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 your velouria
 
Location: charleston, sc
Gender: Male
 |  | Only in Detroit
< on 12/15/2008 5:50 PM >
|  | | | The sentiment is understandable, but damn.
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fiftyone_eggs
Location: jerzey
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 1 on 12/15/2008 7:09 PM >
| | | | this isn't new. i had relatives in the UAW back in the 80s when the car companies had separate (farther) lots for employees who drove foreign cars. local fairs etc. would routinely have an attraction where you could pay $1 to hit a honda with a sledgehammer. i think now that the big 3 are in dire straits again, this sentiment is returning.
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yokes
    
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
| |  | | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 2 on 12/15/2008 8:16 PM >
| | | | Sadly, the parking lots are empty because all of the domestic cars are broken down on the sides of the roads.
(i kid)
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
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Emma Peel
  
Location: Ahowah
Gender: Female
Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 3 on 12/15/2008 9:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by yokes
Sadly, the parking lots are empty because all of the domestic cars are broken down on the sides of the roads.
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Bah, ha ha.
(/me thinks fondly of her Toyota at the repair shop, hoping it is doing well)
I saw a story a few months back about how, in the US, domestic cars are more foreign-made than foreign cars, and vice-versa.
We have a Honda plant where I live, for instance.
[last edit 12/15/2008 9:15 PM by Emma Peel - edited 1 times]
Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. |
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yokes
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
| | | | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 4 on 12/15/2008 9:28 PM >
| | | | The signs these days might be more accurate to say "union built cars only".
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
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bash
Location: Wisconsin/ Milwaukee/ Menomonie
Gender: Male
light up the darkness
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 5 on 12/16/2008 12:10 AM >
| | | | I have to say, I have two friends that drive domestics, and another friend with a Honda, and I myself have a Mitsubishi and before that a Toyota. I can say that I haven't had half the problems that they have with their cars. If its not one thing, its another, imports ftw.
You cannot begin to live until you cease to just exist. |
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/-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 6 on 12/16/2008 4:26 AM >
| | | | Neanderthal morons!
The 'Big 3' auto plants having separate, usually more-distant & less maintained parking lots for workers exercising their right to own & operate "foreign" cars has gone on for decades, and shame on the auto plant management for allowing the god-damned unions to cause this to be done. In addition to having to park at a separate lot, there were often incidents of vandalism that'd occur for some reason in the foreign-car lots but not the American car lots. The union workers were so overly protective that they'd resort to violence simply because they knew they were too stupid & lazy to get a well-paying non-union job, should the company ever go under, so they did & still do whatever they have to in order to protect their extremely high-paying job & benefits plan.
Extending the exact-same union 'logic,' "foreign" workers at the plant should have had to use separate bathrooms & drinking fountains, too...
I lived in the Detroit area during the big "Buy American" campaign & my retort to the numerous auto worker, union-member friends (who'd admit privately how much they slacked off at work) was that "Buy American" is an OK philosophy, but it is superceded by the "American way" philosophy of the freedom to buy & use whatever vehicle you wanted to. And of course a big incentive for the workers themselves to "buy American" was the huge discounts they'd get on buying their employer's products.
However, keep in mind that SEIU is not an auto worker's union, it is Service Employees International Union, so I don't know that all SEIU property can get away with signs like that. SEIU members seem to mostly be the unskilled, menial-labor jobs like building custodians, hotel bellhops & maids, nursing home staff, etc. Important jobs, perhaps nice people, but NOT exactly the types of jobs sought out or filled by bright, well-educated people, hence their need to mass and collectively fight for job pay, benefits & security that really aren't deserved -- much the same way individuals form a street gang & get money & 'respect' that they don't deserve.
I assume that the discriminatory signs are posted at either some auto plant where SEIU workers do the building cleaning, or it's some SEIU union hall parking lot for a chapter where the guys work at a US auto factory.
As you can see, I don't like unions. They were an important, positive factor during the industrial revolution but for the past many decades in the USA they've had more of a negative impact on society than a positive one.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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Ram23
Location: Cincinnati, OH and/or Queens, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 7 on 12/16/2008 4:29 AM >
| | | | Posted by bash
I have to say, I have two friends that drive domestics, and another friend with a Honda, and I myself have a Mitsubishi and before that a Toyota. I can say that I haven't had half the problems that they have with their cars. If its not one thing, its another, imports ftw.
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I drive an American car (huge truck ftw) and have never had a single problem. My friend drives a Mitsubishi and has had everything possible go wrong - needed a new clutch, the electrical system went out completely, etc. He's spent thousands fixing the thing.
The only problem I have with my car is how overpayed the union workers that built it are, but that's another conversation for another place...
Cincinnati UE Photos: http://zfein.com/photography |
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Curious_George
Location: Cambridge
Gender: Male
Straight outta New Bedlam
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 8 on 12/16/2008 5:59 AM >
| | | | I have an 03 Grand Am with nearly 200,000km (124,000 miles) and the only work I have ever had to do on it was replace a front wheel bearing and radiator hose.
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Emma Peel
Location: Ahowah
Gender: Female
Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 9 on 12/16/2008 7:45 AM >
| | | | Posted by Curious_George
I have an 03 Grand Am with nearly 200,000km (124,000 miles) and the only work I have ever had to do on it was replace a front wheel bearing and radiator hose.
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My dad does, too! Closer to 200k miles though, I believe. Except... Apparantly, the rear struts are appearing in a place they shouldn't be. That car, though.... It has been through countless ditches, it was MY first POS-16-year-old-beat-the-shit-out-of-it car, a couple of deer, broken axles, loss of the exhaust manifold... you name it, and I probably practiced doing it in that car. .... Oh, and we replaced probably that same radiator hose. ;)
But these struts, though. They are apparantly the last straw.
In the end... I think it all depends on how you drive it. I beat that car into the ground for YEARS, but my dad has kept it alive, since. It wouldn't have had a chance with me, the way I used to drive.
*coughbutweallknowToyotasarebetterthananyothercarever*
Anyway, I'm with Hooligan's more tame remarks, in saying that requiring a separate lot seems a little discriminatory and makes it pretty easy to target and bully non-union workers.
Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. |
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Clockwork
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
I WILL KILL THIS MONKEY! I'M CRAZY!
| | | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 10 on 12/16/2008 4:36 PM >
| | | | I wonder what they'd think of my '98 Eagle Talon? Would they consider it an import or an American car? It's basically a late 90's Mitsubishi Eclipse with Eagle-exclusive front/rear bumpers and spoiler. There's even a Mitsubishi sticker in the engine compartment. It was made back when Chrysler and Mitsubishi were in cooperation (the Eagle brand was sold by Chrysler, even though Mitsubishi designed the cars). My Eagle Talon (as well as ALL Mitsubishi Eclipses) was built at Mitsubishi's "Diamond Star Motors" factory in Normal, Illinois. So it's a foreign-designed car built here in the USA by hard-working Americans. Sooo.... Which parking lot do you think they'd let me park my car in? Do I get called a "rice burner" or am I in support of American labor (even if I don't give two shits about Ford or GM).
As for Unions, they can eat shit and die (or some of them, at least). Unions are important as a means of protecting workers from the heartless tendencies of big business, and as long as a union is functioning within good reason and without corruption, I see no problem with them. I've been a member of two seperate unions in my working life, though, and they were both awful.
The first union I joined was while working as a produce manager in a Chicago grocery store. I was threatened and coerced into joining the union by two seperate union reps who basically wanted my union dues money and not much else. They threatened to garnish my wages to take their fees if I didn't join them, and then they'd stop me from getting raises and shit. I couldn't believe the gall of those fuckers. I'd never joined a union though, and I assumed it would be alright. So I joined. Suddenly I was subject to all their idiotic rules and seniority policies. They decided that because I had no seniority, I shouldn't be allowed to be a produce manager (they demanded I start as a bag boy instead, even though I'd been doing well as a produce manager since my hiring). They found some other union bozo who never did work and never worked many hours (he was lazy and actually preferred it that way) and gave him my job, essentially laying me off. So by joining the union, they stole my fucking job out from under me. They then offered me the job of being a bag boy for a substantial pay cut. I told them to fuck off, and moved back to Dubuque.
The second union I joined was working in a meat warehouse in East Dubuque. The union guaranteed us pay raises and shit, but they never actually worried about the workers. And the warehouse management was at odds with the union, so they acted like assholes to all the union workers. They also made us work ungodly hours in arctic conditions with no sleep and... garraraaaarghh.... never mind. Talking about that place will just get me pissed off again. The point I'm trying to make is that the union was secretly in the pocket of the warehouse, and took bribes in order to not fight the fact that we were being worked like slaves, and when we would lodge complaints against the company, the union would listen to us, laugh, and basically say they couldn't do shit for us. I don't know what my dues were paying for.
So yeah. Fuck unions.
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Curious_George
Location: Cambridge
Gender: Male
Straight outta New Bedlam
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 11 on 12/18/2008 1:27 AM >
| | | | Unions are impotent. The Steelworkers Union does nothing but takes nothing but my money and disregards my suggestions.
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mowthelawn
Location: last one out of michigan please turn off the lights
Gender: Male
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 12 on 12/18/2008 3:20 AM >
| | | | living in michigan all i hear around here is how we have to save the big 3 and how much the unions are giving up. what a bunch of crap. a neighbor was in the jobs bank for a couple years and all he did was paint curbs and street markers in town while drawing fourty bucks an hour not going into a chrysler job.
i have an 03 chevy heavy duty pickup with 160000 miles on it that has had only a new set of rear brakes and a set of fuel injectors. a great american truck built in flint but if you look close at the diesel engine it is made by mitsubishi.....
right next to it is an acura legend that has 125000 miles on it. i paid 2 grand for it a year ago and other than oil and filters and a can of refrigerant it has been perfect. it can sit for months and will start up after 3 seconds of cranking. japanese or americans both build some great cars and trucks and i am fine with driving either one of them, but no one is worth 60 or 70 bucks an hour to work on the line and build them, not to mention insane retirement and benefit packages. i have been flipped off by slack jawed uaw members in the acura and have had the same clown the very next day when driving my truck.
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LostintheWoods
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Gender: Male
I have sunk into the mire of the deep, where there is no foothold.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 13 on 12/18/2008 3:50 AM >
| | | | Posted by Emma Peel
I saw a story a few months back about how, in the US, domestic cars are more foreign-made than foreign cars, and vice-versa.
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There was a big hoo haw about Toyota entering the NASCAR Sprint Cup series last year, a lot of down home country fans were up in arms about the 'furriners' destroying their sport. As it turns out, of the four models that race in that series, only the Toyota Camry is actually built in the USA.
Chevy Monte Carlo - Oshawa, ON, Canada. (up until they killed it)
Ford Fusion - Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico
Dodge Charger - Brampton, ON, Canada
Toyota Camry - Georgetown, Kentucky.
How 'bout that?
I drive a Toyota. I'm trying to kill it so I can buy a newer and bigger Toyota. The little fucker just. wont. die.
Oh yeah, Chrysler has just announced that their Christmas shutdown will last until at least January 12 for all 30 of thir assembly plants world wide. There will be no Chrysler products built for at least one month, period. I wonder if there will be any room for foreign cars in those lots when the plants are shut?
~"We can't stop here! This is Bat Country!"~ |
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Emma Peel
Location: Ahowah
Gender: Female
Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 14 on 12/18/2008 7:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by LostintheWoods
only the Toyota Camry is actually built in the USA. |
Hah. Yay, me.
| I drive a Toyota. I'm trying to kill it so I can buy a newer and bigger Toyota. The little fucker just. wont. die. |
Um... This Top Gear episode might give you some ideas on how to kill it but they were unsuccessful so... maybe you can just build it into the set of your own TV show, like they did.
Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. |
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TrixieSparrow
Location: Hamilton, ON
Gender: Female
I guess.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 15 on 12/18/2008 7:09 AM >
| | | | Posted by yokes
Sadly, the parking lots are empty because all of the domestic cars are broken down on the sides of the roads.
(i kid)
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domestic cars are much like domestic beers.
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LostintheWoods
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Gender: Male
I have sunk into the mire of the deep, where there is no foothold.
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 16 on 12/18/2008 1:32 PM >
| | | | Posted by Emma Peel
Um... This Top Gear episode might give you some ideas on how to kill it but they were unsuccessful so... maybe you can just build it into the set of your own TV show, like they did.
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I've seen that. I'm a big fan of Top Gear. Watching series 12 now! Bittorrent owns.
~"We can't stop here! This is Bat Country!"~ |
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mowthelawn
Location: last one out of michigan please turn off the lights
Gender: Male
| | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 18 on 12/18/2008 9:19 PM >
| | | | i bought a bunch of surplus equipment from that plant. great deal on a welder until i realized it was three phase power to run it instead of single like the auction listing said. it is chilling to see it now as it was still running when i bought the stuff. great pics though.
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Clockwork
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
I WILL KILL THIS MONKEY! I'M CRAZY!
| | | Re: Only in Detroit
<Reply # 19 on 12/19/2008 12:48 AM >
| | | | Acura Legends are great cars. Mowthelawn, you sir have good taste in automobiles.
As for my opinions on domestic vs. foreign cars, all I have is experience to make my judgements.
I'm a Mopar man. I grew up riding in Chrysler K-Cars, and they were consistently good cars for my family. They seemed to be pretty reliable, as my parents liked them well enough to keep buying them (and still only drive Mopar to this day).
My first car was an '88 turbo coupe Lebaron which I raced and thrashed to bits (it died after my uncle crashed it in the winter of 2000). My next car was an '87 turbo Daytona (made in St. Louie) which I still have. It's been with me through a lot of shit, and even took me and two friends to Detroit once. Sadly, the car is not, nor has it ever been reliable (although being 20+ years old doesn't help). I've had so many problems with it over the years. The stock turbo hoses are a shitty design which I broke trying to fix this past summer. I'm looking at going with a vacuum block setup, but for now, the old girl patiently sits in my garage. So yeah, I love my Daytona, it's a cool car, but the turbo engine developed by Chrysler (while revolutionary for its time) is an unreliable design prone to idiotic problems.
After that, I got a '98 Mercury Sable (representin' Chi-town). That car, I'm sad to say, turned me against Ford for life. That car was fucking horrible. Shitty fuel economy. Shitty parts that broke constantly. The heater core went out on it within a year of my purchasing it, and I later found out that it was a defect Ford knew about, but went with anyways because they wanted to use cheaper crappier parts that almost always failed within a few years. I was glad to get rid of that shit heap.
The Eagle Talon (woo, Normal, Illinois), I mentioned above, has been a darling so far. Having 70 some thousand miles probably helps, as does the fact that it was a one-owner car before me, and the previous owner never tried to mod anything and the entire car is pure stock. The AWD makes it a joy to drive, and it's very comfortable on my many long cruises up to the Twin Cities. Like the Daytona, though, the Eagle is now hibernating for the winter (graaargh, salt bad!!!!!).
That leaves me with my winter warrior, my shitty '97 Cavalier (born in Lansing). The body was perfect when I bought it a year ago. After our brutal winter, the thing is a rust heap. I have to say, though, that despite the irritating breakages (the trunk no longer opens, for one) the Cavalier has caused me to have respect for GM. The Cavalier is a boring car with horrible seats (I have excruciating back aches whenever I drive long distances) but the fucker is a tireless fighter. The gas mileage is good, and it hasn't had any real mechanical failures yet (knock on wood). In the year I've owned it, I've driven the shit out of that car, and it just takes the abuse and keeps going. I've driven through some of the shittiest blizzards imagineable and never had a problem. If I had to pick between Chevy and Ford, I'd save the bowtie brand in a heartbeat.
As for foreign cars, I've got a lot of respect but a lot less experience. Slim Jim owns a newwish Honda Civic which has been brutalized and beaten as badly as a car can be, but it keeps driving and keeps getting good gas mileage. Jim likes to drive his car like he lives in Hazzard County, but thanks to Honda's good engineering, he can get away with it.
Macsbug has a new Acura which I got to drive to Montana recently. I was extremely impressed by the car. It's comfortable to drive and gets phenomenal gas mileage. All in all, it's a high quality automobile.
In general, I agree that both foreign and domestic automakers produce quality products. I don't know all the angles to the story, but it does sound like unions are at least partially to blame for "the big three" plight. Still, a lot of the bad management decisions from the higher ups in those companies have been disastrous. It's really hard for me to feel sorry for them if they go bankrupt, but I'm going to be really upset when Chrysler formally announces they're officially "over".
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