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 NoSuchPerson
      
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
 |  | Location Database
< on 11/30/2004 7:48 AM >
|  | | | Okay, there's been a lot of talk about the LDB in various posts (take a look in the Ontario forum for the latest one), so I thought I'd poll the members on here about the LDB.
In a nutshell, there's been an increasing frequency of sites being locked down, secured, heavily policed, or otherwise made a "red light" mission - a very large number of which have happened not too long after it got posted to the LDB.
A few examples:
Armstrong Cheese Factory. Was on the LDB for maybe 2 months before somebody vandalized inside, and subsequently was secured.
Windsor Grace Hospital. Was on the LDB for all of a week before there were two fires, vandalisim and now, under lock and key so it would seem.
That's just the first two that I can think of, but I know there are more.
So my question to all of you; What suggestions would you have to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Specifically - do you purposefully NOT post new locations to the LDB for fear of getting them locked down, and if you do post sites to the LDB, have you ever seen increased security, damage or arson to the sites you've posted?
I'm not trying to point fingers at UER or bash the LDB, I'm simply pointing out a number of alarming coincinces and things other people have mentioned.
-Exkalibur
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 1 on 11/30/2004 8:49 AM >
| | | | We went through this all already at UEA.ca a few months ago. We had ravers using our ldb for organizing illegal events so they could sell drugs.
Went back and forth withe police I have drug dealers trying to find my house, all sorts of bullshit.
The new UEA site works much differently now. Although I have to admit, I do not think it has lost anything. (keeping in mind it is not done yet)
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Uncle Goose
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Gender: Male
The Goose knows best.
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 2 on 11/30/2004 9:13 AM >
| | | | I don't think that the LDB has anything to do with it. None of the locations in my neighbourhood are in any database but still they are severly vandalized.
We just have to accept the fact that there are other people aware there are abandoned places around.
to give you an example: the site of Van Alsberge & Van Oost (old textilefactory) had a magnificent steamengine, more or less intact. It stood there for more than 50years. With a little restoration it might still have worked.
yesterday I went for another visit (like I did 30 times before) and with horror I saw that they looted the engine. Nowadays it's beyond restauration and it will probably be considered as a total loss. Some assholes ripped 50years of history apart for like maybe 40$ scrapp metal. This site isn't widely covered in any LDB but there are to manny people that know it's location just by living in the neighbourhood.
A 1000 days of sorrow can disapear in a split second, it takes only one person to make it happen. |
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DurgiN
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Gender: Male
without the underground I'm like a clown without a circus
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 3 on 11/30/2004 11:41 AM >
| | | | yeah ... I still believe in discreet location additions ... in Australia we have location lists, the odd one has fallen into the wrong hands or even has been released on the internet but we are generally very cautious with our location lists.
The locations that I've posted (and will continue to post on this site) I only list to members and I still keep the location details relatively secret. People can always contact us ([email protected]) if they are coming to town
That's the way I see it anyway ... be vague but still specific enough to give a good overall impression of what vicinity the location is in and how worth while it is for international and interstate explorers to visit
Right on!!!
DurgiN
DurgiN
~ as hardcore as you are ~
http://www.addelayed.com
http://www.caveclan.org/adelaide |
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Avatar-X
 
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 4 on 11/30/2004 1:16 PM >
| | | | The admins are working on a solution which will address these problems. We'll post about it when we've decided a good course of action.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 5 on 11/30/2004 1:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
The admins are working on a solution which will address these problems. We'll post about it when we've decided a good course of action.
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Cool. I'm glad to see something is being done. It's too much of a coincidence that these things have been happening. And like I said in another post, as much as these places will be subject to vandalism and other such nasty things, I'm sure there's a correlation between the two.
* waiting patiently 
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Boffo
 
Moderator
Location: Smithers, BC
Gender: Male
HONK! HONK!
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 6 on 11/30/2004 2:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Armstrong Cheese Factory. Was on the LDB for maybe 2 months before somebody vandalized inside, and subsequently was secured. |
I would hardly blame the LDB for that. Unless you know something that went on that I don't.
Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you. |
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Phantom403
Gender: Male
MOOOO!
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 7 on 11/30/2004 3:14 PM >
| | | | I've been reading and thinking about this issue for the last couple of days. I can't even begin to express my anger in what some more than likely young punk has decided to do for fun. Grace Hospital was high up in my To-Do list, and would have made for some incredible pics however, due to schedule conflicts my colleagues and I haven't been able to explore it yet. Now who knows if we'll ever get in there to explore it.
What I was thinking is we have trusted icon. This icon means somebody can vouch for you and that you are in fact a UER and not some punk vandal a@@hole Why not tighten down the requirements for this icon and only allow trusted individuals to view the UE DB?? At the same time put strict restrictions on posting where....we have counties, so instead of saying I found this in London....say I found this in Middlesex county???
My 2 cents for the day....all I know is I've seen what this has done and I can't believe it keeps happening over and over and over....
One VERY pissed Phantom403
The problem with the world is dumb people. I'm not advocating capital punishment for dumb people. I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the problem solve itself. |
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Phantom403
Gender: Male
MOOOO!
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 8 on 11/30/2004 3:18 PM >
| | | | One other side note is Av why not offer a free month's of premium service to anybody that has information leading to proof of which users are responsible for non-appropiate UER behaviour. Ie. Burning and Tagging
Then I'm sure the rest of the community can hand down an appropiate sentence. Ie. Tying them nekkid to a tree in the middle of nowhere, and tagged head to toe in either permanent ink or with a tatoo gun...tee hee....*twitch twitch*
Still Pissed Phantom403
The problem with the world is dumb people. I'm not advocating capital punishment for dumb people. I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the problem solve itself. |
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Indiana Jones
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Gender: Male
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 9 on 11/30/2004 3:29 PM >
| | | | I think giving limited info out would be the only real solution. No names or specific locations. Maybe just categories and broad locations.
Something like
Hospital, NYC
or
Drain, Westchester County
Yeah, it would suck for new people legitimately looking for new locations to explore, but isn't it called urban 'exploration'. If you are dedicated you will find places to explore. I don't think the random crackhead will go through too much trouble researching and scouting, they'll just find a random local place to set up shop.
"the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty." -1984 |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 10 on 11/30/2004 3:29 PM >
| | | | First off I dont think your average person coming to this site is going to be a vandal. Secondly if they come here to find places to tag/vandal they lurk like so many others. What can be done?
I am sure the mods have some idea's I just off the top of my head cant think of anything useful.
Well we could get some pipes find the bastards and break legs.
I know there is going to be issues I just wonder how much of this is circumstancial, how much comes from the DB, and how much is blind luck of seeing people entering the site. I cant even speculate, although others have.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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el nerdo
 
Chief UER Lackey
Gender: Male
What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 11 on 11/30/2004 4:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by Phantom403
What I was thinking is we have trusted icon. This icon means somebody can vouch for you and that you are in fact a UER and not some punk vandal a@@hole Why not tighten down the requirements for this icon and only allow trusted individuals to view the UE DB?? |
Correction: We had a trusted icon. Av saw fit to remove it.
Bottom line is there are *always* going to be people that use the LDB for a purpose that it wasn't intended for. Society is chock full of examples of other products and services where they aren't used as intended.
Should we hold the manufacturer of a hammer liable because someone decided to cave in someone else's skull with the hammer? Of course not.
But do we, as "responsible" urban explorers, need to exercise caution when providing specific location information that's accessable to anyone who can answer a simple quiz?
We sure do.
I vote for getting rid of the LDB altogether.
The LDB has evolved into something other than it was intended to be - notice how the site moved from just granting people the "LDB Star" for 5 entries to granting the star for posting entries that have been rated... the star is obviously a determining factor for some to contribute entries.
You'll also see entries that aren't needed: how many "abandoned houses" do we need?
Urban exploring got along just fine prior to the LDB; prior to uer.ca in general. Urban exploring will get along just fine without it.
Part of the whole thrill of exploring is the "exploring" part: A virtual map to places isn't really exploring, it's more of a tour guide.
As a group, we don't need the bad press that goes with maintaining an LDB.
[last edit 11/30/2004 4:18 PM by el nerdo - edited 1 times]
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 12 on 11/30/2004 4:22 PM >
| | | | You make a good point, but I dont think the LDB should go. If you take that concept and extend it we might as well take away much of the forum.
We wouldnt want anyone finding out about tabi boots and using them for robberies, or the numerous ideas etc everyone has. There goes tutorial section, not to mention the overlap into the Main quite a bit. Also peeping Toms can learn a lot from photography section to take pics without flashes.
Restrictions maybe, removing info maybe, removal fuck that.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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el nerdo
Chief UER Lackey
Gender: Male
What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 13 on 11/30/2004 4:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
You make a good point, but I dont think the LDB should go. If you take that concept and extend it we might as well take away much of the forum.
We wouldnt want anyone finding out about tabi boots and using them for robberies, or the numerous ideas etc everyone has. There goes tutorial section, not to mention the overlap into the Main quite a bit. Also peeping Toms can learn a lot from photography section to take pics without flashes.
Restrictions maybe, removing info maybe, removal fuck that.
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Well, if I ever went exploring with someone who actually wore tabi boots, I'd laugh so hard we'd get caught. ;)
I guess we'll just wait and see what big sekrit plans our leaders have planned.
Just like you, Mark, I can't think of anything they could do that will keep unscrupulous people from abusing the LDB info.
I guess it's just like the super top-secret-classified-I could tell you but I'd have to kill you door... we'll have to wait until the mods decide we're WORTHY of finding out their intentions.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 14 on 11/30/2004 4:41 PM >
|  | | | Posted by el nerdo
Well, if I ever went exploring with someone who actually wore tabi boots, I'd laugh so hard we'd get caught. ;)
|
As I'm sure the guy with the Tabi boots would be laughing at you from where he was getting into an *unclimbable* entrance point while you remained on the ground hoping he lets you in. ;)
Personally, I don't think explorers need the LDB. It's a shopping list for those to lazy to actually find things themselves. I've been an opponent of it since it started, but if it stays, I believe it has to be more secure and vague about the locations.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 15 on 11/30/2004 4:53 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
Personally, I don't think explorers need the LDB. It's a shopping list for those to lazy to actually find things themselves. I've been an opponent of it since it started, but if it stays, I believe it has to be more secure and vague about the locations.
|
I agree with that. It didn't exist when I first came around, and we found locations just fine, from speaking to other explorers and actually going out there and bloody well doing the legwork to find these places.
It is a shopping list and a pretty accessible one at that, and it just creates more problems than good.
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Location Database
<Reply # 16 on 11/30/2004 5:01 PM >
| | | | To make things clear, I've posted a new thread on this subject. Please post there.
huskies - such fluff. |
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