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 kjones
  
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
Ninja? Or frightened little boy?
 |  | Wintertime UE
< on 10/2/2005 2:48 PM >
|  | | | The winter months are approaching (in the northern hemisphere). We all know that "cotton kills", but does anyone here have any other useful advice or warnings, from knowledge or real-life experience, concerning expeditions when it's cold out, when there's snow on the ground, when the staircase you sneak up is covered in black ice, etc.?
Forbidden fruit a flavor has
That lawful orchards mocks;
How luscious lies the pea within
The pod that Duty locks!
-Emily Dickinson on UE |
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Allva
  
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
I have my moments.
| |  | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 1 on 10/2/2005 11:57 PM >
| | | | Pretty much ,warm weather rules apply with colder temperatures. Except for warmer clothing...and greater numbers of transients found during impromptu UE ventures...So watch your butt.
Here in Texas I can't wait 'till cool front arrives...It's late September/early October and you can still fry an egg on a sidewalk. Makes any kind of exploration un-bearable. Come on cold front!
Life is hard, but it's harder when you're stupid. |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 2 on 10/3/2005 12:13 AM >
|  | | | UnderArmor cold gear, which is something I have been wanting to pick up.. other then that be carefull, move slow, and watch your footing
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 3 on 10/3/2005 12:29 AM >
| | | | Be careful on those snowy rooftops ... don't slip and wear heavy clothing because the wind chill can be killer 15 stories up! ~Grit.
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this_guy
Location: Chicago suburbs
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 4 on 10/3/2005 12:38 AM >
| | | | If you wear a bulky coat, be careful not to catch it on nails, glass, barbed wire, etc.
Use two pairs of gloves, one tight fitting that won't interfere with camera operation, the other for warmth.
Explore roofs and upper levels first, then after you've been out for a while, enjoy the relative warmth of ground floors and basements. Also keep in mind that you might be comfortable outside but will probably need to remove layers for basements and drains.
Ice shouldn't be much of a problem since you should be wary of your footing anyway, so even "black ice" is hard to not see. You should be more concerned about leaving tracks in snow that might reveal your way in, or, as grit1 said, slipping on ice under the snow.
"Every sound shall end in silence, but the silence never dies." - from Samuel Miller Hagemen, found written on the wall of an abandoned building |
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Allva
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
I have my moments.
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 5 on 10/3/2005 1:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by kjones
The winter months are approaching (in the northern hemisphere). We all know that "cotton kills", but does anyone here have any other useful advice or warnings, from knowledge or real-life experience, concerning expeditions when it's cold out, when there's snow on the ground, when the staircase you sneak up is covered in black ice, etc.?
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Oh,,,and stay in school.
Life is hard, but it's harder when you're stupid. |
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 6 on 10/3/2005 6:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by this_guy
If you wear a bulky coat, be careful not to catch it on nails, glass, barbed wire, etc.
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In the winter I wear this really cheap leather coat that you can find at Walmart or some convenience stores - it's tough, black and doesn't snag too badly. Also protection for bumps and scrapes. Explore in style! ~Grit.
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Warchyld
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Personal Text
| | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 7 on 10/3/2005 4:35 PM >
| | | | Something that I have learned over the years is not to overdress.
Sweat
If you wear too many layers, build up a nice sweat, then sit down for awhile... The sweat will get cold, and then make you cold. Too many layers leads to over exertion, over exertion leaads to sweating, the whole process is intensified from being too warm from excessive layers.
The best defense against this is planning. Depending on what kind of activity you will be doing, you may want to wear different clothing, and adapt different behaviors.
A. Constant movement.
If you are going to be constantly moving, wear enough to keep you warm, keep the wind out, and nothing else. Don't overdress. This should minimize sweat build up and exertion. Try to keep moving. Plan on limiting your mission time. If you stay out so long that your body can not keep your body warm any longer, you will get cold VERY quickly. This type of dress can be dangerous for those reasons. You may still build up sweat from being active, but it will not be nearly as much as it would have overdressing
B. No movement.
Gonna sneak around in a ghille suit? Bringing a photographer with you? Pile on the layers. Try and not to work up a sweat. Movement is severely limited due to bulk. You will get tired quickly if you have to exert lots of energy, not to mention start sweating. Just chill out and take your time moving around.
Layers
I will let somone else get behind the technical aspects of layers, what brands etc.. but the basic idea is this:
Wear breathable layers closer to your skin. a material that is rather pourus, and can let air move rather freely through it. The outer layers should be a shell. It should prevent most air from getting out, or in.
Your body will heat up the air close to your body. The Inner layer will allow the heated air close to your body, and let it move around somewhat. The shell will keep the cold air from getting in, and trap the warm air in.
Wind can take that warm air away from your body. Wind can be a larger foe than just plain cold. Water replaces the air next to your body. Those inner layers act like a sponge. Your body can heat up the water next to your body just like air, but it takes lots of effort to to so (especially if it is cold in the first place) And the body heated water can actually keep you warm... but as soon as you stop moving, it gets cold fast, and then bleeds the warmth from you quite efficiently. (same idea with sweat.) If you fall in cold water, you have limited time. Once you get warm, you may even feel allright. You may be warm, but don't be deceived. As soon as you stop moving, that water is going to get cold fast.
Lower temperature
when the temperature is hovering just below the freezing mark, or even just above zero F, You are in pretty good shape. When the temp starts dropping below zero, -10F, -20F, -30F, Not only do you have to worry about keeping your core temperature normal, and your exremeties in good shape, but you have to worry about keeping exposed skin from freezing. Frostbite. Windchill will expedite this process greatly. In conditions such as these, you should make sure all your skin is covered. Facemasks, scarves, maybe goggles (antifog), mufflers. For gods sake, keep the ears and nose covered. Mittens are adviseable.
Mittens are more efficiant at keeping your fingers warm than gloves. This is because when you put all your fingers together, they heat eachother. kind of a finger synergy thing going on. Obviously the trade off of using mittens rather than gloves is dexterity. If you do wear gloves, make sure they are not tight. leave a little play in the finger areas for heated air to circulate. make sure your gloves keep the wind out.
Ultimatley, It's not your clothes that keep you warm, its your body. The clothes help your body heat you more efficiantly, but your body is doing the work. If your body runs out of energy, not even the best winter clothing can keep you warm for long. Watch your energy level.
I always keep a spare pair of socks with me in cold whether expeditions.
"If you are not cheating, you are not trying" |
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mute
Location: Ottawa, ON
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 8 on 10/3/2005 9:34 PM >
| | | | Lightly touched on, but photography-specific tips here...
tight-fitting gloves to allow easy operation. You like how small all the damn buttons are, until you are wearing 2 layers of gloves trying to shoot! I take my gear snowboarding, so I guess I'm used to it a bit better.
lots of extra batteries. Anything that is powered will probably die repeatedly if you're out long enough. They return to a useful level after warming up against your body again. I am actually considering an external pack that wires into the camera but the batteries can be stuck inside close to your body, so one pack does the trick. Failing that (what I do now, much cheaper), pack 1 or 2 extra sets, and have them somewhere very warm/close to your body, but easily accessible and constantly swap them. Film is the safer choice. I haven't seen my digital SLR through a winter yet, but I trust my film body to withstand the cold (down to -30c) better then most digital options. The stated operating environment on most dSLR's is 0-40 celsius; I wouldn't feel comfortable taking it out past -10c.
airtight ziploc bags, for movement from warm to cold, and cold to warm. Condensation can build inside many camera parts if moved between extreme temperature ranges very fast. It just takes a ziploc bag per item and you're set. What's the cost, $2? This is more applicable to expensive gear that you want to last 5-15+ years AND still have resale value, without fungus/dust buildup inside the lenses after that time.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 9 on 10/3/2005 10:21 PM >
|  | | | Posted by this_guy
If you wear a bulky coat, be careful not to catch it on nails, glass, barbed wire, etc.
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I've always found it best, no matter what I'm wearing, to be careful not to catch it on nails, glass, barbed wire, etc...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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David E
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
Gender: Male
Do not believe everything you see on TV.
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 10 on 10/3/2005 10:48 PM >
| | | | Agree with the ziploc bag idea, condensation is a killer in electronics as we all know (also can kill gun barrels, rust). My question on this has to deal with the mention of cotton above, why is it a killer? PLease let me know as I have lots of cotton items. Thanks.
David
FREE THE UER 6! DOWN WITH UER LACKEYS! And to the mod that changed my sig, blow me! |
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this_guy
Location: Chicago suburbs
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 11 on 10/3/2005 11:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by David E
My question on this has to deal with the mention of cotton above, why is it a killer? PLease let me know as I have lots of cotton items. Thanks.
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Supposedly dry cotten is fine, but when wet it loses its insulative value and becomes heavy and abrasive.
Posted by Jester
I've always found it best, no matter what I'm wearing, to be careful not to catch it on nails, glass, barbed wire, etc...
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The only item of clothing I've ever had trouble with was a bulky winter coat.
"Every sound shall end in silence, but the silence never dies." - from Samuel Miller Hagemen, found written on the wall of an abandoned building |
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Random
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Gender: Male
Partially Retired
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 12 on 10/3/2005 11:38 PM >
| | | | and you wondered why fat people are always jolly... because we don't get cold!
Military field jackets are warm and are pretty tough, I've climbed allot of barbed wire in mine and the points just slide off it, instead of sticking in. I wear mine without the heavy inner liner, but I'm fat, so your mileage may vary.
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Plytheman
Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts
Obey The Deer
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 13 on 10/3/2005 11:57 PM >
| | | | When cotton gets wet it doesn't dry for a long time and having wet clothes is not only uncomfortable but dangerous. Thats how a lot of people get hypothermic when they get lost in the woods. Even if its a crisp fall day, if your clothes are wet you'll get mighty cold mighty fast.
I have a Carhartt jacket that with a hoody on underneath is warm enough and its tough enough that thorns and other shit dont bother me. Whenever you're outside in the winter, its all about layers.
I'm achin, I'm shakin, I'm breakin, Like Humans Do!!
-Byrne |
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kjones
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
Ninja? Or frightened little boy?
| | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 14 on 10/4/2005 1:55 AM >
| | | | Thanks guys, great stuff.
To all this, I would add that the most important thing is to: 1. Stay dry in the first place. Getting wet is your biggest problem when it's cold out. 2. Recognize the initial warning signs of hypothermia, a very serious problem even in relatively warm conditions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia is pretty good, but additional warning signs include (obviously) frostbite/frostnip, headaches, nausea/vomiting, and dehydration.
Forbidden fruit a flavor has
That lawful orchards mocks;
How luscious lies the pea within
The pod that Duty locks!
-Emily Dickinson on UE |
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Hazmat_USMC
Location: Glendale, AZ
Gender: Male
9-11-2001 Never forgive, never forget.
| | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 15 on 10/4/2005 4:41 AM >
| | | | Here's some advice...
Dress accordingly. Layer your clothes.
Personally, I wear a t-shirt, polypro top, fleece sweater, and some sort of waterproof or gore-tex jacket. My jacket has zippered vents under the armpits so your body won't overheat and start sweating.
Wear some good pants that provide warmth and some sort of waterproofing if necessary.
Gloves and a beanie are good ideas considering these are parts of your body where the most heat escapes.
Boots are a deffinate necessity, Waterproof, insulated, and good traction. If you're going to be walking around icy areas, I would recommend getting some cramp-ons. For those of you that don't know what those are, they're basically metal spikes that strap on to the outside of your boots.
No better friend, no worse enemy.
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Kelwyn
Location: DC Metro area
Gender: Male
Jackass of all trades.
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 16 on 10/6/2005 3:36 AM >
| | | | Dehydration is always a bigger problem than people expect in the winter. In general (at least around here... DC area), the air is a _lot_ drier than in the warmer months, so any sweat you build up evaporates faster. You'll also lose a fair bit just from breathing, moreso if you're moving around a lot and breathing heavily.
- Kel
"I worry that Jesus drinks himself to sleep when he hears me talk like this."
- Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird |
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NezMo
Location: Worcester, Massachusetts
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 17 on 10/6/2005 4:19 AM >
| | | | Wool. Wool is a great insulator. It is widely used because even when wet, it will still insulate. YOu can probably find a good tough sweater and pair of socks at an army navy store. Alsoi highly recommend Chilie's long underware. A bit expensive but well worth it. Same idea as underarmor just better quality.
Also, anyone ever do a drain in the winter? I just got into drains over the Summer and havnt seen em in the winter. Do they freeze or is it still running?
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critter
| | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 18 on 10/6/2005 4:32 AM >
| | | | Don't forget your footprints in the snow. I know someone that was busted because he forgot. Had a trail leading right up to his house.
PolyPro underwear is nice. Keeps you warm and wicks away the moisture.
[last edit 10/6/2005 4:40 AM by critter - edited 1 times]
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this_guy
Location: Chicago suburbs
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Wintertime UE
<Reply # 19 on 10/6/2005 4:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by NezMo
Also, anyone ever do a drain in the winter? I just got into drains over the Summer and havnt seen em in the winter. Do they freeze or is it still running?
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I wouldn't think drains would freeze. Regardless of conditions outside (unless you live really far north in Alaska or parts of Canada), the ground around a drain should be about 10C / 50F. I don't know how much of this heat would escape by means of convection, but if the drain was cool during hot summer days, it should be warm during cold winter days.
"Every sound shall end in silence, but the silence never dies." - from Samuel Miller Hagemen, found written on the wall of an abandoned building |
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