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| 1 2 3 4 | UER Forum > UE Main > Urban Exploration Doesn't Exist, and Never Has--Thoughts from A Controversial Explorer (Viewed 8795 times) |
Max Power @strangeplaces
Total Likes: 224 likes
I do it for the views *Specializes in stealing Nazi VHS tapes from Nazi monuments for the views*
| | | | Re: Urban Exploration Doesn't Exist, and Never Has--Thoughts from A Controversial Explorer < Reply # 43 on 4/23/2020 2:47 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by Boffo I disagree that there isn't an urban exploration community. I have explored with different people who I would have never interacted with save for our common interest in urban exploration. I have hosted people from thousands of miles away and visited people thousands of miles away, this is absolutely a community. I don't understand why you feel the need to justify yourself to the members at UER. For those who have been exploring for decades you are hard pressed to receive their praise, recognition, or interest. In the same way that I have never watched any of your videos or follow any exploring themed instagram page outside of landing on one while doing online research. I choose not to engage with large parts of the urban exploration community. When people link me youtube videos of abandoned buildings I find them incredibly boring and have zero interest in watching them. That isn't to say there isn't currently a whole group of people who didn't get their start from instagram or youtube. Like many others (including yourself) I started exploring without knowing there was an online community. But I was happy there was one. When I started exploring Infiltration was still publishing zines and UER was a very different place due to the quality and prohibitively high cost of cameras and camcorders available. I have seen pristine locations destroyed by explorers, vandals, arsonists, and development. I actively try and prevent my actions from accelerating that process and encourage others to do the same: Take only photos, leave only footprints and usufruct (the right to enjoy the use and advantages of another's property short of the destruction or waste of its substance) being two primary examples. My ethics do not align with fame-seekers and people trying to monetize urban exploring at the expense of locations. Just remember that to some parts of the community you might be hot shit in a champagne glass. But to others you're just diarrhea in a dixie cup. And it's up to you to decide if you care or not. I grew out of the desire for peer validation and I guarantee you will too. That said I do occasionally still choose to contribute to the LDB because I like it and as a moderator I feel somewhat obligated.
Why did you bold the whole thing? It was incredibly difficult to read.
| I appreciate you and so many others reading the entire post. What I was trying to get at is that urbex has a culture, but isn't a culture in itself. I'm not trying to split hairs here, but urbex culture is separate from the activity of urban exploring, which originated from the loss of unexplored territory (for those of you who didn't read it I traced the origins of urban exploration to the exploration of the world throughout human history, and prehistory). I was making the point that no one owns, or invented urban exploration. Posted by Aran I think that one place I disagree with you is your statement that "urbex is not a subculture." It absolutely is. There exists a "core" community that had been doing this for decades, during which time they have created their own countercultural movement.
| Arran I also appreciate that you took the time to read the entire thing. You said that urban explorers "(created) their own countercultural movement.." This is correct, but the culture had be created. Urban exploration in itself was never created. The activity is an evolution of the exploration of the world, something we've been doing for thousands of years. I bring-up these points for a few reasons. 1. Simply because people participate in urban exploration, and a lot of people aren't quite sure why, and I think many of the reasons are illustrated in my article. I think it;s an interesting conversation and discussion to be had. 2. In the first half I explain why people aren't simply exploiting a subculture because people don't realize there is a subculture to be exploited. They explore from impulses that come from within themselves. Also, I don't understand why everyone thinks everything I do is about validation lol. I didn't write this article to receive validation from people on this site, I wrote it because I wanted to explain that my side of the community is not being driven 100% by profits, or by likes. We actually enjoy what we do. And this article was partially a last-ditch effort to try and bridge the ever growing divide between the new generation and the old. In Chicago especially there have been several conflicts between these two groups. The conflicts almost turned violent after fake accounts began leaking the addresses of my crew members and, as well as giving out private information of my crew's families (if you want I can give you the whole story). The other side also wanted us to, "pull up," but they never gave us an address, and just blocked everyone. In the past they also hacked my (now ex) girlfriend's instagram. It seems like Chicago is always the center of the confrontation, but they occur elsewhere as well. The clearly malicious intent of some of these individuals is giving everyone on the opposite side of the community a bad name. Everyone who has complaints now are now simply labeled as "haters," because we can't really tell the haters from people who have legitimate concerns. During the latest confrontation for example, I decided to have a conversation over the phone with someone who simply wanted us to stop posting instagram stories when we go to locations so that the whole world doesn't know the location is open/accessible. This was the day after the fake accounts leaked all this information, and I originally was very hostile to this individual until I realized that he wasn't a guy trying to start shit online, he actually cared about Chicago area spots, and he was asking for something extremely reasonable. His crew and ours pretty much came to an agreement that we wouldn't post stories until at least a few weeks/months after we visited a location. These are the sort of things that I think need to happen between the two factions of this community. I don't think this level of hostility should continue. I wrote this so that this side of the community can understand where we are coming from so maybe we don't have to be as hostile towards one another. On my end of the community I've become somewhat influential, and it would seem irresponsible if I didn't at least try and get people to at least partially chill out. It'd be more productive if we could be civil towards one another. And btw if I just wanted online attention, shit I would just walk around downtown Chicago in a speedo while its snowing and put that on the internet. But that'd be stupid, boring, and it wouldn't really be a creative challenge.
| Take nothing but Nazi VHS tapes, leave nothing but footprints, drink nothing but Dos Equis. Stay thirsty my friends. |
| "ghost"
Location: Colorado Gender: Male Total Likes: 31 likes
I climb. I jump. I explore.
| | | Re: Urban Exploration Doesn't Exist, and Never Has--Thoughts from A Controversial Explorer < Reply # 46 on 4/23/2020 3:53 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | I am not new to exploring, but I am new to the exploration culture. I never even thought to look for other people who did what I did, I just made my own plans and did my own things exactly as I felt they should be done. Now that I'm learning more about this (very real) community that exists, I believe I'm in an interesting position to weigh in. I suppose I fall into the "preservationist" category, although fuck titles and expectations; real life doesn't work that way. I've never had any social media accounts and I despise their vanity. Posted by Max Power @strangeplaces 2. In the first half I explain why people aren't simply exploiting a subculture because people don't realize there is a subculture to be exploited. They explore from impulses that come from within themselves.
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Sure, so maybe some people, like me, had no idea the culture existed. But here I am; I cared enough about urbex to do 5min of googling and landed on this site very easily. It's not hard to find. Posted by Max Power @strangeplaces Also, I don't understand why everyone thinks everything I do is about validation lol. I didn't write this article to receive validation from people on this site, I wrote it because I wanted to explain that my side of the community is not being driven 100% by profits, or by likes. We actually enjoy what we do.
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I don't doubt that you enjoy what you do, we're all here because we enjoy it, right? If not, why the hell are you reading this right now? The center of this issue is a cost vs benefit analysis between what you're getting out of the publicity and the cost that's taking it's toll on the community locations. There's a discrepancy there - you're drawing personal benefit at the cost of a community resource; you can't expect that community to be happy about it. I don't think doxxing is ever okay and I'm sorry that happened to you and your crew. There are crazies on every side, I really do feel for you. Here's the philosophy I learned and adopted from the Leave No Trace program: "What if 100 people did exactly as I did? What would the impact be?" In this case the publicity you bring to locations behaves very similarly to pollution in the environment. You're setting an example that others will follow, and the effects of that can be devastating.
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| Beebs
Gender: Both Total Likes: 55 likes
| | | Re: Urban Exploration Doesn't Exist, and Never Has--Thoughts from A Controversial Explorer < Reply # 50 on 4/24/2020 2:53 AM > | Reply with Quote
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| Strange places with Max Power and Free4All, also Eric and Myles |
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UER Forum > UE Main > Urban Exploration Doesn't Exist, and Never Has--Thoughts from A Controversial Explorer (Viewed 8795 times) | 1 2 3 4 | |
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