I'm glad we're able to have this discussion and keep it civil. In lots of places this would have already degenerated into a pissing contest. Take care and safe UEing. "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens 'Dukes  Noble Donor Gender: Male At least someone llikes me  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 37 on 7/7/2005 12:12 AM >   Posted by Zero Horizon I must once again respectfully disagree. And I agree with you , but I think what the people are saying is that for the most part , exploring with a sidearm will get you into a hell of a lot of trouble (except me Mat). I understand the "why take a beating argument" but really that isn''t the point here. This isn't an "exploring with sidearms" thread, it's about DJ's exploration, and it should stay that way. Like I said, for the most part I agree, but where I live, somone is likely to shoot first and ask questions later. Let's keep this type of stuff on the gun board; here, it is just taking away from DJ's most entertaining post. And Matc; I wasn't kidding. You guys were well defended. I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. Louie   |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 38 on 7/7/2005 9:19 PM >   Zero, saw your post on sigForum, and frankly, I'm on your side. Responsible gun owners who have carry permits know that use is only a last resort. Owners with CCW permits carry guns often, except you don't see them. That's why it's called "concealed." Irresponsible and unlicensed gun owners should not be exploring with their weapon, let alone even posses it. Many people assume that anybody with a gun is a gansta' who totes their gat in the front of their belt, but this is simply not true. Many people have made the argument that "you won't be able to use it in the situation" or "you'll get your gun taken away from you and you'll get shot." The average firearm owner is licensed, trained, and much better at shooting than Joe Smith. Louie smalltowngirl  Gender: Female  |  |  Re: One messed up exploration <Reply # 39 on 7/7/2005 10:19 PM >   Wow, I think I would have been paralyzed from fright.... but that's good you got out al- I mean safely. UER Forum > Archived UE Main > One messed up exploration (Viewed 6484 times)  1 2 3 4   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. 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