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Server Time:
2024-05-15 22:25:30
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 Jester
  
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
 |  |  | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 20 on 9/14/2003 11:34 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Logik - UEQ
...There are no other Urban Explorers in Québec city...
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Don't always be so quick to assume. I would bet you there are indeed other explorers there, you just don't know them and they don't know this community even exists. I hear from people all the time, in many areas that say they "never knew their hobby had a name and there were others doing it"...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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mada
Noble Donor
Location: Orange County, California
Gender: Male
23437
| |  |  | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 22 on 9/15/2003 12:56 AM >
|  | | | Posted by allva
Just follow your heart.
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Well said. To take or not to take. Some people have no problem with taking a little something with them. Or a big something with them for that matter. If you can take something that you know is not yours without feeling bad about it then there is really nothing stopping you from doing it. For me it just doesn’t sit well. I've been tempted, sure. But I know that if I go for it it'll eat at me later on. So I just don't. As for buildings that are going to be torn down, the same principles apply. If you can live with it then do it, but if not then don't. If your not sure than that's a good indicator that there may be some personal reservations. In which case take only pictures leave only foot prints. It's simple but it works out for everybody.
The following sentence is false. The preceding sentence is true.
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darkism
 
Gender: Male
hop on the bandwagon
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 23 on 9/15/2003 1:16 AM >
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there was a kid who used to IM me who told me his exploits at an abandoned hospital where he would bring his friends pickup truck and actually haul out old furniture which he would get loads of money for, a little over the top if you ask me.
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Yea that's probably crossing the line between "taking a small piece of the place to remember it by" and into "looting, pillaging and generally stealing."
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nominal
Location: Grimsby
Gender: Male
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 24 on 9/15/2003 1:29 AM >
| | | | The reason for the whole "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints" thing is because that line you mentioned is impossible to define. It's different for you and me so they only way to make sure you don't cross it is to take nothing. It's not like you NEED anything you would find in an abandoned building.
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Mochi
Location: West Jordan, Utah
Gender: Male
Stare deep into a kitty's nose.
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 25 on 9/15/2003 5:14 AM >
| | | | RHS has had a bad habit of tagging AND nabbing, in the past, but I'm trying to break us all of this.
HERE'S a good puzzle!!!
If you found a wad of CASH (at least a hundred) at a UE site, covered in dust, obviously left behind when the beuilding was first left, would you take the cash or leave it behind?! Answer! It's not a hypothetical question!! I want responses!!
>_< Mochi, now, dagnabit! Tarnfoundit! Dadblastit!
JESUS SAVES!!!
(And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!) |
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Ferret
Location: Toronto
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 26 on 9/15/2003 5:53 AM >
| | | | Posted by Riceballicus Maximus
HERE'S a good puzzle!!!
If you found a wad of CASH (at least a hundred) at a UE site, covered in dust, obviously left behind when the beuilding was first left, would you take the cash or leave it behind?! Answer! It's not a hypothetical question!! I want responses!!
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I would leave it.
Why? It's likely something left after abandonment, and there is also a good chance whoever lost it had gained it by illegal means. Could be from a robbery, could be drug money, could be counterfeit, could be marked, or it could just be honestly lost money. What's your risk threshold?
Edit - Second option, take it and use all of it to join Av's Noble Donator list.
[last edit 9/15/2003 1:11 AM by Ferret - edited 1 times]
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 27 on 9/15/2003 6:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by Riceballicus Maximus
If you found a wad of CASH (at least a hundred) at a UE site, covered in dust, obviously left behind when the beuilding was first left, would you take the cash or leave it behind?!
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I'd take it, but then make an effort to call the owner, explaining what I was doing in the building and let them know that I found it and took it so that someone else wandering through the building couldn't steal it. Then I could arrange to meet with them and return it. Hopefully I could get some more info about the place, and maybe even a tour. At that point, you've already seen the place, and probably did it while sneaking around and maybe even in a hurry. I think it would be nice to sometimes be able to take your time in a place and get some neat pictures. Quite often on my explorations I dont get nearly enough time to set up for a perfect shot each time and end up with some sloppy pictures that could be alot better.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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mada
Noble Donor
Location: Orange County, California
Gender: Male
23437
| | | | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 28 on 9/15/2003 6:13 AM >
| | | | Posted by Riceballicus Maximus
HERE'S a good puzzle!!!
If you found a wad of CASH (at least a hundred) at a UE site, covered in dust, obviously left behind when the beuilding was first left, would you take the cash or leave it behind?! Answer! It's not a hypothetical question!! I want responses!!
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I'll worry about that when and if it ever happens. Fat chance I'm sure. To be perfectly honest, I'd probably take it. Then bring it back. Then take it again. Then bring it back. Then take it again. Then bring it back with a firm resolution to leave it. Then take it again.
And so on until my head explodes.
What'd you expect? I'm only human :-p
The following sentence is false. The preceding sentence is true.
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nominal
Location: Grimsby
Gender: Male
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 29 on 9/15/2003 6:59 AM >
| | | | Ouch. Good one Mochi. I would love to say I'd leave it but who would I be kidding. First I'd take a picture of it to show you guys what I found, then I'd pocket it and tell everybody I left it right where I found it.
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nominal
Location: Grimsby
Gender: Male
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 30 on 9/15/2003 7:01 AM >
| | | | Take nothing but pictures and cash, leave nothing but foot prints and IOUs.
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Caput_58
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 31 on 9/15/2003 7:05 AM >
| | | | Grab the cash. Taking it does not detract or destroy the 'atmosphere' of the building for other explorers. And I have no reason to believe that the cash in fact belongs to the building's own (or anyone affiliated with the building), nor do I have any reasonable expection that the owner of the cash will return for it. What I do expect is that the next punk kids who come along are going to take it anyway. If your really bothered by it, leave a note with an email address in case whoever comes back to get their money.
On the whole though, I could put it to good use buying camera accessories and beer.
Caput_58
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 32 on 9/15/2003 9:54 AM >
| | | | I try to adhere to the "take nothing but pictures" ethic, but I bend it sometimes. If I find something cool that was lost, deliberately thrown away, or would be taken by the next explorer, I'll sometimes take it. When Spartacus and I found loaded M16 clips and a nice pocketknife at a missile base, we took them. We also took a spent smoke grenade and some of the empty machine gun shells and belt links scattered everywhere. The military uses the place for training, so I have no doubt that more of this will show up, and while I'm sure some soldier regrets losing his ammo and knife I'm not about to give them back to the military.
I've had the opportunity to nab quite a bit of stuff that wouldn't have been missed, and would have been useful or valuable to me, but I've always followed my instincts and in most cases left it alone (ex: usable backup generator and rackmounted radio equipment, old computers and office equipment, antique railroad tools, old mining tools, amusing "sexology" pamphlets from the 50s, etc). The only time I really looted a place and felt no guilt was when I found my high school's computer graveyard, because of their asinine policy of destroying all surplus equipment I felt justified in taking whatever I wanted.
I guess my morals are a little looser than other explorers, I don't think it's a problem that gets any worse with time as someone else theorized. If anything I've gotten less willing to take souveniers as I explored longer, I'm usually the one who has to keep some of my more light-fingered exploring buddies in line when we come across something particularly interesting.
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 33 on 9/15/2003 10:00 AM >
| | | | Also: if I ever find something obviously lost/stolen and valuable, I'll try to contact the owner or police to return it. I found a VERY nice computer in a dumpster last night (brand new) which I suspect is "hot", but the cops say it hasn't been reported stolen. I haven't found anything like that while exploring, aside from the usual stolen and burned cars. I guess in answer to Mochi's question, I'd take the money and leave a note "lose something? email <anon. address>". If I didn't hear from anyone in a month or so it'd go towards beer and new computer parts (and Av's server costs  )
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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Kimmo
Noble Donor
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 34 on 9/15/2003 2:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by Freak
Also: if I ever find something obviously lost/stolen and valuable, I'll try to contact the owner or police to return it. I found a VERY nice computer in a dumpster last night (brand new) which I suspect is "hot", but the cops say it hasn't been reported stolen.
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This is what I also do. I've actually earned 20 euros (20$) with UE. I found a brand new bicycle in one bush, near a mill in my previous home town. I told the police, they wrote down my information and after a year I got a letter from the police department, that the bicycle had been sold as no one claimed it and there for I'm titled to collect 20 euros from the police department.
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Mochi
Location: West Jordan, Utah
Gender: Male
Stare deep into a kitty's nose.
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 35 on 9/15/2003 2:19 PM >
| | | | As far as dumpster diving and "near-site" UE finds, report them, them stash them, then wait. If you get notice from the police that's it's "all coo'", then it's LEGALLY yours. Stupid kids and mob monkeys shouldn't be leaving their stuff behind for "innocent" UEers to nab, anyways. Dur.
>_< Mochi, quotations muyo...
JESUS SAVES!!!
(And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!) |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 36 on 9/15/2003 3:12 PM >
| | | | Happy to say the only thing I ever took was a blueprint/map from a giant pile of blueprints/maps - The site was about 40 square miles and had about 120 structures - the map helped us find several building we would have missed - It also clued us in to "CONTAMINATED" areas we needed to avoid.
It was a handy tool for the day, and I think it made a nice trophy - still I feel guilt over it to this day - not guilt bad enough to drive the 150 miles to take it back or anything - but I do feel like it was out of line.
Sice I started UE'ing I've been hoping to find a switch, just a simple switch, or a button from one fo the missile bases we've been on. I don't know what I'll do with it - wire up my garage door or something - but I haven't been able to find one...They're all picked clean - oh well.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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ReAct
Location: Northern Jersey... For now.
Gender: Male
| | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 37 on 9/15/2003 3:28 PM >
| | | | I have the mind of an engineer, just not the intelligence to match. I can't tell you how many times I've seen buildings torn down and all of this equipment, switchgear, motors, pumps, transformers, just crushed under the treads of the excavating equipment. Wonderful equipment, a lot of it still completely usable.
It's always been a dream of mine to start up a business on the side: Find buildings slated for demolition and go in with a truck and some tools and remove any large pieces of functional equipment, fix it up, clean it up, resell it on the surplus market. Stuff that would normally sell for thousand of dollars new, you sell it used for a tiny fraction of the original price. You would think there would be a market for that, maybe I'm wrong seeing as how so much of this just gets destroyed. I oughta find some folks in the salvage industry and talk to them about how it all plays out. But what a great job, combine two things I love: Engineering and UE and have it all be perfectly legit and legal... *sigh*
-ReAct
"'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me."
"That says '13.2kV.'"
"Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...." |
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Noah Vale
Location: Portland, Or
It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay
| | | | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 38 on 9/15/2003 5:05 PM >
| | | | ReAct: ^^ TFW Willie (in the Texas thread) used to be in demolition and maybe salvage. He might be able to help ya out.
"Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. |
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Corporeal Punishment
Location: Lima Center, WI
Gender: Male
Welcome to your heart...
| | Re: ethics on taking items
<Reply # 39 on 9/15/2003 7:20 PM >
| | | | ...Ummm, as far as the gambling sheet goes, I took it cuz A) It appealed to me, and  (the real reason I felt it was ok to take) The house was to be demolished in a month's time. Sadly, I didn't own a camera at the time or I would have some pretty cool pics of the place. Also, I was 16 at the time. I'm 23 now and actually have some semblance of morals.
Suit by Armani...Balls by King Kong.
"Please do not offer my god a peanut" |
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