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 agent-x
    
Noble Donor
 |  | Re: banned member
<Reply # 20 on 5/6/2004 1:13 PM >
|  | | | sorry AV, but you were wrong to ban Kn0wledge. It's very obvious that your personal dislike for the guy influenced your decision. But ultimately it's your site and you're welcome to run it how you like.
[5/6/2004 2:24:12 AM] <Avatar-X> anyway, knowledge, i don't care to argue with you because you are a moron and can't make a valid point to save your life
[5/6/2004 2:25:35 AM] <Avatar-X> knowledge, i proved using dictionary definitions that what you said was racist
[5/6/2004 2:25:41 AM] <Avatar-X> if you're too stupid to see that, it'sn ot my problem
[5/6/2004 2:28:52 AM] <Avatar-X> in fact you're not really allowed to insult others at all
[5/6/2004 2:30:14 AM] <Avatar-X> "...You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy..."
[5/6/2004 2:30:38 AM] <Avatar-X> note "hateful"
[5/6/2004 2:32:17 AM] <Avatar-X> and besides, knowledge, you're an asshole. i don't blame mark for insulting you
[5/6/2004 2:32:28 AM] <kn0wledge> you're an asshole too, frankly
[5/6/2004 2:32:38 AM] <Avatar-X> yeah, but i'm the asshole with my finger on the button
[5/6/2004 2:33:19 AM] <Avatar-X> i'm here to keep this forum together, and you're getting in the way of that
[5/6/2004 2:33:28 AM] <kn0wledge> i am? how so.
[5/6/2004 2:33:59 AM] <Avatar-X> you harrass the members, you post inflammatory posts, you piss everyone off, you post hateful things in this chat
[5/6/2004 2:34:07 AM] <kn0wledge> i harassed nobody
[5/6/2004 2:34:10 AM] <Avatar-X> you also harrass me with cheap threats
[5/6/2004 2:34:38 AM] <kn0wledge> my posts aren't imflammatory, they are as to-the-point as i can possibly make them
[5/6/2004 2:34:53 AM] <Avatar-X> allow me to quote from a post by one of the mods in the admin board re: you
[5/6/2004 2:34:56 AM] <Avatar-X> "This guy has been pissing me off a lot. Is it Intalex again or something? Has anyone else noticed that this guy`s a jerk? "
[5/6/2004 2:35:04 AM] <kn0wledge> yea, i know all about that thread
[5/6/2004 2:35:15 AM] <Avatar-X> oh really
[5/6/2004 2:35:22 AM] <kn0wledge> yea really
[5/6/2004 2:35:31 AM] <Avatar-X> i'm sure you do
[5/6/2004 2:36:01 AM] <kn0wledge> i also know that a bunch of your mods defended me, much to the chagrin of you and a couple of others.,
[5/6/2004 2:36:35 AM] <Avatar-X> actually
[5/6/2004 2:36:43 AM] <Avatar-X> the only one who defended you is MacGyvr
[5/6/2004 2:38:00 AM] <Avatar-X> anyway knowledge, your days are numbered
[5/6/2004 2:41:26 AM] <Avatar-X> you know what guys
[5/6/2004 2:41:30 AM] <Avatar-X> i'm sick of this bullshit
[5/6/2004 2:41:56 AM] <Avatar-X> knowledge: you're gone. why? because you broke some rules, but also because i don't like you, and this is my site. fuck off.
[5/6/2004 2:43:26 AM] <Avatar-X> as much as i'd love to hear your script-kiddie ass whine on some more, kn0wledge, it's time for you to go. I suggest you get a clue.
[5/6/2004 2:43:28 AM] <Avatar-X> /kick kn0wledge
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Avatar-X
    
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| |  | Re: banned member
<Reply # 21 on 5/6/2004 1:15 PM >
| | | | Sorry, but I was not wrong to ban him. He made at least 3 racist statements in that chat. This is enough ground to ban someone on it's own. The fact that I don't like him doesn't really matter.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Doc Lightning
I fucking wish....
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 22 on 5/6/2004 1:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
As for the "childishness" comments -- I made it quite clear that racism is not tolerated on this board. I also made it very clear that I am not the only one who has a problem with kn0wledge. |
Regardless of whether you have a problem with him or not, your personal opinion should have no bearing on your decision, which is what you did when you said:
While I may have used the "this is my site" excuse as a final reason to ban kn0wledge, |
That's the final reason for banning him? Because you could? That's a really poor excuse.
keep in mind that I try to do what is best for everyone, and frankly, having racist people around is not.
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You don't do what is best for everyone, you've already admitted that "this is my site and I'll do what I like".
[last edit 5/6/2004 1:18 PM by Doc Lightning - edited 1 times]
Rach thu agus a' sgaoil am leathar de bhur paithar |
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Doc Lightning
I fucking wish....
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 23 on 5/6/2004 1:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Sorry, but I was not wrong to ban him. He made at least 3 racist statements in that chat. This is enough ground to ban someone on it's own. The fact that I don't like him doesn't really matter.
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It matters a lot, because it influenced your decision.
Rach thu agus a' sgaoil am leathar de bhur paithar |
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agent-x
Noble Donor
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 24 on 5/6/2004 1:20 PM >
| | | | the quotes i took from the forum i found all to be racist, perhaps not if we go by your strict dictionary definitions, but racist nonetheless. it wasn't meant to be a complaint about any of them, but rather to highlight the double standards that persist on this forum.
i don't think kn0wledge is at odds with everyone on this board. the fact he argued the point with you led to your banning him. maybe i should shut up now in case i get banned too?
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 25 on 5/6/2004 1:20 PM >
| | | | for fucks sake, do I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over?
KNOWLEDGE USED THREE RACIAL SLURS IN THE CHAT (to which I posted the logs). He insinuated that all german people are aryan, which offends me greatly. It's essentially the same as saying that "all black people are niggers". It's a very racial statement. If you don't know what aryan means I suggest you check a dictionary.
I banned him for racism. I was willing to give him one more chance, which I made clear at the top of the chat, but he was unwilling to accept he had made a mistake. What I meant by "final reason" is not "the only reason for banning him" but rather "the reason to finally get rid of him". As in, he was 96% on the way to being banned, and what pushed the last 4% was because he was a dick in the chat to me and I don't like him.
I'd like to see how long you keep someone on your forums if they came up to you and started insulting you.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 26 on 5/6/2004 1:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by agent-x
the quotes i took from the forum i found all to be racist, perhaps not if we go by your strict dictionary definitions, but racist nonetheless. it wasn't meant to be a complaint about any of them, but rather to highlight the double standards that persist on this forum.
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I don't read every single post on this forum. Our rules are enforced by the moderators, but also by the "user complaint system" -- If a user is offended, they complain, and an administrator or moderator investigates.
The fact that nothing has been done about your examples does not indicate a double standard, it indicates simply that there have been no complaints or other problems.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Doc Lightning
I fucking wish....
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 27 on 5/6/2004 1:27 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
for fucks sake, do I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over? |
no need to swear.......
KNOWLEDGE USED THREE RACIAL SLURS IN THE CHAT (to which I posted the logs). |
In his defence I would say he didn't consider them racist. Therefore, apologising would be admitting that he was. Which he wasn't prepared to do. I wouldn't apologise for something I didn't think I had done either.
Remember, he didn't like you. You rub him up the wrong way. Therefore, he fought back. As I would have done.
| If you don't know what aryan means I suggest you check a dictionary. |
jeez, I wish there was a rule about being patronising.
| What I meant by "final reason" is not "the only reason for banning him" but rather "the reason to finally get rid of him". As in, he was 96% on the way to being banned, and what pushed the last 4% was because he was a dick in the chat to me and I don't like him. |
That is not, and never should be, a good "final reason" for anything.
I'd like to see how long you keep someone on your forums if they came up to you and started insulting you.
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I do and they have. I gave them a warning. But I know the difference between a genuine insult and someone trying to wind me up. You don't seem to be able to do that.
So you only react if people complain? Okay, you called know stupid, a moron and an asshole. I'm complaining. Seems you were as bad with the insults as he was.
Rach thu agus a' sgaoil am leathar de bhur paithar |
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agent-x
Noble Donor
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 28 on 5/6/2004 1:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I'd like to see how long you keep someone on your forums if they came up to you and started insulting you.
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i've been running a forum on my site for about 3 years, and i don't think i've ever banned anyone for anything. the level of abuse aimed at myself and the other users is far higher than you would obviously tolerate, yet it really doesn't bother me at all. i very rarely (like probably about 2 or 3 times max) delete any posts from it.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 29 on 5/6/2004 1:33 PM >
| | | | I never insulted his race or country.
It doesn't matter whether or not Knowledge considers something racist -- what matters is that I, and everyone else in the chat, did. In fact it was Panic who first mentioned it. Also, the dictionary proves quite clearly that it is racist.
Not liking someone is a fine reason. I code, update, and maintain this website at my own expense and out of my own pocket, save the help of some generous people who have donated. This website is not a public service, there is no "right" to be here. If I feel someone should not be here, and there is enough justification, that person is gone.
If you don't like that, that's fine. You can hang out on a "free" board full of ads where the administration doesn't give a shit about the members. But here, I care about my members and I do what is best for all of them, not what is best for some racist guy in scotland.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 30 on 5/6/2004 1:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by agent-x
i've been running a forum on my site for about 3 years, and i don't think i've ever banned anyone for anything. the level of abuse aimed at myself and the other users is far higher than you would obviously tolerate, yet it really doesn't bother me at all. i very rarely (like probably about 2 or 3 times max) delete any posts from it.
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This forum has 4500 members. I guarantee you that the level of shit here is way higher than on your forum. Sorry, but "anarchy" (no moderation, no administration, no banning) will not work on a forum this large.
You'll note (www.uer.ca/forum_banlist.asp) that every member who has been banned was for a pretty damn good reason.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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Capone
Location: London, Ontario
Gender: Male
UEL
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 31 on 5/6/2004 1:38 PM >
| | | | I agree (to a certain extent) with both Av's and kn0wledge's sides of this. I can see why you banned him for posting that type of shit and denying it and etc. but at the same time, I also hold the opinion that a good part of the reason he was banned was because you just plain didn't him, complaints from other users not withstanding.
By these new rules, should I not be banned for being a "homophobic insecure right-wing prick" (and etc.) in the gay-pride star thread? I'm sure I got some complaints because quite a few people seemed to take grave offense with me agreeing with kn0wledge.
I'm by no means advocatating that you should ban me  But in order for these rules (more specifically the anti-troll rules) to work you can't let some things go and not others, with fuzzy distinctions as to what exactly is and is not allowed. Or be coming down hard on some users and not others because you personally don't like them. Take agent-x's examples, all of those could be considered, to various extents; offensive, unwelcoming, racist, and/or nationalist.
Anyway, I'll agree that justice was served in this case, although I think you were far from objective about it.
So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... |
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Doc Lightning
I fucking wish....
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 32 on 5/6/2004 1:40 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I never insulted his race or country.
It doesn't matter whether or not Knowledge considers something racist -- what matters is that I, and everyone else in the chat, did. In fact it was Panic who first mentioned it. Also, the dictionary proves quite clearly that it is racist. |
the dictionary definition of aerodynamic proves that bumblebees cannot fly. What does that prove?
| Not liking someone is a fine reason. I code, update, and maintain this website at my own expense and out of my own pocket, save the help of some generous people who have donated. This website is not a public service, there is no "right" to be here. If I feel someone should not be here, and there is enough justification, that person is gone. |
What do you want, a medal? If that's the case, charge a fee to join. If it's free to join then you shouldn't complain about the people who DO join. Which is what you're doing.
If you don't like that, that's fine. You can hang out on a "free" board full of ads where the administration doesn't give a shit about the members. But here, I care about my members and I do what is best for all of them, not what is best for some racist guy in scotland.
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but do you do what is best for all of them? Suggesting that new members write an essay doesn't seem to me to be doing what is "best" for them.
But then that's another subject entirely.
Also "I never insulted his race or his country". doesn't matter. You used "hateful" remarks, which is not allowed under the rules YOU quoted.
Rach thu agus a' sgaoil am leathar de bhur paithar |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 33 on 5/6/2004 1:41 PM >
| | | | I've received no complaints about you, Capone, and as I've already said, this issue has nothing to do with the Troll/Flame rules (they are not implemented, and may not be).
huskies - such fluff. |
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Capone
Location: London, Ontario
Gender: Male
UEL
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 34 on 5/6/2004 1:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I've received no complaints about you, Capone, and as I've already said, this issue has nothing to do with the Troll/Flame rules (they are not implemented, and may not be).
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Well the no complaints is a surprise... Anyway forgive the majority of that post, I haven't been keeping up with the progression of the anti-trolling rules. On that note though, (and slightly off topic) I'm all for them, and if they are to be implemented then what I said above stands as my opinion (and what I'm sure will be/is the general consensus of the board).
So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 35 on 5/6/2004 1:46 PM >
| | | | What the hell? I've already answered all of these things. Please stop asking me the same questions again. But I'll answer them once more.
Posted by dr_lightning
the dictionary definition of aerodynamic proves that bumblebees cannot fly. What does that prove?
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What does this have to do with anything? What a stupid thing to say.
What do you want, a medal? If that's the case, charge a fee to join. If it's free to join then you shouldn't complain about the people who DO join. Which is what you're doing.
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Actually, i'm not complaining about people who join. I'm complaining about people who break the rules, aggravate members, and cause problems. Since it's free to join, I have no reason to want to keep these people around.
but do you do what is best for all of them? Suggesting that new members write an essay doesn't seem to me to be doing what is "best" for them.
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Actually, I didn't suggest the essay, and I also don't like the idea of an essay. Please stop attributing things to me that weren't mine.
Also "I never insulted his race or his country". doesn't matter. You used "hateful" remarks, which is not allowed under the rules YOU quoted.
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Calling people assholes and stuff isn't really a big deal. The term hateful here is meant to refer to hate in terms of racism, nationalism, etc. Hating people by their religion or race or sexual orientation. Hating people because they piss everyone off and cause problems is allowed.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Doc Lightning
I fucking wish....
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 36 on 5/6/2004 1:49 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Calling people assholes and stuff isn't really a big deal. The term hateful here is meant to refer to hate in terms of racism, nationalism, etc. Hating people by their religion or race or sexual orientation. Hating people because they piss everyone off and cause problems is allowed.
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I consider it a big deal. I also consider "hateful" to mean insulting to anyone in any way. Which you were. Regardless of whether that was the reason you hated kn0wledge (and we're getting closer to the truth there) you should have kept it to yourself. As administrator you should act impartially, and I feel you failed to do that.
I don't like people at my place of work, but I keep it to myself for the good of my job. Can you do the same?
One more thing: if the comments had been posted by someone you had met and liked, they would have been treated slightly less harshly. Yes or no?
Rach thu agus a' sgaoil am leathar de bhur paithar |
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agent-x
Noble Donor
| | Re: banned member
<Reply # 37 on 5/6/2004 1:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Not liking someone is a fine reason. I code, update, and maintain this website at my own expense and out of my own pocket, save the help of some generous people who have donated. This website is not a public service, there is no "right" to be here. If I feel someone should not be here, and there is enough justification, that person is gone.
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sure, like i say, it's your site, you can run it exactly how you like.
Posted by Avatar-X
If you don't like that, that's fine. You can hang out on a "free" board full of ads where the administration doesn't give a shit about the members. But here, I care about my members and I do what is best for all of them, not what is best for some racist guy in scotland.
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sorry, but Kn0wledge isn't a racist guy, he may just have used some ill-advised comments that could be construed as racist.
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Boy 4 Pele
Designery Guy!
Location: West-Side GTA, Baby!
The way it's ended up.
| |  | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 38 on 5/6/2004 1:51 PM >
| | | | Any form of racism in a forum such as this is unacceptable.
It should be delt with swiftly, and that's what Av did. Kudos.
Make sure to order your UE Gear in time for OffPro! http://members.allstream.net/~am_pm/index.html
This makes "Driving Miss Daisy" look like "Bullitt".
Later.
B4P |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: banned member
<Reply # 39 on 5/6/2004 1:54 PM >
| | | | Not really, no. If someone else had used the same racial slurs, I'd have warned them immediatly and told them not to do it again. (which i did with knowledge) At this point, a rational person would have said "ok av" (it's happened before, so don't tell me otherwise) and that would have been that.
I really don't care if knowledge is racist or not -- he used racist comments. That's not allowed.
On a side note -- has anyone here noticed that the only people who complain about how I run this site are the ones that cause problems? 99% of this community is pretty happy here, with our fair moderators, clear and easy to understand rules, and open discussions regarding policy. But I guess some people just have to cause problems.
huskies - such fluff. |
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