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 Nosferatu Von
   
Location: Ancaster
Gender: Male
 |  | My personal UE ethics
< on 5/4/2004 3:39 PM >
|  | | | I do not support the structutal damage of a location and get really pissed off when I see large amounts of grafitti or destruction, but these are the ethics I personally follow:
1- "Theft"
My personal view is, if it's small, there's thousands of them or something so common no one will miss it, by all means take it. An example would be the Hamilton Thistle Club. We each (3 of us) took 2 cardboard coasters after we found several boxes full of them. No harm done.
When a place becomes closed or abandoned, they previous owners would take everything with them that they needed / wanted. You have 3 months to leave before you are evicted, PLENTY of time to figure out what you're taking.
Now, big things. If I were the first person in a place and I saw a laptop, of course I'm going to take it. If you saw it and didn't, that's your perogative. It doesn't mean you're better than others... it means you have diffrent views. If it's in an abandoned house, it's up for grabs.
2- Grafitti
Tagging is fine. Not enormous murals, but a tag contraining 3 - 12 characters OR a small drawing no larger than 6" x 6". Also, avoid putting these in plain as day places. A place you have to find is a better place than one you can see.
3- Smoking
If the building had nothing flamable in it and is reasonably well ventilated, by all means smoke there. Be careful you don't set anything on fire.
4- Garbage
Don't leave garbage in plain sight. If you have something like a coffee cup, either wait until you leave or put it with a lot of other garbage, either in a garbage can or in a garbage bag.
Seems your Phenomena is a Phenoma-NOT. |
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Akane
Noble Donor
Location: London, Ontario
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 1 on 5/4/2004 3:57 PM >
| | | | You're just looking for a flame war here aren't you?
I'll start off politely.
1. Theft is theft
2. Tagging is vandalism
These two things get places locked down, and make the police suspisious of people looking at buildings. They can't possibly advance urban exploration. Instead of theft, take a picture of it. Instead of tagging, go home, nobody wants to see your name on a wall.
3. Smoking is yucky
4. Litter isn't very nice
Ok, so these two aren't so bad, unless you happen to burn the place down after dropping a lit cigarette while running from security. I guess it could happen.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| |  | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 2 on 5/4/2004 4:16 PM >
|  | | | Posted by NVKahos
1- "Theft"
Now, big things. If I were the first person in a place and I saw a laptop, of course I'm going to take it. If you saw it and didn't, that's your perogative. It doesn't mean you're better than others... |
You seem to fail to grasp that something *abandoned* still belongs to someone. It's not some mystical term that gives you free reign to steal. Some places are abandoned because the owner currently doesn't have the funds or options to have the place active at this time. That can change easily though. Then what you've done is steal from the person that owns the place and cause that person hardship through your theft.
A thief is a thief is a thief...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Detroit
 
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| |  | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 3 on 5/4/2004 4:24 PM >
| | | | Well said Jester!
NVKahos, you may have your own set of ethics that let you sleep well at night but I don't think you are going to find much support for them on here.
Take only pictures, leave only footprints, it's the only way to go man!
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 4 on 5/4/2004 4:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
A thief is a thief is a thief...
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Aah, let the flame war begin *grin*
Jester...I'd ask you then..what about all those people who take something small, like NVKahos? I know a lot of members on this board, and a large majority of them wouldn't hesitate to take a small souvenier, even if they won't admit it. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with taking something that won't get noticed. I was at a site not too long ago, I took a business card from the old office. Some people in the chat freaked out at me. Guess what? 2 weeks later the site was totally demolished. Kinda makes me wish I went for more goodies.
I'm not saying theft is justified, but if a site is abandoned, it's abandoned for a reason, and anything of value has already been removed, so certainly nobody will miss it. I have my own ethics, as does everyone else on here...I just ask the respect that you (meaning, everyone else) doesn't try and throw theirs around as if it's law.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Detroit
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| | | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 5 on 5/4/2004 4:33 PM >
| | | | ExKa|iBuR, what is the point of a souvenir that when shown out of its original context has no meaning at all?
"Hey look everyone here is the business card I found in that old factory"... yeah so what?
My point is that a small item like a business card might seem like a cool reminder of the place when you first pick it up but chances are you'll just end up tossing it at some point in the future.
Wouldn't you be better off to take a cool picture of the item in it the environment you found it in? That way you could look back at the picture in 10 years and the item will still be as interesting as it was when you first saw it.
[last edit 5/4/2004 4:34 PM by Detroit - edited 1 times]
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 6 on 5/4/2004 4:58 PM >
| | | | Personally, a business card or something isn't a huge ethical problem to me. But, just by taking that little piece of paper, you could be charged with theft. As stupid as it sounds, that tiny scrap could do that... If you remember the explorer in Arizona I believe, that got caught, and had picked up a scrap of paper from a sign that was on the ground, and he was being charged with (among other things) theft. Doesn't seem a worthwhile trade off to me.
Here's some things I could have taken...
Know why I didn't take them ? because I'm not a thief...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Nosferatu Von
Location: Ancaster
Gender: Male
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 7 on 5/4/2004 5:00 PM >
| | | | Take only pictures, leave only footprints, it's the only way to go man!
|
Just because that's the way this particular forum views something like this doesn't mean it's the way it should be done. I've been into Urban Exploration loooooong before this site was ever around and I will be when it's gone. I could make my own, better site and forum if I really felt like it.
These two things get places locked down, and make the police suspisious of people looking at buildings. They can't possibly advance urban exploration. Instead of theft, take a picture of it. Instead of tagging, go home, nobody wants to see your name on a wall.
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Yeah... you have no idea what you're talking about. A place getting "locked down" makes it more fun to get into again. That's the way I see it. I'd rather go into a factory or something that would be a challenge to gain enterance to then something which I just had to walk through the front door.
As for tags, there are people who want to see it there... ME! I want to see my tag on a wall of which I've been.
what is the point of a souvenir that when shown out of its original context has no meaning at all?
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Who said the original context is gone?
[last edit 5/4/2004 5:04 PM by Nosferatu Von - edited 1 times]
Seems your Phenomena is a Phenoma-NOT. |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 8 on 5/4/2004 5:01 PM >
| | | | Was this site active? There's still power to the Motorola Tone Remote (which would be very tempting), and to the confuser...
I'd never take anything from an active site.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 9 on 5/4/2004 5:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by NVKahos
As for tags, there are people who want to see it there... ME! I want to see my tag on a wall of which I've been. |
I'mma break my rule about not pushing beliefs on others....Taggers belong in jail. Don't do it.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Nosferatu Von
Location: Ancaster
Gender: Male
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 10 on 5/4/2004 5:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
I'mma break my rule about not pushing beliefs on others....Taggers belong in jail. Don't do it.
-Ex
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Rapists and murderers belong in jail... and there's already not enough room for them.
Seems your Phenomena is a Phenoma-NOT. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 11 on 5/4/2004 5:23 PM >
| | | | I hate graffiti "artists" and taggers. The arguement that they are adding something interesting to an otherwise blank wall is null and void. First of all, that wall is not yours to be modifying or decorating, regardless of how ugly or blank it is. I can hardly see how scribbling your gang-banger callsign in illegible script and bubbly letters every 20 feet constitutes beauty. It's an eyesore in a place that would otherwise be very beautiful in and of it's self.
I have to say that I do not like your "ethics" regarding theft at all. I am guilty of taking a small memento or trinket on occasion, as per the drink coaster example, but a laptop?!? If you are seriously willing to grab a laptop on first sight and justify it by saying that nobody knew it was there before or saw you took it, you're definitely depriving someone of their (rather expensive) property.
Taking a drink coaster, a busted room number, or a spare vacuum tube is still just as much theft in the eye of the law, but stealing a laptop or anything else that the proper owner will most definitely miss has much greater implications. What would you think if I took a lightbulb from your basement while "exploring" it? You probably wouldn't mind much, but it would still be stealing from you. Now how about if I smoked a few cigarettes down there, left my fast food trash in a neat pile in the corner, scribbled my name on your walls a few times, and grabbed your laptop and home theater amplifier on my way out? This would probably seriously piss you off, and you completely "justified" my actions with your statement of "ethics".
Try thinking about it from other peoples' perspectives some time and modify your behavior accordingly.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| |  |  | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 12 on 5/4/2004 5:25 PM >
| | | | Dude, they only way to classify you and you actions is as IDIOCY!
Nuff said, buh-bye.
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 13 on 5/4/2004 5:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by NVKahos
Rapists and murderers belong in jail... and there's already not enough room for them.
|
That's because they're too full with idiots that tag *grin*
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Nosferatu Von
Location: Ancaster
Gender: Male
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 14 on 5/4/2004 5:40 PM >
| | | | I think you are all too closed minded to consider anything the moderators of this website do not deem as acceptable.
Under certain circumstances, I would not take a laptop. Not if the place was freshly closed. If the place has been abandoned for god knows how long and you find something cool, who cares if you take it?
Funny thing is, I wouldn't think about going into an active place at all. That IS breaking an entering, and because it's active, you have a much higher chance of security systems, guards and whatnot.
Seems your Phenomena is a Phenoma-NOT. |
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Detroit
Moderator
Location: Ottawa /Gatineau /Montreal
Gender: Male
4-aminophenol and 2-5% potassium hydroxide
| | | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 15 on 5/4/2004 5:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by NVKahos
... I've been into Urban Exploration loooooong before this site was ever around and I will be when it's gone. I could make my own, better site and forum if I really felt like it....
|
Really?
I AM seriously impressed.
Maybe I was wrong.
Perhaps if I adopt your ethics I will become a superior human being as well.
Common dude give it a rest.
You started this thread; don't berate the rest of us for not agreeing with your screwy logic.
The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end. |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 16 on 5/4/2004 5:50 PM >
| | | | Well, in Canada, entering into ANY location you don't have permission to be in is considered Breaking and Entering, even if you just walked through an open door...
Point being, just because YOU don't think it's of any value doesn't mean someone else doesn't. I do agree though, that if a site is about to be demolished, those rules can be flexible.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Ninjalicious
Gone, but always with us
Location: Toronto
| | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 17 on 5/4/2004 5:51 PM >
|  | | | Detroit made a good point: 'souvenirs' become worthless when they're separated from their context. Although I admit I've taken seemingly worthless trinkets before, when I was younger and foolisher, I now think it's a mistake to take even something as small as a coaster or a business card. Take a picture or a memory instead. It means more.
Excalibur wrote:
I know a lot of members on this board, and a large majority of them wouldn't hesitate to take a small souvenier, even if they won't admit it.
|
If they won't admit it, that's probably because they know it's wrong, so it's unlikely they have much to contribute to a discussion of ethics.
Excalibur wrote:
if a site is abandoned, it's abandoned for a reason, and anything of value has already been removed, so certainly nobody will miss it.
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Everything of value has most certainly not been removed! Most abandoned buildings are filled with items of immeasurable value, at least to explorers. Whoever stole the old "Top Floor Get Off" sign from the Malt Plant took something of incredible value away from that site.
NVKahos wrote:
I could make my own, better site and forum if I really felt like it.
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Great! I hope you will.
Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org
[last edit 5/4/2004 5:52 PM by Ninjalicious - edited 1 times]
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 18 on 5/4/2004 5:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by NVKahos
...Funny thing is, I wouldn't think about going into an active place at all. That IS breaking an entering...
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You haven't a clue what you're talking about. There vast majority of explorations of active sites involve no breaking and entering at all.
You rationalize being a thief, plain and simple. At least you admit what you do, but it's still being a thief...
You think people agree with mods because we're mods ? You reallllly have no clue.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Mr. Yuk
| | Re: My personal UE ethics
<Reply # 19 on 5/4/2004 5:55 PM >
| | | | Posted by NVKahos
Funny thing is, I wouldn't think about going into an active place at all. That IS breaking an entering, and because it's active, you have a much higher chance of security systems, guards and whatnot.
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No matter what status a building is in (abandoned or no), pushing an unlocked door open is Breaking and Entering!
<E
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