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 Chainsaw
   
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
 |  |  | OPEX in the US
< on 7/20/2004 11:33 PM >
|  | | | Okay, it looks like I'm going to be one of many members of the Opex committee group. I've been pushing hard for Colorado and the US for the Opex next year here and elsewhere but I keep coming across static from folks in Canada and elsewhere who are concerned about OPEX in the us because of our current "Security" status.
I would like to work here with other US explorers to see what we can do to recover our tarnished image as a free nation.
I'd like to hear your opinions on UE in the US since 9/11.
Here's a long ass quote from an old journal entry I made that sums it up for me pretty well:
Posted by Chainsaw
My biggest frustration with lobbying for OPEX Colorado is the US bashing that seems to dominate the opinions of non US folks. Worried about anti-terror bullshit and the risks involved. HELLLO! YOU'RE FUCKING EXPLORERS! YA KNOW THE WHOLE GO WHERE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO ATTITUDE?
Since September 11th my life hasn't changed one tenth of one percent in any way shape or form. The same can be said for MILLIONS of others - Canadians, Finns, Aussies and Americans. Oh no! longer lines at the airport to make sure Abdul doesn't have a C4 dildo up his ass! We should have had such measures BEFORE 9-11. Really - before 9/11 I'd have been much more tempted to pop through one of them secure doors at the airport to see what's what back there but that's about the biggest change I've seen - no physical changes - just mental ones.
Regardless of the images CNN and the BBC pump out continuously about how bad the US is - really - it's still better than most countries in the world. Sure, there have been some zealous reaction by our law enforcement and public safety officials. WATCHING A 737 SMASH INTO YOUR NATIONAL DEFENSE HEADQUARTERS WILL DO THAT!!! Sure, security may be a bit tighter in some locations - but I'm happy to have tighter security at important locations.
It says right on the front page of my website - "peeking into the nooks and crannies that get left behind as society moves forward" - those aren't the places with better security folks. Now I have to blame GW Bush and his posse for most of the shit. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT blame the Canadian explorers that are scared to come here. I'm pissed at my government for making my friends feel uncomfortable about coming to visit my home!
We're supposed to be the greatest society in the world - life, liberty, freedom all that good stuff but we've managed to turn that around 180 degrees and now Kimmo, a nice photographer from Finland thinks that coming to visit me will result in a body cavity search while some bible beating redneck asshole points an M16 at his head while secretly hoping he's a terrorist so he can live out his Hollywood induced fantasy of blowing someones head off.
Is Kimmo right? Sadly I can't say I'm 100% sure he isn't. 99% maybe - okay, 98% minimum. Really, millions of people cross our borders on a daily basis with no hassle whatsoever - probably even a few terrorists slip through - I don't see how we could catch them - and sure, sometimes someone gets fucked by the system and ends up under Bobby-Joe's boot in Gitmo. Shit happens - but it could happen to anyone anywhere. I'd rather be in US prison than, maybe except Canada, ANYWHERE! Travelling anywhere is a risk, if you were the type to stay at home where it's safe you probably wouldn't be on this board.
So, on behalf of all US citizens I would like to extend my heartfelt sincere apology for the actions of the few. You are welcome here! Though our government makes mistakes, not as many as some, more than others, but in general it is a good system.
Please, don't be "afraid" to visit me here in the US. I ask that when you travel here you respect our laws and customs (except tresspassing, of course) - DON'T try to sneak through customs with a C-4 dildo in your ass. Don't try to smuggle weapons or drugs in with you, we have plenty for everybody once you're over the border!
Please, don't be sheep - stray from the heard and head out for an adventure in Colorado - my home will take your breath away, it is beautiful, peaceful and wonderful. Adventure abounds here!
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Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Mark
  
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 1 on 7/20/2004 11:41 PM >
| | | | Id sure as hell go
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Noah Vale
Location: Portland, Or
It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay
| |  | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 2 on 7/21/2004 2:18 AM >
| | | | I'm strongly opposed to a US OPEx at this point. Sure, my life hasn't changed either, but I explore mostly alone and can easily explain my actions to a LEO if I were to be caught. Would I get a trespassing ticket or maybe spend the night in jail? Sure...maybe. And I accept that fact every time I go out and explore. However, I am not willing to be caught by LE with a large group of people, people being from many different states and countries. The simple fact is that large groups of people from a whole slew of places is gonna raise flags alot quicker than 1 or 2 or 3 local goons running around at night with cameras and flashlights. Of course, that doesn't mean I wouldn't attend a stateside OPEx, Denver is only 5 hours from me. I would probably just refrain from most exploratory outings though; or at least those in large groups.
All that said, I must confess that this whole post balances on the upcoming election. Kerry's election will bring me ALOT closer to supporting a stateside OPEx.
"Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. |
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Servo
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 3 on 7/21/2004 2:37 AM >
| | | | As I said on the OPEX list, I'll be trying to make up my mind based on the proposals. Chainsaw, I find it a bit unsettling that you feel this strongly if we are supposed to be objective. Please don't take that as an insult. I think the increased chance of getting hassled/jailed in the US is something that should be considered, and I'd like to think everyone on the committee can be neutral on this.
Anyway, like I said, I don't think there's any more need to discuss this as it should be something that's answered in the proposals.
[last edit 7/21/2004 2:37 AM by Servo - edited 1 times]
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EatsTooMuchJam
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Squirty "Stickybuns" von Cherrypants
| |  |  | | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 4 on 7/21/2004 3:06 AM >
| | | | I agree with Servo. I don't think this requires any more discussion in public on UER than it has already had. I also thought that the point of the committee was that none of them were really pushing for anything.
Don't forget that your audience may be much wider than you think when you make a public post on this forum.
I guarantee you that even though I don't subscribe to this silliness and paranoia about the US in general, if there's a lengthy discussion of having OPEX in Denver in the public forums, I will be nowhere near Denver during OPEX.
[last edit 7/21/2004 3:07 AM by EatsTooMuchJam - edited 1 times]
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
-Tom Waits |
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Burzum
Noble Donor
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 5 on 7/21/2004 3:44 AM >
| | | | IMO, this thread should be locked, and the entirely valid concerns raised by Chainsaw and others should be discussed in a more secure forum.
www.rouskrew.com
because evil won't just do itself. |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 6 on 7/21/2004 3:50 AM >
| | | | WAIT WAIT WAIT. I took my ass up to Canada, PUT MY WHOLE CAREER AND ALL FUTURE GOVERNMENT CAREERS. I think you guys bitching about being "caught" isnt that big of deal. I put my whole damn life in jepordy. I think he has a right to put down a public complaint.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Rinker's Revenge
Location: Formerly MSP, now PDX
Gender: Male
Oh yeah!
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 7 on 7/21/2004 4:07 AM >
| | | | Ok, I have no idea what most of that last post means, but I entirely agree with Servo, ETMJ, and Burzum that no further discussion or debate on this issue should take place in a public forum. Period.
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EatsTooMuchJam
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Squirty "Stickybuns" von Cherrypants
| | | | | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 8 on 7/21/2004 4:34 AM >
| | | | Mark is a military fellow. If he'd been arrested in Canadialand he'd have been in a bit of a world of shit job-wise. I think that's his point.
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
-Tom Waits |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | |  | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 9 on 7/21/2004 5:01 AM >
| | | | As much as I would love to see the next OPEX in Chainsaw's neck of the woods, it does not need to be discussed here or now. Private, whether boards or messages, should do the trick. Mods, please lock this.
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 10 on 7/21/2004 5:17 AM >
| | | | OK so how many people can we get on a private board ahh 30... since everyone isnt allowed in so we get the representation of the in crowd? We dont get to let everyone help decide so we ALL can go instead of a select group. I think not. I think it should be semi public if not fully.
Ohh yeah Eats To Much Jam hit on the head.
[last edit 7/21/2004 5:20 AM by Mark - edited 1 times]
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 11 on 7/21/2004 1:14 PM >
| | | | Regarding my objectivity - I don't believe I'm the only person in the opex group that is "pulling" for their location for the next opex.
The only pushing I've done so far is to request that any group that wants to host opex be given the opportunity to present their location to the comittee for further consideration. I think it's too early to decide whether or not Colorado is an option - or Minneapolis, or Dallas - or whatever, just because it happens to be in the US.
As far as public vs private discussion of this item goes - I think there should be some public discussion on the matter. In fact, if Law Enforcement is represented here in some capacity I would request you come forward and work with our community to execute a safe and secure event.
Security will be a major issue for Opex regardless of where it is held. I would request that specific dates/times and plans for any future opex not be openly published here or anywhere. Discussing the pros and cons of having such an event in the US should not be a taboo subject.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Avatar-X
  
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 12 on 7/22/2004 6:38 PM >
| | | | I've restored this thread for these reasons:
1. There is nothing here that breaks the rules (thus no deletion is warranted)
2. The specific dates and/or locations of OPEX have not been discussed (so there's no security risk)
3. This is a real issue and not just some stupid thread
If anyone has a problem with this, feel free to message me, but don't post it here.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 13 on 7/22/2004 6:50 PM >
| | | | </me does happy dance>
Thanks Av. I agree. I see no problem with discussing general ideas and issues. I have no intentions of sharing specific loation or schedule information here and strongly recommend against it.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Servo
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 14 on 7/22/2004 8:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chainsaw
I see no problem with discussing general ideas and issues. I have no intentions of sharing specific loation or schedule information here and strongly recommend against it.
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Well, I didn't mean it wasn't worth discussing -- I just said, I think the issue is something that the proposals ought to deal with. I'm not "pulling" for any specific location because unless it ends up in Atlanta or something, I'll have to fly there no matter what.
And yes, I agree, specific information should most certainly not be posted on any public fora.
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 15 on 7/22/2004 8:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by Servo
Well, I didn't mean it wasn't worth discussing -- I just said, I think the issue is something that the proposals ought to deal with.
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Then we're in agreement. However there seems to be a lot of folks that want to put in their 2 cents on the subject before we reach that point. I felt it was important to give folks a place to soapbox on what they think on the matter so we can all make better decisions.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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RevSM
Location: South Central Texas
| | | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 16 on 7/22/2004 8:37 PM >
| | | | We might keep in mind that a US Urban Explorer Meet doesn’t necessarily have to be directly related to the World wide UE meet, OPEX. We had a Texas Urban Explorer Meet (UTEX) a couple months ago and while it was on a much smaller scale than OPEX it was fun and worked out pretty well. I guess who and how many people want to go depends on how serious it should be.
I think that might have been a little off topic but on a more related note, Mox, Porfzilla and I showed a guy from Sweden around Houston while he was here. While we didn’t have much luck getting into much, he didn’t seem to have a problem with the current state of security in the US.
Also, now that people from last year’s OPEX have some experience with managing a large group and planning such a large event, maybe it will be easier to plan even better and try to organize smaller groups and work more on stealth so that some worries about getting caught can be somewhat alleviated.
I hope this makes sense. It’s been a long day.
Tetanus for Breakfast!
http://www.shatteredshutter.com |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 17 on 7/23/2004 7:52 AM >
| | | | I still dislike the idea of
1. it being in the last city. I loved it but dont want same thing twice
2. Canada being the only country involved in the decsion making
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Servo
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 18 on 7/23/2004 7:54 AM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
2. Canada being the only country involved in the decsion making
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It's not man... at least half the committee's US-based.
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: OPEX in the US
<Reply # 19 on 7/23/2004 7:56 AM >
| | | | err the only country being looked at
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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