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Server Time:
2024-05-12 14:02:27
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 Deuterium
     
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 20 on 12/11/2007 2:17 PM >
|  | | | Posted by junkyard
That's BS. Beer has alcohol, which is made up of Oxygen among other things. The beer will keep you safe. Always has with us. Also I'm a mechanic and work in Oxygen deficient environments whenever I run a car with the doors closed. I'm still here. Nuff said.
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There's been workers who went unconscious in building basements. because of the location and the design, CO2, which is heavier than air pooled.
In drains, particularly sewer, area that's lower than everything else and colder is a good spot for CO2 to pool. If you start to feel light headed, you need fresh air, but it's not like you can just bail out on a moment's notice.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 21 on 12/11/2007 6:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
There's been workers who went unconscious in building basements. because of the location and the design, CO2, which is heavier than air pooled.
In drains, particularly sewer, area that's lower than everything else and colder is a good spot for CO2 to pool. If you start to feel light headed, you need fresh air, but it's not like you can just bail out on a moment's notice.
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And then you collapse and die. Anyone that tries to rescue you will likely meet the same fate, unless they have air feed equipment on. By that time that happens, it will prolly be too late.
You can't hold your breath long enough to drag someone out, and once in need of O2, the first breath you take in that air will most likely knock you out, very nasty business. It's killed many experienced rescue people; it's insidious.
A very good point Deuterium, and most poisonous gases are heavier than air. If there's too little O2, it doesn't need to be poisonous and will kill almost as fast.
Carbon Dioxide is nasty because it triggers the breathing reflex and causes you to breath faster involuntarily which increases your absorption and accelerates your demise. Many poisonous gases cause a similar effect and can overcome you very rapidly.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 22 on 12/11/2007 10:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
And then you collapse and die. Anyone that tries to rescue you will likely meet the same fate, unless they have air feed equipment on. By that time that happens, it will prolly be too late.
You can't hold your breath long enough to drag someone out, and once in need of O2, the first breath you take in that air will most likely knock you out, very nasty business. It's killed many experienced rescue people; it's insidious.
A very good point Deuterium, and most poisonous gases are heavier than air. If there's too little O2, it doesn't need to be poisonous and will kill almost as fast.
Carbon Dioxide is nasty because it triggers the breathing reflex and causes you to breath faster involuntarily which increases your absorption and accelerates your demise. Many poisonous gases cause a similar effect and can overcome you very rapidly.
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So... when do you actually EXPLORE...
I talk but I explore too... I haven't heard one instance of you exploring
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 23 on 12/11/2007 11:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
So... when do you actually EXPLORE...
I talk but I explore too... I haven't heard one instance of you exploring
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Sorry I've been chopping wood. Never liked riding elevators anyway...
guess I'm picky who I share things with... tough walnuts for you.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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micro
 
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 24 on 12/12/2007 1:41 AM >
| | | | What Blackhawk says is accurate enough, but I've never heard of a case where a drainer has run into problems because of toxic gases. While gases are always something to keep in mind, there's never been a case (that I know of) involving anyone in the international draining community who has died, let alone incapacitated because of air quality. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen eventually, but there's equal (if not greater) risk involved when walking through a building that's structurally unsound or even driving home from work when the weather isn't the greatest.
Just something to keep in mind, because I'd hate to see anyone here be deterred from exploring drains or sewers because of what's been said here thus far.
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 25 on 12/12/2007 4:37 AM >
| | | | How many sewers have you been in Deuterium? Sewers are not always lower than everything else. And they are not cold. Many a time I have had fogged glasses and have been sweating buckets in the sewers. And I stand by my statement. I have never died in a sewer and nothing tastes better than a good ol fashioned sandy sewer beer. therefor I conclude beer keeps one safe in the sewers
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 26 on 12/12/2007 5:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by micro
What Blackhawk says is accurate enough, but I've never heard of a case where a drainer has run into problems because of toxic gases. While gases are always something to keep in mind, there's never been a case (that I know of) involving anyone in the international draining community who has died, let alone incapacitated because of air quality. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen eventually, but there's equal (if not greater) risk involved when walking through a building that's structurally unsound or even driving home from work when the weather isn't the greatest.
Just something to keep in mind, because I'd hate to see anyone here be deterred from exploring drains or sewers because of what's been said here thus far.
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I can recall hearing stories but most deaths I know about involved cisterns and tanks, sometimes less than a couple yards was all that separated the dying and dead from fresh air. One case claim the lives of two would be rescuers (fire police), and the initial victim. Sewers generally don't have issues like this. One problem with any kind of sewer is you never know when some moron might decide to dump and depose of chemicals, or an accidental spill like gasoline or LP would be a real bitch.
Your real enemies are more mundane; falls and drowning, and potentially hypothermia if you become trapped or severely injured.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 27 on 12/12/2007 6:44 AM >
| | | | Yeah, tanks and vaults can be a bit more problematic.
Hypothermia's not really an issue though. Most storm drains and sewers tend to stay pretty warm during the winter months. It's only when you get out that you have to be careful.
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 28 on 12/12/2007 6:21 PM >
| | | | I'm suprised with all the scaremongering about bad air in storm drains, no one has brought up the issue of the bacterial nasties you could pick up. Perhaps they can make some people sick for a few days, but they could be deadly to people with say, compromised immune systems.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 29 on 12/12/2007 7:06 PM >
| | | | Well, storm drains are generally pretty clean when it comes to that sort of thing. Sewers on the other hand..
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 30 on 12/12/2007 8:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by micro
Well, storm drains are generally pretty clean when it comes to that sort of thing. Sewers on the other hand..
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I know the city does testing for all types of organisms in storm systems, so I still wouldn't trust the water so much. Then again I wouldn't go drinking out of creeks or lakes anytime soon, anywhere.
[last edit 12/12/2007 8:39 PM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 32 on 12/14/2007 9:38 PM >
| | | | Generally, if water can flow out of the drain, heavier-than-air gasses can flow out too... I think I've heard of one drain-death (underage CC wannabe in aus).. but really, it's pretty safe. Psiolo even attributes his good health to his regular drainwalking. Enough bacteria he's used to em all, or something like that.
A respirator won't do you too good, especially as drains don't tend to be too dusty. I've only ever once wished for a respirator, and that was the basement of an abandoned factory, where there was excessive amounts of dust, abestos warnings, obvious water damage (and thus mold was suspect)... Drains have always seemed clean to me, and so far, I'm fine.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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mastershakes
Location: sioux falls, SD
Gender: Male
For only in the grip of darkness will we shine amidst the brightest stars
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 33 on 5/3/2008 8:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by AaronNi
If the tube was completely full of water I'd agree with your question, but if there are "flow remnants" on the walls, which are drying out, there's a possibility for airborne particles.
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you mean?...mud?
"for only in the grip of darkness, will we shine amidst the brightest stars." -cradle of filth |
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monster
Location: Sugarland, TX / Minneapolis MN
Gender: Female
I am the thing that goes bump in the night
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 34 on 5/4/2008 4:23 PM >
| | | | Some diving companies sell emergency air canisters. You could buy one and take it with you draining and if you start to feel light-headed, you could breath from it until you reach fresh air.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 35 on 5/4/2008 4:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by monster
Some diving companies sell emergency air canisters. You could buy one and take it with you draining and if you start to feel light-headed, you could breath from it until you reach fresh air.
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By the time you feel light headed it will prolly be too late. Things move much faster than you might imagine; you'll be lucky just to sit down without falling uncontrollably before you black out, let alone anything else.
Once in trouble your consumption of air will increase dramatically; even a 20 minute supply may not be enough even if you manage to get it on.
You need to stay ahead of the curve if you want to survive; reacting after the fact will likely result in a trip to the morgue in truly hostile environment.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Kamp Koala
Location: wpg.
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 36 on 5/5/2008 6:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by CaptOrbit
What happens when there is to much hydrogen sulfide, not enough oxygen, and you are extremely lucky.
http://www.actionsquad.org/stahl.htm
It's a really good read.
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wow. you're right. sicketating, but fascinating.
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 37 on 5/5/2008 4:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by mastershakes
you mean?...mud?
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He means dried, powdery poop. It's bad for you.
And BB-typically you can tell when you're starting to lack oxygen (if you are used to checking for the signs, atleast.) But this means you can turn around before it becomes too late too...
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 38 on 5/5/2008 5:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
And BB-typically you can tell when you're starting to lack oxygen (if you are used to checking for the signs, atleast.) But this means you can turn around before it becomes too late too...
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You don't have much experience with black outs do you? I've worked in very hostile environments for a living using air fed hoods.
One breath is too much, and it also can intoxicate via penetrating intact skin; many solvents are like this!
I've helped pull overcome workers out too, including one who was sitting 60 feet up in a tank riser he was painting thinking he was Santa coming down the chimney! Ho-ho! Merry Christmas!
One-two, that's all the time you get sometimes. First the peripheral vision grays out, then the center goes gray, gone, and then your hearing does the same. If you haven't sat down, you'll be falling down. Thinking macho bs doesn't help get O2 to your brain or reduce gases or chemicals in the air and your blood.
You goof up with this, you'll be dead when you wake up, and if others are with you, you will most likely cost them their lives as well if they're dumb enough to try to rescue you!
I know a man who lost an eye in trichloroethane because he was trying to clean a tank full of it's vapors. He passed out and landed face down in 2 inches of it.
He's lucky not to be dead or have lost both eyes. They used self contained breathing packs to pull him out. He thought he could handle it... and he had until that day.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Respirator while draining?
<Reply # 39 on 5/5/2008 7:58 PM >
| | | | I've only had the "pleasure" of experiencing low-oxygen environments. With the more dangerous chemicals... Yeah. No urbex is worth that risk.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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