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 maZe
       
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
 |  |  |  | Opinions in the forum
< on 12/13/2005 12:06 AM >
|  | | | First, let me say I'm really sorry to have to bring this issue up.
Ok. This being said. I would like for someone to clarify how we, the members of UER, can express our opinions on subjects related to urban explorations in the forums.
Where as :
-I fully understand this site is owned by Av-x and he can do whatever he wants to do with it
-I fully recognized the rights of the moderators to jump into any threads and delete it, lock it and ban members
-Open discussions have always helped the UE community to progress and to look ahead, facing the challenges that arises so the community can grow into a stronger, more informed, more interesting, more ethical group
-I fully recognized the right of any moderators to have its own opinions
I therefore question:
-The fact that a moderator can call members "bitching idiots" in public forums, delete his own posts all this without any consequences
-A anglophone moderator can jump into a francophone thread and lock it despite the fact that (except for one 3-word comment) the community was having a very civilized and interesting discussion
-the fact that a moderator threatens the community to temp-ban any user that would start on new thread on the subject of Ethic of UE regarding how to handle the medias
-the fact that a moderator adopts what I and other members finds a very aggressive, offensive and disrespectful approach in his moderating of the forums.
In the face of this situation, I would like to know if it's normal that UER members cannot express their opinions in the forums and when they do question some decisions/actions of the moderators, they get a "(mod name) has the right to his opinions" answer, without answering the question of the member's rights to express their own opinions too.
Furthermore, here are some proactive suggestions to fix this unfortunate situation :
1)Nominate another moderator for the Quebec forum, one that is francophone, as it was requested by me and Nostra over a year ago when trouble first emerged.
2)Go back to the francophone forum we had before, which worked very well.
3)have more responsible moderation rules so we can have intelligent and interesting discussions on UER, as this is a great site for the good of our community.
[last edit 12/13/2005 12:13 AM by maZe - edited 1 times]
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| |  | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 1 on 12/13/2005 12:16 AM >
| | | | While I could not follow the thread in question very closely (my French being inelegant in the extreme) I was disheartened and somewhat shocked to see that it was eventually locked in what can only be described as a childish temper tantrum.
Maze raises some very good points, nameably the very poor attitude displayed by UEM-TUX on a matter that is both pertinent and relevant to UE in general and MTRL UE in particular.
The Dow brewery is well known and loved on the MTRL scene (Christ, even I've been there!!) and now it is sealed. The action of another explorer may be to blame for this - it may not: but I don't see why rational discussion on that point is out of the question all of a sudden!?
I do not understand the reasons for it being suddenly closed for a 'PERSONAL ATTACK' that was nothing of the sort and I would ask the administration to explain the logic of this to us, here in this thread.
While I cannot understand fully the Franco/Anglophone problem (speaking only Scottish myself) I can understand that if someone shouted at me in French on an English thread and then ignorantly ended said thread for no logical reason - I would be understandably pissed off.
Chris...
PS: I formally request a temp-ban also, should one be handed to Maze. Might as well try a constant approach, hmmm?
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 2 on 12/13/2005 12:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by maZe
-The fact that a moderator can call members "bitching idiots" in public forums, delete his own posts all this without any consequences
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There are a few instances that an issue has risen and a moderator has taken the blame for it. When Crossfire went haywire and temp-banned two users, he took responsibility, as did Ed when he temp-banned me on accident. The latter he was not even aware of until I had to message a friend to message him. But both apologized and went on their ways.
Now in other instances, Jester, for instance, likes to poke the pig and see it squeal. No problem with that as other members do it all the time, except that a moderator determines when it is a "problem" and when it is not. For instance, the Don Valley Brickworks thread was just locked because a discussion that was still quite fresh and hadn't degenerated into flames appearantly irked the opposition of a moderator. I don't mind that as long as there is a valid reason. There are many posts in which a moderator gets bitched upon, such as towards Jester in the UEA threads, that he doesn't lock it. Shows restraint.
-A anglophone moderator can jump into a francophone thread and lock it despite the fact that (except for one 3-word comment) the community was having a very civilized and interesting discussion
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Not all moderators are perfect, they are human too. They might not have seen it from your perspective.
-the fact that a moderator threatens the community to temp-ban any user that would start on new thread on the subject of Ethic of UE regarding how to handle the medias
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I'm not sure I know the thread you are talking about, but if it is a common question that can be easily searched and added onto, then by all means the thread should be locked and a link posted to another thread of the same or similar topic. No sense in having three threads about the same issue running all at the same time.
-the fact that a moderator adopts what I and other members finds a very aggressive, offensive and disrespectful approach in his moderating of the forums.
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There are many posts, such as the Poop/Pee thread that haven't been locked. The argument that ensued in that thread has been resolved without moderators stepping in and deleting posts or locking threads, and now everyone is happy to agree to disagree. As am I.
In other threads, unfortunately, that is not the case.
I think a lot of the 'disrespect' or 'agrressive' approach stems from moderators posting links to other threads or posting a search button instead of a message? If that is the case, it is fully justified. There are too many instances where people are just getting lazy and not actually searching for a post. I have been guilty of that in the past myself, but now I have learned a lot about the search function and booleans and can find almost any post that I want to refer to.
It also gets annoying when people post ways to get into a building, or how to get to someplace and so on. I can see their frustration.
1)Nominate another moderator for the Quebec forum, one that is francophone, as it was requested by me and Nostra over a year ago when trouble first emerged.
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Why do we need another specific-board moderator? I think the situation is fine the way it is, as the current method of checks and balances works quite well. Disagree with something, and you are free to vent your opinion, as you have done. No harm in that.
Abandoned |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 3 on 12/13/2005 12:37 AM >
| | | | Ok Siecer, it's a good idea to check the subject matter you are going to make a long post about -=first=-:
Observe the 'system of checks and balances' at work:
http://www.uer.ca/...d=25324&currpage=2
Pretty impressive, no?
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 4 on 12/13/2005 12:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
Ok Siecer, it's a good idea to check the subject matter you are going to make a long post about -=first=-:
Observe the 'system of checks and balances' at work:
http://www.uer.ca/...d=25324&currpage=2
Pretty impressive, no?
Chris...
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Since there was no link and I didn't have to shits about what Maze was referring to, I had no idea. But after reviewing that thread, I see it as unfair and unjust. UEM-TEX needs to be spanked and punished with whips and chains, and electrodes, and...
But that is just insane. I do not think that is representative of the entire moderator community. I agree with Turbo, if maze is temp-banned, add my name to the list.
Abandoned |
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Avatar-X
 
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 5 on 12/13/2005 12:43 AM >
| | | | I unfortunatly can't give an opinion on this issue as I do not speak french. I will have to rely on the instincts of those mods who do speak french.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 6 on 12/13/2005 12:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I unfortunatly can't give an opinion on this issue as I do not speak french. I will have to rely on the instincts of those mods who do speak french.
-av
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The french is ok, it's the english element of the thread that is at fault.
You will find it concentrated towards the last post.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 7 on 12/13/2005 12:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I unfortunatly can't give an opinion on this issue as I do not speak french. I will have to rely on the instincts of those mods who do speak french.
-av
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I used http://babelfish.altavista.com/ for mine. Slow but it works at least.
Abandoned |
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kowalski
| | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 8 on 12/13/2005 12:45 AM >
| | | | I've gone through the thread and seen no rational reason for its closure. As a result I've reopened it. Since I'm fairly decent with written french (my problems mostly rest in speaking it), I'll do my best to lend an impartial eye to the Quebec forum when I can.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 10 on 12/13/2005 12:45 AM >
| | | | I can't make a judgement about the thread without reading all of it.
This is the reason that we didn't used to allow French or any other language on this site: It was difficult to moderate.
If these problems continue, I will need to reinstate this rule.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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maZe
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 11 on 12/13/2005 12:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
Not all moderators are perfect, they are human too. They might not have seen it from your perspective.
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I'm not asking for anyone to have my perspective but I'm asking for respect for my perspective.
Posted by seicer
I'm not sure I know the thread you are talking about, but if it is a common question that can be easily searched and added onto, then by all means the thread should be locked and a link posted to another thread of the same or similar topic. No sense in having three threads about the same issue running all at the same time.
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I really don't like to go into specific. But this is what the mod said. He specifically said that ANY user that will start another thread on the subject of ethic on how to handle TV medias re: uer will get temp-banned. Here are his words :
"If this issue comes up in the forum again, the thread WILL be deleted, and the next person to start a thread along these lines will be temp-banned."
Maybe I'm getting it wrong but what I understand is that the mod will temp-banned the next person to start a thread on the discussed subject (which was How to handle TV medias in the general context of Quebec medias).
Posted by seicer
I think a lot of the 'disrespect' or 'agrressive' approach stems from moderators posting links to other threads or posting a search button instead of a message? If that is the case, it is fully justified.
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What am I talking about is comments like this one :
" all you idiots..."
I don't see why a mod would call members "bitching idiots" when we are trying to discuss a valid subject.
Posted by seicer
I think the situation is fine the way it is, as the current method of checks and balances works quite well. Disagree with something, and you are free to vent your opinion, as you have done. No harm in that.
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I don't think the situation in the Quebec forum is fine. I think there is a lot of check but no balance. I also believe only mods can vent their opinions and that's why I'm raising the issue here. I have no doubt raising this issue in the Quebec forum would get me temp-banned just for raising this up. And that's the attitude I'm questionning.
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
|
TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 12 on 12/13/2005 12:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I can't make a judgement about the thread without reading all of it.
This is the reason that we didn't used to allow French or any other language on this site: It was difficult to moderate.
If these problems continue, I will need to reinstate this rule.
-av
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Or... Get an effective french speaking moderator? You live in a bi-lingual country Av, mate.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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maZe
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 13 on 12/13/2005 12:50 AM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I can't make a judgement about the thread without reading all of it.
This is the reason that we didn't used to allow French or any other language on this site: It was difficult to moderate.
If these problems continue, I will need to reinstate this rule.
-av
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Av. Lots of people are bilingual. We just want a fair moderator that speak our language. That's all. Nothing more.
And thanks to Kowalski for his help. This could take care of it.
Thanks again.
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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cjb
Location: Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 14 on 12/13/2005 12:51 AM >
| | | | About the thread regarding this post, If you read it, Who was the most offensive ? Me, or the moderator in question? Does moderator status give you the right to act as a morons? I doubt so.
I'm one of the oldest member of this forum, and I always tried to act as civil as possible. I think I have the full right to give my opinion, even if it means not agreeing with another member's action. There was no flamewar, no insults. Stop being paranoiac about every thread not being about how everybody agrees. This is the real world, sometimes people disagree and they have the right to do so.
I think I acted civil this time too, but someone just felt the need to close the topic withtout any explanation. I think who needs a severe warning here is the moderator in question ( no need to give names, I don't like personnal attacks)
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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Agent Skelly
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  |  | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 15 on 12/13/2005 1:16 AM >
| | | | I know the French issue quite well as it happened over at DSLReports.com with the VideoTron forum when they realized they would better serve the posters if they allowed French. The solution was to have a bilingul member be the moderator for that fourm and there hasn't been in a issue in there at all.
So I suggest for UER that Nostra-Yuppi be the mod for the Quebec Fourm
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maZe
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 16 on 12/13/2005 1:18 AM >
| | | | Posted by Agent Skelly
So I suggest for UER that Nostra-Yuppi be the mod for the Quebec Fourm
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I second that motion.
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
|
TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 17 on 12/13/2005 1:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by maZe
I second that motion.
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Gets my vote.
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 18 on 12/13/2005 1:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by maZe
-the fact that a moderator threatens the community to temp-ban any user that would start on new thread on the subject of Ethic of UE regarding how to handle the medias
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There's a search feature, and it cheeses everyone off when people ignore it.
-the fact that a moderator adopts what I and other members finds a very aggressive, offensive and disrespectful approach in his moderating of the forums.
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Like Seicer said, a lot of board members and mods like to "mess with people". They're not being aggressive, you just have to take it the right way.
Really, the mod situation is not that bad. And Kowalski just said he'll reopen the french thread. Even if the mods do screw up occasionally, they usually readily attend to their mistake. The problem we really need to be worrying about right now is . . . THE FRICKIN' CHRISTMAS MODE! (forgive me, I couldn't help myself).
[/quote]
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Opinions in the forum
<Reply # 19 on 12/13/2005 1:22 AM >
| | | | Kowalski reopened the thread, so the checks and balances feature worked.
Abandoned |
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