UER Store sweet UER decals: Activity 613 online Server Time: 2024-05-14 19:35:03 Visit Infiltration Access All Areas AvBrand

1 2   UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Ethics Question.... (Viewed 832 times) Jonno23  Location: Phoenix, Az, Sector zz9 Plural Z Alpha Gender: Male This space for rent  |  Ethics Question.... < on 8/16/2010 10:39 AM >   So I was out this weekend, and ran into another explorer out for a pre dusk assault. I heard him coming cause he had his kid in tow with him. His daughter was about 10, maybe a little younger. The place wasnt too sketchy, but it has its places in the building, random holes in the upper floors and stairs with no railings, that type of thing. He didn't seem to be paying too much attention though as she just ran around and into various rooms while he took pics. I talked to the guy for a little while and he told me that he brings her on lots of explorations 'cause he thinks the cops are less likely to arrest him for trespassing, or think he was up to something if he has his daughter out with him. It kind of bugged me a little. Am I just being weird on this one, or what? Blah Blah Blah. Shut up and open the damn door. "It's ok Officer, I watch a lot of cop shows on tv, so i am practically one of you guys." - sadly, that didn't work. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonno23/ All my photos suck. PhotoSeeker  Location: Sudbury Gender: Male MikeOnline  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 1 on 8/16/2010 10:45 AM >   I've always taken my daughter with me. She's 16 now, and still my partner in "crime". Not for the same motive as him, mind you... just something we've always enjoyed doing together. It's a question of how they've been brought up, their personality etc. If this is his motive, however, he ought to consider how else it can be seen, an older man taking a very young girl into an abandoned building with a camera. 'Cause, honestly, that's the first angle the cops are gonna see it from. Lots of Urban Exploration goodness at https://urbexobsession.com Jonno23  Location: Phoenix, Az, Sector zz9 Plural Z Alpha Gender: Male This space for rent  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 2 on 8/16/2010 11:01 AM >   See? That's kind of what I was thinking at first. I have taken my daughter on a couple explores, but only to ones I have been to before and I have no safety issues with, or concerns of jail time. To use her for the sole purpose of keeping the cops from hassling you, and to not even keep an eye on her..... Sketchy. Sketchy indeed. Blah Blah Blah. Shut up and open the damn door. "It's ok Officer, I watch a lot of cop shows on tv, so i am practically one of you guys." - sadly, that didn't work. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonno23/ All my photos suck. consecrated  Location: Connecticut Gender: Male Æthereal  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 3 on 8/16/2010 11:03 AM >   That's some pretty crappy reasoning... I'd accept "she's getting into exploring" or "just trying to teach here a few things" while maintaining a safe level of parental observation and supervision. While the maturity level of some 10y/o surpasses that of many adults, generally speaking, the self-awareness of a 10y/o is nearly non-existent. Walking around unsupervised could possibly result in getting hurt. I'm all for taking our kids, just "parent" them while they are with you. I can only comment on the statement he made as far as why his daughter was with him since I wasn't there to comment otherwise. That's a pretty lame reason in my opinion. If anything, I would think an opposite and consequently more harsh response would be more likely from the police. Can't that be considered child endangerment or some shit if they want to push the issue? Mutt  Moderator Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Support your local Funeral Director ----- Drop Dead!  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 4 on 8/16/2010 11:25 AM >   I wouldn't be in the same abandonment as him and his child lest you end up being associated with him in a police bust of some kind. You too could be charged with some form child endangerment charge, possibly through the local police or worse, a children's aid organization. He would most likely lose his rights as a custodial parent if CAS were to get wind of it. Stay safe, leave the kids out of it. I also don't explore with anyone under the age of majority for the same reasons. All men are cremated equal. MutantMandias  Perverse and Often Baffling Location: Atlanta, GA Gender: Male Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 5 on 8/16/2010 3:37 PM >   Posted by Jonno23 See? That's kind of what I was thinking at first. I have taken my daughter on a couple explores, but only to ones I have been to before and I have no safety issues with, or concerns of jail time. To use her for the sole purpose of keeping the cops from hassling you, and to not even keep an eye on her..... Sketchy. Sketchy indeed. Blah blah blah. I was raised running around in active, dangerous construction sites, and so were my nieces. I also grew up exploring abandoned houses and storm drains. I take my kids with me from time to time when exploring things that are not entirely safe, and I have made sure that they understand possible risks and know how to handle themselves. I know their personalities and their level of risk taking, and I trust them. That's generally what I require from most people that I explore with. Kids have to be taught not to run in to the street and to not put their cock on the stove. They can be taught other stuff too. Kids aren't necessarily useless idiots. Fuck, when I was a kid, you could easily kill yourself on standard playground equipment. It's like they were trying to weed out the weak ones. Spinning things that could snap your leg in half... bridges 20 feet off the ground, with just a couple of railings. The fun part was climbing out through the railings. We were left unattended and surrounded by medieval torture devices to work out the social contracts between bullies and faggots and queers and all of that fun stuff. So yeah, I take my kids. I take them so that we can be together... and because most any normal kid would want to do it... and because it is perfectly fucking normal... and I also recognize the fact that it will make things much easier if I do run into cops. And by much easier, I do not mean any of this nonsense: Posted by Mutt He would most likely lose his rights as a custodial parent if CAS were to get wind of it. Because that is dumb. And you know what? It has once or twice come up in conversation with some random dickhead about me taking my kids exploring. Do you know what I say to such random dickheads? Do I talk about the fact that I know my kids very well and that we have a mutual respect and understanding; do I wax eloquently about how I believe that some danger and risk are not only beneficial, but essential for healthy development? No, I simply tell random dickheads that I bring them with me 'cause I think the cops are less likely to arrest me for trespassing. mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being rcbif   |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 6 on 8/16/2010 3:41 PM >   Next time you see him ask him if he would rather be arrested, or arrested due to child endangerment because his daughter fell through a floor and broke her back. MutantMandias  Perverse and Often Baffling Location: Atlanta, GA Gender: Male Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 7 on 8/16/2010 4:04 PM >   Or better yet, kill and take his child, because you can do a better job. mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being don_corleyone  Location: F/RoX Gender: Male I have abandonment issues  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 8 on 8/16/2010 4:52 PM >   the only part about this thread that bothers me is that you went on a "pre-dusk assault". leave the gun. take the cannoli. Papadupulous  Location: Burlington, ON Gender: Male Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 9 on 8/16/2010 4:55 PM >   I'd say it's overall bad parenting. It's one thing if you know the place is safe, but bringing your daughter to a place you've never been just for the sake of not being arrested is a whole different story. I don't think it's ethically correct if the daughter doesn't like it. You shouldn't force a child to do things they don't like or don't understand. "Most people think time is a strict progression of chords to effect, when really it's more a big ball of timey wimey... stuff..." Gutter Monkey  Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: Male Tell me if this tickles  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 10 on 8/16/2010 4:58 PM >   Posted by Jonno23 It kind of bugged me a little. Am I just being weird on this one, or what? Naw, it's a valid question. If you suspect for some reason that the dude hasn't fully thought through the situation and wasn't aware that his kid was in danger then you can talk to him about it ("Uh, isn't it a little dangerous to bring a kid that young in here without full supervision?" would be a good opener) but even if he is being negligent there's not a whole lot you can do about it. I probably wouldn't take my hypothetical kid into an unsafe abandoned building with me but I'd also expect people to let me decide to raise little Gutter Monkey Jnr the way I wanted, and I try to let other people raise their kids the way they want to as well. You can have your own opinion but in the end it's his kid and his responsibility. It's also sometimes hard to tell whether a child has been raised to be self sufficient, conscientious of their surroundings and mature enough to take care of themselves, or whether they've been plunked down in front of the TV for years and have marshmallows for brains. Some teenagers are more mature than some middle aged people I know, others can accidentally poke their eyes out when they're eating their corn flakes. I also just realised that I wished my Dad had taken me on more adventures when I was 11. Posted by MutantMandias Kids have to be taught not to run in to the street and to not put their cock on the stove. I wish my parents had taught me this lesson, would've saved me a trip to the burns ward last July. Posted by Papadupulous You shouldn't force a child to do things they don't like or don't understand. You still haven't forgiven your mom for making you eat all those brussel sprouts, have you? [last edit 8/16/2010 4:59 PM by Gutter Monkey - edited 1 times] MutantMandias  Perverse and Often Baffling Location: Atlanta, GA Gender: Male Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 11 on 8/16/2010 5:36 PM >   Posted by Papadupulous I don't think it's ethically correct if the daughter doesn't like it. You shouldn't force a child to do things they don't like or don't understand. Don't have kids. Seriously. [last edit 8/16/2010 5:36 PM by MutantMandias - edited 1 times] mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being yokes  Location: Toronto Gender: Male I aim to misbehave  |  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 12 on 8/16/2010 5:44 PM >   Note to world: Children explore their environment without their parents. Showing them how to be safe = good thing. "Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel PhotoSeeker  Location: Sudbury Gender: Male MikeOnline  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 13 on 8/16/2010 6:11 PM >   Posted by yokes Note to world: Children explore their environment without their parents. Showing them how to be safe = good thing. Precisely! Lots of Urban Exploration goodness at https://urbexobsession.com Sceptic  Location: In the Dreams of a City that Never Sleeps Gender: Male 120  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 14 on 8/16/2010 6:28 PM >   I would think he would be in so much more trouble if he was to get arrested in a place like that with his daughter, The ACS are some hard asses "Instinctive forces influence the activity of consciousness. Whether that influence is for better or for worse depends upon the actual contents of the unconscious." ZenCanadian  Location: High Park, Toronto Gender: Male  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 15 on 8/16/2010 8:55 PM >   Showing a child how to be safe in an abandonment is a good thing, however letting them run around on their own is not a smart idea. Abandonments are not always as safe as we think they might be..buildings, floors, roofs and the like can collapse at any point and unless you are a structural engineer and do the right testing you won't know until it happens. I am all for taking my kids when I have them if they want to go and to make sure they are with me and not on their own. Using a child as a way to get out of being arrested is also not going to work..if a cop wants to arrest you he is going to, regardless of a child being present. Zen and the art of infiltration... http://www.flikr.com/photos/zenslens Zen is an uber explorer, a demi god of craning and purveyor of the finer things in life. yokes  Location: Toronto Gender: Male I aim to misbehave  |  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 16 on 8/16/2010 8:57 PM >   I guess it comes down, in part, to how much you actually like your kid. "Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel Explorer Zero   |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 17 on 8/16/2010 10:15 PM >   aw man I was itchin for an ethics debate, I knew an ethics debate and this is no ethics debate... yokes  Location: Toronto Gender: Male I aim to misbehave  |  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 18 on 8/16/2010 10:39 PM >   Are the kids taking only photographs and/or leaving only footprints? "Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel oldgrumpymark  Location: PA Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Ethics Question.... <Reply # 19 on 8/16/2010 10:47 PM >   Posted by don_corleyone the only part about this thread that bothers me is that you went on a "pre-dusk assault". yes, it should have been a "pre-dusk mission". [last edit 8/16/2010 10:52 PM by oldgrumpymark - edited 1 times] http://www.flickr....72157616293256893/ UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Ethics Question.... (Viewed 832 times) 1 2   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 140 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 741737965 pages have been generated.