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insanebuslady
 
location:
?
Gender: Male
"You talkin' to me?"
 |  |  | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 20 on 5/26/2010 12:10 AM >
|  | | | Call the police station and ask for your camera back. I don't think they can confiscate that from you
Police abuse their powers all the time
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/-/ooligan
    
location:
Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 21 on 5/26/2010 2:32 AM >
| | | | Posted by insanebuslady
Call the police station and ask for your camera back. I don't think they can confiscate that from you
Police abuse their powers all the time
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I dunno about that, however, if it was seized, confiscated, or whatever you want to call it, he should have been given a receipt for it.
He's leaving out some details. I can't say I blame him for that, but I'm also starting to think this isn't really a case of some young, harmless explorers finding an open door & going in to document a place in the true spirit of UE.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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EatsTooMuchJam
location:
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Squirty "Stickybuns" von Cherrypants
| |  |  | |  | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 22 on 5/26/2010 2:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by insanebuslady
Call the police station and ask for your camera back. I don't think they can confiscate that from you
Police abuse their powers all the time
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While I'm not a lawyer, it's not at all uncommon for police to seize a camera during an arrest if they feel that it is likely to contain evidence. When I got my trespassing ticket, they held onto my camera and its Pelican case for a few weeks and if they'd wanted to, from the sound of things, they could have held onto it until trial. It was only through intervention of a friend with ties in the department that I got it back as quickly as I did.
Also along those lines, it's also worth carrying a card full of boring stuff/exteriors to swap into your camera. I've heard of several explorers avoiding trouble by showing their photos to the authorities when they showed up. "No, I didn't go inside. See? All these photos are from outside the fence!"
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
-Tom Waits |
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Buffalonian
location:
Buffalo, NY
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 23 on 5/26/2010 2:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by Double_H
Evidence to be used how? I don't think they can take your camera if you weren't arrested (handcuffed).
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I think you are correct about that.
I cream, you cream, we all cream for .. white spooge. |
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KalWin
 
location:
Longmont, CO
Gender: Female
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 24 on 5/26/2010 2:59 PM >
| | | | true that, I always carry a spare card and swap them out on the way out of whatever it is I'm inside of. Usually if there's a girl with me it goes right in her bra, I've found its the safest place to hide it 
http://www.flickr....otos/21618753@N05/ |
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fiftyone_eggs
 
location:
jerzey
Gender: Male
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 25 on 5/26/2010 4:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by /-/ooligan
Seems like you leaned the hard-way that there's a difference between a truly abandoned building and a vacant one.
/-/oolie
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generally, 99% of places explored on this forum are NOT actually abandoned. somebody somewhere owns it. and the cops seizing your property without an arrest was an abuse of power, but cops will do whatever you let them do. no matter. what's done is done. it really sucks that happened, and the owner sounds like a real tool - getting the cops involved and slapping you with extra charges. i hate to read accounts like this. best of luck!
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/-/ooligan
location:
Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 26 on 5/27/2010 2:04 AM >
| | | | Posted by fiftyone_eggs
generally, 99% of places explored on this forum are NOT actually abandoned. somebody somewhere owns it. and the cops seizing your property without an arrest was an abuse of power, but cops will do whatever you let them do. no matter. what's done is done. it really sucks that happened, and the owner sounds like a real tool - getting the cops involved and slapping you with extra charges. i hate to read accounts like this. best of luck!
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Hey, I'm into UE'ing & curious about what's inside various places just like everyone else, but I really think you're crazy if you think there shouldn't be legal consequences if you get caught trespassing on or especially in someone else's property, regardless of whether or not it is vacant. It seems like for some people, that risk is most of the fun they get UE'ing.
The alarm goes off, or someone sees something strange, and what, no one is supposed to do anything, other than assume it's just some harmless, innocent young boy scouts exploring? BS!
If you & your family are off at Disneyland for a week, does that mean your home is 'vacant' & my friends & I can come on in & have a UE party?
If you own a warehouse that's empty while you're trying to sell it, remodel it, or whatever, and you're still paying $$$ in property taxes, utility bills, etc. do you really think that a complete stranger has the right to declare your building 'abandoned' and thus be able to enter it to do whatever? If the alarm goes off, are you going to just show up on your own & investigate, perhaps encountering some armed burglars, or are you going to expect the alarm company that you pay $$ to will immediately call the police (who are funded by your tax dollars) & that they will show up & take legal action?
UE'ing is fun, but let's accept reality here instead of whining about the police & the property owner!
/-/ooligan
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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Untuned Misfits (Nick)
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 27 on 5/27/2010 3:26 AM >
| | | | well, the thing is, there were no no trespassing signs, no cameras, and there waasn't even a fence, and the loading docks werent locked. so it was pretty well fair game, plus the owner wasn't really that mad, he thought it was funny that 3 kids were in his old target building, he actually called some of his friends to tell them the story.
i also did leave out part of the story, in the room that we were found in, there was full spray paint cans on the tables, now, I DIDN'T touch any of it, but we did have a new part of the crew with us that day, and we didn't quite explain the rules of urban exploring. so, he picks up one of the cans and starts painting the walls behind us. but since it was a group type offence, we all got charged with it, thats what i meant by my more experienced friend and i didn't vandalize (as in we), and i got charged extra for no reason.
[last edit 5/27/2010 5:36 AM by Untuned Misfits (Nick) - edited 2 times]
the dark is never a bad thing. |
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digital_me
location:
Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 28 on 5/27/2010 4:06 AM >
| | | | Posted by Untuned Misfits (Nick)
i also did leave out part of the story, in the room that we were found in, there was full spray paint cans on the tables, now, I DIDN'T touch any of it, but we did have a new part of the crew with us that day, and we didn't quite explain the rules of urban exploring. so, he picks up one of the cans and starts painting the walls behind us. but since it was a group type offence, we all got charged with it, thats what i meant by my more experienced friend and i didn't vandalize (as in we), and i got charged extra for no reason.
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Well shit, that blows. IDK what you can do about that. Get a lawyer.
And this Target has been abandoned for years. Three or four afaik. It's always been easy as hell to get into. Shit, one of my friends had keys to it at one point.
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EatsTooMuchJam
location:
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Squirty "Stickybuns" von Cherrypants
| | | | | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 29 on 5/27/2010 2:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by Untuned Misfits (Nick)
i also did leave out part of the story, in the room that we were found in, there was full spray paint cans on the tables, now, I DIDN'T touch any of it, but we did have a new part of the crew with us that day, and we didn't quite explain the rules of urban exploring. so, he picks up one of the cans and starts painting the walls behind us. but since it was a group type offence, we all got charged with it, thats what i meant by my more experienced friend and i didn't vandalize (as in we), and i got charged extra for no reason.
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How does the owner know which of you picked up a can and started painting? This is why you don't do certain types of UE with unknown people. You have no idea if they're going to do something stupid - and if you're caught, you're just as likely to get the book thrown at you.
Think of it this way - you're a cop. You catch a guy trespassing who is with a guy who just graffitied (sp?) a building. The guy's camera is full of photos of graffiti. Which conclusion do you draw?
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
-Tom Waits |
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fiftyone_eggs
location:
jerzey
Gender: Male
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 30 on 5/27/2010 3:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by /-/ooligan
Hey, I'm into UE'ing & curious about what's inside various places just like everyone else, but I really think you're crazy if you think there shouldn't be legal consequences if you get caught trespassing on or especially in someone else's property, regardless of whether or not it is vacant. It seems like for some people, that risk is most of the fun they get UE'ing.
The alarm goes off, or someone sees something strange, and what, no one is supposed to do anything, other than assume it's just some harmless, innocent young boy scouts exploring? BS!
If you & your family are off at Disneyland for a week, does that mean your home is 'vacant' & my friends & I can come on in & have a UE party?
If you own a warehouse that's empty while you're trying to sell it, remodel it, or whatever, and you're still paying $$$ in property taxes, utility bills, etc. do you really think that a complete stranger has the right to declare your building 'abandoned' and thus be able to enter it to do whatever? If the alarm goes off, are you going to just show up on your own & investigate, perhaps encountering some armed burglars, or are you going to expect the alarm company that you pay $$ to will immediately call the police (who are funded by your tax dollars) & that they will show up & take legal action?
UE'ing is fun, but let's accept reality here instead of whining about the police & the property owner!
/-/ooligan
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there are a set of UE ethics that all of us here should adhere to, but keeping our exploration strictly to the confines of technically and legally abandoned/un-owned properties is generally not among them.
nobody said there shouldn't be legal consequences to what we do. part of doing this is accepting that fact. however, most of us are harmless photographers who, besides the act of trespassing, do nothing to raise the ire of police and property owners. that is why i get offended when property owners tack on additional charges like vandalism.
anyways, now since a member of the UE party was actually tagging the place up, i've changed my tune to: you got what you deserve.
to set the record straight, if the cops think anybody in your party was tagging, everybody in the party can be charged with vandalism because to accompany the act and not intervene makes you an accessory to the crime.
[last edit 5/27/2010 3:44 PM by fiftyone_eggs - edited 1 times]
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Kokopelli
location:
Jacksonville, Florida
Gender: Male
Crack Smokin' Parrot
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 31 on 5/28/2010 1:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by digital_me
Oh well it's not like my Uni found out anyway lol. Guess I'd better find out before I start applying for jobs though...
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I was charged with a Class-6 Felony as a kid, case was dismissed. Only time it came back up was when I was trying to help out a mate and the Juvenile Affairs representative asked if I had a "record." Has never come up with anything since then. Then again, I try to avoid most Government officials if I can help it.
But rest assured, it hasn't affected me at all.
"...Adapt yourself to the things among which your lot has been cast and love sincerely the fellow creatures with whom destiny has ordained that you shall live..." --Marcus Aurelius |
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digital_me
location:
Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 32 on 5/28/2010 2:19 AM >
| | | | Posted by Kokopelli
I was charged with a Class-6 Felony as a kid, case was dismissed. Only time it came back up was when I was trying to help out a mate and the Juvenile Affairs representative asked if I had a "record." Has never come up with anything since then. Then again, I try to avoid most Government officials if I can help it.
But rest assured, it hasn't affected me at all.
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Got a job today...no questions, no piss tests. That's my kinda job. I was convicted, just informed it wouldn't go on a record that would be available after I turned 18. Still haven't looked into that lol.
Nick, you find out if you're being charged and with what? Who's prosecuting, is it municipal? You could try having your parents call the prosecutor and see if they'll drop it. It's worth a shot. If they're not on a law and order kick (a.k.a. getting caught during the DNC >_<) you might have a chance that way.
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FFEMT5034
Gender: Male
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 33 on 5/28/2010 3:46 AM >
| | | | In this case, it sounds as if you deserved the charge and conviction you received. As far as the camera is concerned, turning it over to the police officer was his offer of making it "easy" on you. If you would have declined, the officer would have had every right to place you under arrest, and seize any property on your person that he believes may contain evidence of the crime.
By you turning over the evidence, the police officer spared you the time and expense of being booked.
I have found that a lot of the allegation of police abuse (such as property confiscation) are simply misunderstood acts of leniency on the part of the officer. The only kids I have ever arrested doing this type of activity were ones who were vandalizing the property and refused to cooperate once they were caught. Like I always said, telling the truth and being polite can be the difference between going to jail/court, and receiving a stern (or sometimes not-so stern) warning.
I really hope you and your friends have learned a valuable lesson from this process. I also hope that you were able to get your camera back! Don't let this dissuade you from future explorations - simply learn more about the trade! You should try to be as unobtrusive as possible.
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digital_me
location:
Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 34 on 5/28/2010 6:12 AM >
| | | |
Lol narc
Most police offers of leniency are to get to you waive rights and make it easy on them...might work out for you might not. If the police is asking you then they don't have legal basis to do it unless you waive rights, basically. They wouldn't ask you otherwise. Yeah it's scary as shit but if you assert your rights then there's a chance it won't be admissible or it could be supressed. IANAL though.
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FFEMT5034
Gender: Male
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 35 on 5/28/2010 12:33 PM >
| | | | Digital,
For a major crime, I would agree. Assert your constitutional rights, and don't give them any ammo. However, in the case of simple trespassing, the police officer isn't going to want to do all of the paperwork involved with placing someone under arrest, having to conduct an investigation, then show up in court and testify - in that instance, there is at least 20 hours invested into the case. Much easier to issue a citation for trespassing. Trust me, been there done that.
I think the biggest reason they are making as big of an issue out of it as they are is because someone was vandalizing the building. The whole, "We were just looking around" story only goes so far...especially when vandalism tools are found on your person.
Based on the information you have provided, the officer had enough evidence to conduct a probable cause arrest for burglary. In the event you would have been arrested, your camera and other equipment would have been legally seized as evidence of the crime. This would have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you were on the property, and if it went to trial without a plea agreement, you may have been convicted on the burglary or breaking and entering charge. I think we would all agree that a trespassing charge is much easier to handle than burglary or B&E.
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CanadianRhian
location:
Centennial, Colorado
Gender: Male
Cats don't make good UE partners!
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 36 on 6/8/2010 6:01 AM >
| | | | 2 things - one: Anything on your record can come back to kick you in the ass. My bro had a little pot charge(he had like a gram)in some po dunk dry county in Tennesse. Many years later he's getting hassled going into Canada because he had a "narcotics" offense on his record. He also got hassled going into Japan. So, even a lame trespass charge can come back to haunt you.
Concerning that Target - it constantly has vagrants and hobos in there and nearby. So, I bet they keep a good eye on it. Plus, it's not exactly in a nice part of town. You probably should've done a look see around the place first but either way you probably tripped an alarm so you were screwed anyways. Yeah, the paint can screws you. I'd throw that guy under the bus and let him take the rap.
I personally would pay a lawyer a ton of cash and hope that it gets reduced to a mischeif charge or something. A trespass and vandalism charge sucks.
RSE
Canadian Rhian
Centennial, CO |
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Luna
location:
Hollywood, CA
Gender: Female
I am the terror that faps in the night
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 37 on 6/9/2010 8:38 PM >
| | | | Wow. Of all the explorations to get busted on, you get busted at a freakin' Target. TARGET. I've worked there! There's nothing to see! Couldn't you have gone to the Super Target up the road during business hours and "accidentally" walked into employee areas? Shit, there's a ton of service corridors to "UER" at that mall too.
Also, for the record, Lakewood (ooh and Arvada) PD are a fistful of assholes. I'm not kidding. They like to think they're fucking Columbo or something any time they're writing tickets/running IDs. They get this greasy shine in their eyes and you can see how they're praying to god with all their might that you're a terrorist and they get to shoot you in the face.
| well, the thing is, there were no no trespassing signs, no cameras, and there waasn't even a fence, and the loading docks werent locked. |
In the state of Colorado, its trespassing even if there is a lack of signage, etc.
Post by FFEMT5034
I have found that a lot of the allegation of police abuse (such as property confiscation) are simply misunderstood acts of leniency on the part of the officer. |
Having talked to many cops, I find that a lot of the allegation of police abuse goes under-reported, and further, are more than likely true (to some degree). A lot of cops have this entitlement complex that if they catch you doing something, or maybe doing something, they get to smack you around with their under-sized dicks until you agree to suck them off and give them an ego-gasm. Some cops actually do their job as they're supposed to. Some are just bullies who want to get paid to bully and intimidate people.
Dude, in the future, skip the lame explores, leave the assholes at home, and no matter what cops say (in person and in forums) they are NOT here to help you. As soon as they start asking you to help them fuck you over, that's when you know. If they WERE going to help you/let you off easy, they would have done that pretty early on. You can be polite and respectful, without bending over, and lubing yourself up for them.
Also, get a lawyer. I'm serious. Public defender, whatever. Lawyer up. The courts in Colorado are fond of preying on people without representation.
[last edit 6/9/2010 8:40 PM by Luna - edited 1 times]
Casual mysterious. |
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KalWin
location:
Longmont, CO
Gender: Female
| | | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 38 on 6/10/2010 1:26 AM >
| | | | Posted by Luna
Wow. Of all the explorations to get busted on, you get busted at a freakin' Target. TARGET. I've worked there! There's nothing to see! Couldn't you have gone to the Super Target up the road during business hours and "accidentally" walked into employee areas? Shit, there's a ton of service corridors to "UER" at that mall too.
Also, for the record, Lakewood (ooh and Arvada) PD are a fistful of assholes. I'm not kidding. They like to think they're fucking Columbo or something any time they're writing tickets/running IDs. They get this greasy shine in their eyes and you can see how they're praying to god with all their might that you're a terrorist and they get to shoot you in the face.
In the state of Colorado, its trespassing even if there is a lack of signage, etc.
Having talked to many cops, I find that a lot of the allegation of police abuse goes under-reported, and further, are more than likely true (to some degree). A lot of cops have this entitlement complex that if they catch you doing something, or maybe doing something, they get to smack you around with their under-sized dicks until you agree to suck them off and give them an ego-gasm. Some cops actually do their job as they're supposed to. Some are just bullies who want to get paid to bully and intimidate people.
Dude, in the future, skip the lame explores, leave the assholes at home, and no matter what cops say (in person and in forums) they are NOT here to help you. As soon as they start asking you to help them fuck you over, that's when you know. If they WERE going to help you/let you off easy, they would have done that pretty early on. You can be polite and respectful, without bending over, and lubing yourself up for them.
Also, get a lawyer. I'm serious. Public defender, whatever. Lawyer up. The courts in Colorado are fond of preying on people without representation.
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+1 Nicely written.
There are some really great cops out there... but as was said before... most really just suck. Just keep an eye out, and watch your back.
http://www.flickr....otos/21618753@N05/ |
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/-/ooligan
location:
Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: the encounter in that ended it all.
<Reply # 39 on 6/10/2010 2:35 AM >
| | | | Just as a percentage of people like Luna write-off most cops as being bad, there is a similar percentage of cops who will have the same stupid, broad opinion on people in their mid to late teens.
The world would be a better place without these fools, even though I like seeing Luna getting all worked-up.
/-/oolie
Posted by Luna
Also, for the record, Lakewood (ooh and Arvada) PD are a fistful of assholes. I'm not kidding. They like to think they're fucking Columbo or something any time they're writing tickets/running IDs. They get this greasy shine in their eyes and you can see how they're praying to god with all their might that you're a terrorist and they get to shoot you in the face.
In the state of Colorado, its trespassing even if there is a lack of signage, etc.
Having talked to many cops, I find that a lot of the allegation of police abuse goes under-reported, and further, are more than likely true (to some degree). A lot of cops have this entitlement complex that if they catch you doing something, or maybe doing something, they get to smack you around with their under-sized dicks until you agree to suck them off and give them an ego-gasm. Some cops actually do their job as they're supposed to. Some are just bullies who want to get paid to bully and intimidate people.
Dude, in the future, skip the lame explores, leave the assholes at home, and no matter what cops say (in person and in forums) they are NOT here to help you. As soon as they start asking you to help them fuck you over, that's when you know. If they WERE going to help you/let you off easy, they would have done that pretty early on. You can be polite and respectful, without bending over, and lubing yourself up for them.
Also, get a lawyer. I'm serious. Public defender, whatever. Lawyer up. The courts in Colorado are fond of preying on people without representation.
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There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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Ethics