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JimBoylan
   
location:
SouthEast Pennsylvania, U. S. of A.
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 40 on 4/22/2005 10:08 PM >
|  | | | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania has small square "man holes",
less than 9 inches square, labeled "Survey Bureau". I
think that you will find "bench marks" under the covers,
possibly City instead of Federal.
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Chainsaw
 
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 41 on 4/22/2005 10:42 PM >
| | | | A lot of geo-cachers are hard core into the benchmarks - check out this site - everything you need to identify and find benchmarks.
http://www.geocaching.com/mark/
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Agent Skelly
  
Web Sheriff
location:
Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  |  | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 42 on 4/23/2005 5:00 AM >
| | | | Would those international boundary marker stone things count?
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 43 on 4/25/2005 10:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chainsaw
A lot of geo-cachers are hard core into the benchmarks - check out this site - everything you need to identify and find benchmarks.
http://www.geocaching.com/mark/
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I'm a hard core benchmark hunter—although I'm in it for the experiences and not the numbers. I got my start through the Geocaching web site, and now I recover (find and report on) these marks for both NGS and USGS. You can find lots of information on benchmarks at my website: http://surveymarks.planetzhanna.com/.
I've just joined this UE community and was excited to see benchmarks mentioned here. I can't wait to explore the rest of the site. I love the stories and photographs I've seen so far.
~Zhanna
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Bratchny
location:
New York City
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 44 on 4/25/2005 10:39 PM >
| | | | I found this in Doodletown, an abandoned town in Bear Mountain State park.
I knew what it was thanks to this thread!
Bryan |
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scabskate
location:
Marriottsville, Maryland
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 45 on 4/30/2005 5:44 PM >
| | | | Ive seen a few of these things before, but only on trails or at overlooks
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sarahh
location:
ohio
Gender: Female
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 46 on 5/3/2005 2:22 AM >
| | | | how would government officials find out if someone stole one?
i dont really see them going to a lot of effort to recover one
but you never know with the government these days
The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one. -Adolf Hilter |
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 47 on 5/3/2005 11:47 PM >
| | | | Hi Sarah,
I report all survey marks that I find, whether they're in good or poor condition, vandalized, or missing. The chance of anyone who actually cares catching someone in the act of stealing a bench mark is very low (but please don't do it!) There is a warning of a $250 fine stamped on many of the bench mark disks; it's just a nominal fine today, but was significant in the 1930s when many of these marks were set. A stolen disk will not be reset, even if the whole disk or part of it is found nearby. If a mark is needed in the same area, surveyors will set a new one close by, at a significant expense.
Many different agencies set survey mark disks, from local property surveyors and road crews all the way to the federal government. The disks set by the National Geodetic Survey, in particular, were instrumental in the building of this country—elevation lines for roads and bridges, all the Interstate highways, dams, flood projects, tidal measurements, etc. must all be tied into these survey marks of very high accuracy. Maps are drawn based on the elevations and locations of these points, as well. Even the structures we like to explore depend on the accurate elevations established at these points. Even though the advent of GPS has greatly changed surveying methods, bench mark disks are still being set—and the older ones are truly a national treasure! 
~Zhanna
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Bratchny
location:
New York City
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 48 on 5/4/2005 4:10 AM >
| | | | Posted by Zhanna
bench mark disks are still being set—and the older ones are truly a national treasure!
~Zhanna
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Good stuff...I didn't realize they were that extensively used - I mean, they're cool, but I didn't realize they were so important. Now I feel a little bit cooler having found one...
What do you mean that you report them - to who??
Bryan |
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 49 on 5/5/2005 5:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bratchny
What do you mean that you report them - to who??
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Hi Bryan,
I report the marks to whichever agency lists them—most often NGS, but
occasionally USGS and PennDOT. The NGS database
(http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl) is pretty much
the standard for high-accuracy marks and most professional surveyors
probably refer to it at least once every day. Here's an example of a mark
I've worked on, just so you can see what kinds of data they store: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=ly1179.
If you've found a mark that's listed in the database, you can update that mark's
datasheet by filling out the "submit recovery" form. NGS accepts data
from the public, but you have to be careful and be very sure of what
you're doing. USGS and PennDOT (and other local agencies) will accept
written or e-mailed recovery notes, but don't accept submissions via the
web at this time.
I have lots more information about this. If you're interested, PM or
e-mail me!
Zhanna
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Bratchny
location:
New York City
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 50 on 5/5/2005 5:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by Zhanna
Hi Bryan,
I report the marks to whichever agency lists them—most often NGS, but
occasionally USGS and PennDOT. The NGS database
(http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl) is pretty much
the standard for high-accuracy marks and most professional surveyors
probably refer to it at least once every day. Here's an example of a mark
I've worked on, just so you can see what kinds of data they store: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=ly1179.
If you've found a mark that's listed in the database, you can update that mark's
datasheet by filling out the "submit recovery" form. NGS accepts data
from the public, but you have to be careful and be very sure of what
you're doing. USGS and PennDOT (and other local agencies) will accept
written or e-mailed recovery notes, but don't accept submissions via the
web at this time.
I have lots more information about this. If you're interested, PM or
e-mail me!
Zhanna
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It's really neat, but I'm not having any luck locating the mark that I found (the image is above). It's something though how they have it all mapped out where they are...
Bryan |
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duck219
| | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 51 on 5/5/2005 1:33 PM >
| | | | I agree with Zhanna, as I am a civil engineer and surveyor and am involved is using benchmarks to tie everything in. They are a valuable resource, and it is very frustrating when you find one on a map and go to look for it and its not there!
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 52 on 5/6/2005 2:13 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bratchny
It's really neat, but I'm not having any luck locating the mark that I found (the image is above).
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I can't find that one either, but it's not really surprising because it appears to be a county highway marker (crappy monitor at work ... I can't read the disk all that well). Most of those types of marks won't be found in the NGS database simply because it wasn't time- or cost-effective to survey them to NGS standards, or because the project was limited in scope and was just never submitted to NGS for consideration.
In fact, several of the marks depicted in this thread are city or county monuments that you'll have trouble finding documentation for, especially online (although some cities are gradually bringing this data online). If you have a particular interest in one of these marks, you'll probably have to talk to your local surveyors' office or department of transportation.
I noticed that MDuitsman's mark is listed by NGS (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=bn0699) as is MacGyver's (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=pp2569).
Nice finds, all!
~Zhanna
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 53 on 5/6/2005 2:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by duck219
They are a valuable resource, and it is very frustrating when you find one on a map and go to look for it and its not there!
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Comments like this validate that the recreational activity I'm spending much of my time on actually serves some useful purpose, too. Hopefully, by providing up-to-date reports on the marks I find (or fail to find), I'm helping engineers and surveyors make easier decisions about which marks are good candidates and which to avoid. The entire experience of researching and tracking down these marks is very rewarding, and it's even more of an incentive when I hear that my efforts have really saved someone time and trouble down the road.
~Zhanna
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tick
location:
Abingdon, VA
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 54 on 5/21/2005 12:18 AM >
|  | | | USGS gaging station survey tablets:
(legally obtained of course)
Every stream gage has three or more reference marks, used to establish and verify the elevation of the gage. Usually bolts in cement or squares chiseled in bridge wing walls are used - it's uncommon to find a tablet like these in use (at least in Virginia).
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nobody
location:
VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male
5:55 is a state of mind
| | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 55 on 5/21/2005 2:37 AM >
|  | | | I,m sorry I didn't have time to read the whole thread, this is really cool, do they have them in Canada? I have never seen one.
Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions |
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Freak
location:
Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 56 on 5/22/2005 4:52 AM >
| | | | On an island near me there's supposed to be an "Astronomical Station" that nearby benchmarks would be based on. It appears on old 1905 and 1914 maps, but not newer maps. I've checked the area and can't find it, but it may be under tree roots or moss after almost 100 years.
Recently some surveyors came through this are and marked out a lot of national forest/state forest boundary lines. They cut base lines through the forest and placed benchmarks at the corners, as well as putting up metal signs marking the national forest. Hunters use the trails a lot, and someone apparently got upset and ripped down or bent a lot of the signs.
Another interesting thing to look for are "Bearing Trees", usually two near an important benchmark that are blazed and have small metal placards giving bearing and distance to the mark. I'll get a picture of one when I have time.
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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Fallen_Knight
location:
vancouver BC
| | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 57 on 5/22/2005 9:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by MDuitsman
1. Doing so is a serious federal offense (definitely in the U.S., but probably in Canada too) for which you will have both law enforcement AND the military after you.
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maybe its just me, but the markers themselves state "250$ fine or imprisonment" so somehow i don't beleive its that serious of offence...
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GotPaisley!
location:
Lost.
Gender: Female
Exploring Gypsy!
| | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 58 on 5/22/2005 11:02 PM >
| | | | We do Geocaching & sometimes do the benchmark caches. I didn't realize how many people go in search of finding benchmarks. I thought I was cool but we mostly stick to the Geocaching thing.
There must be quite a few things a hot bath won't cure, but I don't know any of them.
~Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar
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Zhanna
location:
Northeastern Pennsylvania
| | | Re: Things NOT to disturb- Benchmarks
<Reply # 59 on 5/23/2005 7:04 PM >
| | | | Posted by Fallen_Knight
maybe its just me, but the markers themselves state "250$ fine or imprisonment" so somehow i don't beleive its that serious of offence...
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Seventy to eighty years ago when many of these marks were set, that amount was much more significant than it is today. No, it's not likely that law enforcement will spend much time tracking down bench mark vandals these days. But missing or vandalized survey markers can cost surveyors and scientists who need to use the marks plenty of money, time and trouble.
~Zhanna
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