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1 2   UER Forum > Archived UE Main > The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post (Viewed 1154 times) Poll Question: What is grafitti? Total Votes: 48 1. Only Nice Murals! 25 52.08 % 2. Murals AND tags! 12 25 % 3. Completely immoral! 11 22.92 % uem-Tux  Iron Wok Jan Location: Montreal Gender: Male UE Geek  |  |  |  The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post < on 9/14/2003 5:15 AM >   Okay, I went off topic in another thread with this post, so here's a seperate thread about it. I personally have no moral objection to grafitti. If it looks good, I say throw it up! Our cities ARE too plain and grey. My personal beef is tags, which make whatever they're on ugly, to my eyes. I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on this. I don't practice grafitti, but I think I understand what the people who do are thinking. I'd like to get some graf artists' views on this... (is there loose moral code in graf like in UE? A sort of, "take nothing but flix, leave nothing but a good piece" kind of rule?) I'm particularly interested in people's views on tags... is a tag artistic expression, or visual pollution? (See the poll) My thinking is that this: and this are very VERY different. In my mind, one is grafitti, the other is a bunch of idiot kids with markers. Urban Exploration Montreal Why are you the way that you are? Nismo  Location: Montreal. Lachine Gender: Male It's so vewy droi here  |  |  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 1 on 9/14/2003 5:33 AM >   Only nice murals, what really pisses me off is one some one tags over a nice mural. Servo   |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 2 on 9/14/2003 5:42 AM >   I really prefer it if the places I visit remain untouched from their state when they were abandoned, natural decay being the only change. If it's a drain or a concrete wall outside with no aesthetics in the first place, then nice murals are fine. But otherwise, the "take only pictures, leave only footprints" philosophy is what I wish everyone would follow. The Dark One  Location: Montreal, Quebec Gender: Male Twist  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 3 on 9/14/2003 5:57 AM >   I don't mind murals if they aren't covering anything nice underneath. I find stuff like this mural here pretty cool, but worthless tags and lameass posturing/threats sprayed onto other murals/interstings signage is a real pisser. Edit: another view of that mural. [last edit 9/14/2003 1:01 AM by The Dark One - edited 1 times] *** MsMaul was kicked by MsMaul (I didn't eat enough bagels!!!!111) Stochastic Probability  Location: Barrie Gender: Male Yeah, well, keep it down, okay?  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 4 on 9/14/2003 5:57 AM >   Posted by Servo I really prefer it if the places I visit remain untouched from their state when they were abandoned, natural decay being the only change. If it's a drain or a concrete wall outside with no aesthetics in the first place, then nice murals are fine. But otherwise, the "take only pictures, leave only footprints" philosophy is what I wish everyone would follow. Dead on, 100%. I'm all for a mural or legitimately artistic tagging in a place with no outstanding features, i.e. concrete wall. Go for it! I've seen some incredible graf but I hate to see it in certain places. We all believe in fringe things, and most of us believe in respecting where we go. If you do tag or graf and you are into this hobby also, I'm sure you show the buildings the respect that they need. Right? "People say that you'll die faster than without water, but we know it's just a lie, scare your son, scare your daughter" Curious_George  Location: Cambridge Gender: Male Straight outta New Bedlam  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 5 on 9/14/2003 6:35 AM >   I have somewhat of a complex here as I disapprove of any sort of graffiti in abandoned buildings but approve of murals under things such as bridges. One of the things that tick me off the most are when stupid ass teenagers tag over giant wall murals that have taken massive amounts of time and money to produce. Someone should give em' a swift kick in the face if you ask me. SPEK Photo  Location: Where you were not. "Chere cachère!"  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 6 on 9/14/2003 6:35 AM >   Posted by Agent.Smith Only nice murals, what really pisses me off is one some one tags over a nice mural. I know what you mean: Before: click to view AND AFTER.... click to view croosed by CAME an overweighted kid The main problem is that tags are part of graffiti, one comes with the other. Some writers do only tags; mostly kid or untalented artist. Others will do nice mural or "real" work, with few or no tags at all; thats better. Tags are usually done were it doesn't worth to do a bigger graf, just to say you were there, or to sign something. The problem like it is showed in the first picture of this forum is overuse of tags to a point you can't even see a thing. "(is there loose moral code in graf like in UE?" ? Mainly, unless you are stupid and have totally no respect at all, Writters won't: -graf on a car, unless it is a delivery truck. -On a church -On private houses: like tagging a front door in a residential area -On others writters work: If you go over somebody wall/graf, make an nicer and bigger. Don't do like CAME did like in the picture of this post: it is a good way do get into trouble. There is an hierarchy into the kind of graf writters will do: from the cheaper to the best: tag, throw-up/outline, bubbly, small piece, Big piece. we all know what is a tag... here is a small piece on the left, followed by two bubblly, and some throw-up further on the right. Note that because these were done on a train, they all "worth" more than if they were on a wall. click to view a throw-up is just a fast filled bubbly, with not too-much care. and here is a mega big piece: click to view a few good mural can be an nice addition to an abandoned building. But there is somethimes when too much IS really too much. Montreal's Malting plant in 1996... click to view And in 2003... click to view [last edit 9/14/2003 1:40 AM by SPEK Photo - edited 2 times] Pour fins d'archives. WWW.EXPLORATIONURBAINE.CA The Lost Flock  Location: Montreal, QC Gender: Male baaah.  |  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 7 on 9/14/2003 7:01 AM >   I am all for a nice mural on some generic wall in a building, some of em show real skill, and I respect that. Just wish I could match it. Tags, I have issues with. I personally enjoy dropping a little signature in the locations I go to, just as a memento of my visit, but I always do it somewhere tasteful. Like in the Malt Plant in Toronto, there is a room right before the highest roof with a couple huge chunks of flat rusting metal that have been tagged like crazy by almost everyone, that's fine, they had nothing on them before, and no real value. But I would not tag the wall in the stairwell, that just seems tacky to me. I dunno, I'm sure this sounded like a dyslexic monkey typed it, but I suck at explaining so I'll go away now. Try and guess what I meant. -The Lost Flock The Lost Flock is finding it's way. Scaffolding is like monkey bars for adults. Ferret  Location: Toronto  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 8 on 9/14/2003 7:51 AM >   From a personal point of view, I can respect murals for the time and thought that it takes to create some of them, but tags, no, there is nothing behind them, and no respect to the works of others. We've all seen beautiful murals spoiled by some jerk's tag. In the bigger view, they both provide a picture on society at that moment, and can express it's fears and concerns. Remember, we have learned more about what life was like for those in the Coloseum in Rome from the grafitti they left behind on the walls than from any ancient texts. Ricotta  Nobler Donor Location: Houston, TX Gender: Male De arimasu~  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 9 on 9/14/2003 10:58 AM >   ...Excuse me while I go play JSRF... ReAct  Location: Northern Jersey... For now. Gender: Male  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 10 on 9/14/2003 2:31 PM >   On another thread that had gone sorely off track (I'm afraid I helped contribute to it) a couple of people voiced the opinion that graffiti of any kind helped to enhance the atmosphere, that an ungraffitied wall was boring. In thinking about it: You see so many mindless, unattractive, illegible tags everywhere, that to me it's really shifted my perspective to exactly the opposite: I find graffiti very boring for the most part. It's all very monotonous and I do feel like it's being destructive to be destructive. I apply the same philosophy to graffiti as I do elsewhere in life: If you're gonna do something, do it right. Don't go and extend the effort to make something half assed, that's the next best thing to worthless. E.g.: If you're gonna go out with your buddies to do some graff. how about you either: Have something distinctive and unusual to say; have something distinctive and unusual to depict. Otherwise you end up with whole walls covered with a bunch of quick little single color tags that all look exactly like the one next to it, and the one over there. It ends up looking like a three-year-old just scribbled all over the room with some big-ass magic markers. If your tag doesn't even destinguish you from everyone else (quite the contrary), and it doesn't provide anything interesting to the world, what other function does it serve? Seems like mindless destruction to me. -ReAct "'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me." "That says '13.2kV.'" "Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...." Frost  Location: K.Dot Gender: Male No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 11 on 9/14/2003 6:01 PM >   Posted by SPEK click to view Okay, I'm not an graf artist or tagger, so I've got a question that I've been trying to figure out for a while now. How in the world do these guys tag the tops of those buildings like that? What the hell do they stand on?! I'm totally baffled by this. Same goes for some of those bridges and things, how do you guys do that? I just find it amazing that it's done! Oh and I voted #2. I don't like all tags, but those nicely done ones (bubbly letters and such) are cool. I've always said that my next business I'm hiring one or two graf artists to come paint the side of the building with something That's my 2 cents K-os Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. MacGyver  Location: St Paul, Minnesota Gender: Male "Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 12 on 9/14/2003 6:04 PM >   They hang over the edge from the top. Possibly using rollers with extendable telescoping handles. Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine "If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." Capone  Location: London, Ontario Gender: Male UEL  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 13 on 9/14/2003 6:09 PM >   Now I'm not a graf artist or tagger either... but for me it depends on the graf, and its location. I do like large murals and such far better than dumbass tagging. But basically, it's alright to me on a blank wall, under a bridge, or in a drain or something. I'd prefer not to see it in/on buildings, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good work there either, as much as I don't approve of it's location. So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... SPEK Photo  Location: Where you were not. "Chere cachère!"  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 14 on 9/14/2003 6:26 PM >   Posted by K-os Posted by SPEK click to view Okay, I'm not an graf artist or tagger, so I've got a question that I've been trying to figure out for a while now. How in the world do these guys tag the tops of those buildings like that? What the hell do they stand on?! I'm totally baffled by this. Same goes for some of those bridges and things, how do you guys do that? I just find it amazing that it's done! K-os They lie down on the roof and use paint rollers with extentions. Pour fins d'archives. WWW.EXPLORATIONURBAINE.CA Mr.Rat  Location: united states Gender: Male  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 15 on 9/14/2003 6:52 PM >   Posted by Krazy They hang over the edge from the top. Possibly using rollers with extendable telescoping handles. INo actually they have climbing gear most of the time and a lookout on the top of the bridge who gives a signal when someone is coming. I myself am a graffiti artist and I do many tags. But I mainly do them in alleys for two reasons. 1. Low risk factor of being caught 2. Come on. How fuckin ugly is a bigass dumpster? It needs smething to liven it up a little. I try to make my tags look cool though (using special ink which is silver and sparkly). Tunnel rats eat raw sewage. nominal  Location: Grimsby Gender: Male  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 16 on 9/14/2003 7:26 PM >   I definitely agree with ReAct's view and I think the view of most people here, judging by the poll. If it’s not a work of art we don't want to see it. This raises the question; at what point does a graf become a work of art rather then mindless vandalism? Tags in my opinion are the visual equivalent of a dog pissing on a tree or as ReAct put it "a three-year-old just scribbled all over the room with some big-ass magic markers." The only purpose of tagging a place is to satisfy an innate desire to mark one's territory. This can ruin the UE experience, whereas finding a mural while exploring can enhance make it even better because you know the intended audience is limited. So what are the elements that make a mural art and a tag vandalism? What makes anything art? Is it medium, subject, treatment or composition, where it’s displayed or the portrayal of an idea? Art is a mode of communication above all but I believe all the qualities above are required for something to truly be a work of art. A tag lacks of these qualities and communicates nothing, therefore a tag can ruin a plain surface that would other wise grow beautiful with age and decay. This is why a tag is vandalism. A tag is never a mural. SPEK although I won't deny that you have skill, painting your name really large on the side of a train does not communicate anything and lacks creativity. Sorry that’s not art, that’s a tag. But who I am I to go telling people what’s art and what’s not? (Please don’t answer ;) ) SPEK outlined a Hierarchy for graffiti, at what point do you guys think the change to art happens? Should size have anything to do with how the work is rated? Shane  Moderator Location: Bronx, NY Gender: Male  |  |  |  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 17 on 9/14/2003 9:51 PM >   I'd have to say that I only like exceptionally good murals. Tags and bubbly letters don't do much for me, and generally I prefer to see nothing at all inside/outside an abandoned building, I think it takes away from the place most of the time. As far as on blank concrete walls and things of that sort, then I don't mind as it can make it look better. "Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk nominal  Location: Grimsby Gender: Male  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 18 on 9/14/2003 10:08 PM >   For my view on a graf on the inside of a place I'd like to clarify that I believe location is important and the graf should be part of the location not painted on to it. For example, you come out of a tunnel into a pitch black room with four identical walls each with four indentical tunnel entrances including the one you came out of. Upon further inspection you notice each entrance features ornate brick work that is slightly different then the rest and you decide to take a short walk up and down each of them but when you come to the forth you walk right into the wall and realise you just tried to step through a mural. Mochi  Location: West Jordan, Utah Gender: Male Stare deep into a kitty's nose.  |  |  Re: The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post <Reply # 19 on 9/15/2003 3:52 AM >   Just for the record, I'm not touching this thread with a ten foot clown pole... >_< Mochi, it stay jammed under fender! JESUS SAVES!!! (And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!) UER Forum > Archived UE Main > The Inevitable Grafitti Morals Question Post (Viewed 1154 times) 1 2   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 171 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 741827716 pages have been generated.