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744 online
Server Time:
2024-05-13 22:12:10
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 TurboZutek
     
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
 |  |  |  | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 60 on 8/14/2005 4:25 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Caveman6666
That's phony pap. Real UE pics are shot as is, not dragging shit around into unnatural places and positions.
"Check out this wheelchair in this steam tunnel. Spontaneous!!"
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Wow, I never knew until today what a 'real UE pic' was, Caveman. Thanks!
While it's true what you are advocating can produce amazing pictures such as this:
/Stunning
I'm talking about a more general overview:
Now and again people like to setup pictures - it's a fact of life. I'm not advocating you take a wheelchair into a tunnel and claim you found it like that.
I don't 'setup' pictures often, but here's one I did:
It's fucking obvious to anyone looking at it we set it up, does that detract from it as a picture? No.
I could have shot these all separately as they were: and sent the viewer to sleep; I thought it was much more fun to suggest Rod Stewart was abusing his blondes in front of the fire, while Jesus watched (It's down to the viewer to decide the significance of the glass bowls).
But the point I was making overall (which you seem to have missed) was that's just another thing you might not be able to readily do when you ask permission, or subscribe to a tour!?
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 61 on 8/14/2005 4:53 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
It's fucking obvious to anyone looking at it we set it up, does that detract from it as a picture? No.
I could have shot these all separately as they were: and sent the viewer to sleep; I thought it was much more fun to suggest Rod Stewart was abusing his blondes in front of the fire, while Jesus watched (It's down to the viewer to decide the significance of the glass bowls).
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There is no reason why a person should be bitching over how a photograph is set up. It's quite sad when one user professes this onto other people as if it is fact.
But the point I was making overall (which you seem to have missed) was that's just another thing you might not be able to readily do when you ask permission, or subscribe to a tour!?
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Actually, I have been able to do everything that I can imagine on these "permission" based events and "tours"; Fostoria, which I asked permission to, was about as a free-for-all as you can get. Waverly Hills TB, which I requested permission and got a tour (that just identified the rooms for future idenfitication), I was allowed to move what objects that remained that would make a photograph better.
Your point is? You drag dead horses and continue to beat them.
Abandoned |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 62 on 8/14/2005 5:12 PM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
Your point is? You drag dead horses and continue to beat them.
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My point was (and I'll explain it to you as you seem a little bit below par in the mental powers dept.) that when you ask permission and get a tour, occasionally you have less freedom when if you just 'went' of your own volition.
I can't expect you to understand that though, because it would appear all your permission tours went really well and you had a free run.
But it seems to me that free run is more an exception rather than a rule with asking permission. certainly all the 'permission' expos. I've attended had been at least a bit restrictive.
Just to illustrate this:
One of my favourite pics (Mostly for the memory it evokes) - I got it by climbing onto a dangerous roof with the help of PlasticDel and Mutt... I could never have got this photo on a 'permission' based tour - the property owner would have to be stupid to allow it, lest I fall off, die and then sue him/her.
That's all I'm trying to say - I hope dumbing it right down for you helped?
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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maZe
  
Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| |  | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 63 on 8/14/2005 5:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
die and then sue him/her.
Chris...
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Off topic but dying and then suing sounds interesting.
Ok. Here's my point. the LDB is fine with me. People, stop bitching and start exploring! Or explore more!!!
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 64 on 8/14/2005 5:49 PM >
| | | | Posted by maZe
Off topic but dying and then suing sounds interesting.
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It wasn't that good and they only awarded my estate £20.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Caveman6666
Location: NY
| |  | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 65 on 8/15/2005 1:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
While it's true what you are advocating can produce amazing pictures such as this:
/Stunning
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If you had any clue what that was, its relevance would be obvious. I'd clue you in, but someone whose vocabulary consists of 'bukkake' and little else wouldn't see the point anyway.
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 66 on 8/15/2005 2:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by Caveman6666
If you had any clue what that was, its relevance would be obvious. I'd clue you in, but someone whose vocabulary consists of 'bukkake' and little else wouldn't see the point anyway.
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Looks like a poor attempt to block off a tunnel that's been reopened at the top?
Like I really give a fuck.
And while my vocab. does in fact often include the word Bukkake, the exploration part of my CV has this key figure:
2197 files in 99 albums.
All mine.
Fuckstick!
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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greywolf45
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Male
Resident UER pain in the ass
| |  | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 67 on 8/15/2005 6:08 AM >
| | | | There are as many different definitions of "UEing" as there are people who engage in this hobby. It's a fun, and exciting hobby. That's how i see it.
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"
Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Jupiter
Moderator
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
Boffo's alright... for now.
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 68 on 8/15/2005 10:06 AM >
| | | | Well, since everyone seems to be chiming in...
First off I'll say that yes, it IS more exciting when you find a place yourself. A few places in Toronto I've found, only later to find they were already in the DB, to a bit of disappointment. When I found the place in Cornwall, and it wasn't on here, I felt a bit of pride. 
But at the same time, if someone chooses to use the DB as a shopping list, I don't see why anyone cares as long as that person is trusted (full member system), and won't damage the buildings. How does someone going into a location you found hurt you in any way? Whether you consider them real "explorers" or not is subjective. Everyone's definition of that is different, and people do UE for different reasons. Many are into the photographic element. Now if someone wants to take beautiful pictures of an abandoned building for others to enjoy, why should we try to stop them because they don't want to look for the buildings? Hell, even though I understand why we don't post entry points on UER, I have no qualms telling someone I know EXACTLY how to get into a building if I know I can trust them. They are able to have fun taking their photos, and everyone's happy.
So I really don't understand the prevailing sentiment on here which seems to be to try to force what you enjoy onto others. You find the finding the buildings a big part of the experience? Great. If you're having fun with that, it's important. But I still haven't heard a legitimate reason WHY people are trying to eliminate "tourist" explorers. Them going to the location you found doesn't detract from the location. If they'd prefer to just look at locations that are in the DB, and they enjoy it, we should be happy. They're having fun without damaging the buildings... what's wrong with that?
The only argument I can forsee is that by taking away the location info in the DB, it'll force those who use it as a shopping list to go find new locations. But if we don't have a DB to share these locations, what does that really accomplish? Additionally, I'm sure that many who use the DB as a shopping list aren't actually WILLING to go driving around for hours looking for something. And whether you think less of them isn't a valid reason to not let them go to these places. It's been established before that UER isn't going to force people into certain moral behaviour, but through a moral judgement that those who are considered tourists are "lesser" explorers, any info that would help them is bad.
I don't know, this whole thing just seems really stupid to me. It's like being a music fan and not liking U2 anymore because they've gotten crappier. But instead of just stating your opinion and being done with it, trying to force U2 fans to stop listening to the band. If something causes no harm to you, such as U2 fans and "tourist explorers", there's no reason to eliminate something that brings them joy.
Abandoned Planet |
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Chuck
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 69 on 8/15/2005 3:18 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
You quote a completely irrelevant article by Ninjalicious. Even Ninjalicious agrees that urban exploration is what you make it -- Many of the photos and stories in his journal were taken on permission explorations. I should know, since I was there for some of them.
However, once again you have ignored my questions and veered this thread off-topic. So I will ask them again, for the third time in this thread:
How is the LDB different from information available on many other sites, including but not limited to Infiltation, UEC, Wraiths, abandoned online; and how do you propose "fixing" it, so that it's not a "bastardization" as you put it?
Please answer me this time, instead of simply ignoring it.
-av
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Av,
I don't think the quote is irrelevant. It kind of sums up, not directly, what exploring is all about. I think many people have lost sight of what urban exploring is. It really has become watered down. Of course I have had permission to do some photos, but I wouldn't call it urban exploring. It is probably more of a form of Industrial/Commercial/Medical Archeology.
I'll try to sum up what is wrong with the LDB to me. I have not answered many, because others have.
1. Part of urban exploring is the hunt, finding a place on your own, scouting a location. Sure, others may find a location, but it is done on a local level, with a local group of trusted individuals. The LDB eliminates all of these aspects. Other web sites do have the same info, but they are not "One stop shopping" like the UER LDB.
2. The LDB is used as a trophy case by many people here. I don't think that was ever the point of Urban Exploring.
3. The LDB breaks down the trust level at a local level among groups. You really don't have to meet other explorers anymore or build trust bonds with them.
4. The LDB promotes an illegal activity wich may result in the closing/sealing/demolition of a location.
5. The LDB promotes minors entering locations. If they are there while I am there, and the authorities arrive, I very well may be screwed based on "Guilt by association".
There are more, I just can't think of them right now. You've read what others have posted besides me. I don't know what else to tell you. It's like I posted before, we just have to agree to disagree on this subject. I've made my point clear, as have others. Some moderators seem to understand the situation, like Jester. I guess if you don't understand what I am trying to say, maybe ask them.
Later,
Chuck
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands. - Clint Eastwood |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 70 on 8/15/2005 3:22 PM >
|  | | | It doesn't matter if someone is the first to find a place or not. It's the act of finding a place, an integral part of exploring is discovery, and when you hand everyone the locations in a tour guide, that's gone. Working towards a goal gives a sense of acomplishment and the feeling of success for your effort. Being handed a list with directions removes that from the equation as well.
Trusted ? Trusted does not mean that everyone of full member status is someone I would trust. And if you do simply trust anyone and everyone with full membership then you're going to be in for some rude awakenings.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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seicer
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 71 on 8/15/2005 3:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chuck
I don't think the quote is irrelevant. It kind of sums up, not directly, what exploring is all about. I think many people have lost sight of what urban exploring is. It really has become watered down. Of course I have had permission to do some photos, but I wouldn't call it urban exploring. It is probably more of a form of Industrial/Commercial/Medical Archeology.
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Chuck, it is one user's opinion on the subject. The writer of what his defination of urban exploration is, is his *own* opinion, no one else's. You fail to see that.
1. Part of urban exploring is the hunt, finding a place on your own, scouting a location. Sure, others may find a location, but it is done on a local level, with a local group of trusted individuals. The LDB eliminates all of these aspects. Other web sites do have the same info, but they are not "One stop shopping" like the UER LDB.
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And because some people find a location and post it, I can explore it and find details that they may have missed. Or if a friend posts a location to the LDB that was scouting, I could find a way in or find the owner. I would have not known several locations if it was not for the LDB.
2. The LDB is used as a trophy case by many people here. I don't think that was ever the point of Urban Exploring.
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I fail to see people toting their trophies around on UER. Please direct me to posts where people are essentially waving around their collective trophies.
3. The LDB breaks down the trust level at a local level among groups. You really don't have to meet other explorers anymore or build trust bonds with them.
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And UER is not the epitome of urban exploration either. There are dozens upon dozens of web-sites devoted to abandonments, draining and so forth.
4. The LDB promotes an illegal activity wich may result in the closing/sealing/demolition of a location.
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Urban exploration is not considered illegal. Trespassing and breaking into buildings IS illegal. Big difference.
5. The LDB promotes minors entering locations. If they are there while I am there, and the authorities arrive, I very well may be screwed based on "Guilt by association".
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Hardly. If that was true, I should have brought my 10-year old neighbor down the street because he views the site often and according to your logic, I would have brought him into all of my locations by now.
What a person does is their own choosing. If they want to risk trespassing and bringing a minor along, then thats their fancy.
There are more, I just can't think of them right now. You've read what others have posted besides me.
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Oh, please continue.
Abandoned |
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Chuck
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 72 on 8/15/2005 3:33 PM >
| | | | Fuck Off seicer!!
The post was not addressed to you!!
You are just trying to make the situation worse.
You may even be a prime example of what is wrong with UER!
Reply all you want to my posts in the future, I will ignore them.
Chuck
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands. - Clint Eastwood |
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Avatar-X
 
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 73 on 8/15/2005 4:14 PM >
| | | | Thank you for finally replying.
Posted by Chuck
1. Part of urban exploring is the hunt, finding a place on your own, scouting a location. Sure, others may find a location, but it is done on a local level, with a local group of trusted individuals. The LDB eliminates all of these aspects. Other web sites do have the same info, but they are not "One stop shopping" like the UER LDB.
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If I'm looking for a place to explore in Toronto, I can easily find that information on many other websites. Infiltration is a good example, or UECanada. The fact that the LDB has places in Australia doesn't matter to me if I'm looking for places in Toronto.
I've personally never derived any enjoyment from spending 3 hours driving around in circles trying to find a really cool place. For me, the joy is in seeing the place, not in finding it.
Also, once I've found a new place, I'd like as many people to see it as possible... allow them to share in the joy that I have experienced. Nothing is served by hoarding it to myself.
2. The LDB is used as a trophy case by many people here. I don't think that was ever the point of Urban Exploring.
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I don't really see any evidence of that, but what I do see is much trophy-casing going on by many explorers. How many explorers do you know that say "I was in *there*" and point to some extremely difficult inf? I know that I do it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. A difficult inf should be rewarded with respect.
3. The LDB breaks down the trust level at a local level among groups. You really don't have to meet other explorers anymore or build trust bonds with them.
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UER cannot force you to trust anyone. It is your perogative as to who you consider your friends, be they UER members or not. I can tell you, however, that UER has put me in touch with people who live hundreds of kilometres away, and whom I consider close friends. I'd have never met these people if I only met local explorers.
4. The LDB promotes an illegal activity wich may result in the closing/sealing/demolition of a location.
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As seicer said, Urban Exploration is not illegal. The LDB on it's own does not "promote" anything -- it is merely a repository of information. However, I think what you are trying to say with this point is that placing a location in the DB will get it sealed.
It is up to the poster of the information to decide how risky the location is and whether or not it is something they'd like to make available to UER members. Nobody is forced to add information to the LDB.
5. The LDB promotes minors entering locations. If they are there while I am there, and the authorities arrive, I very well may be screwed based on "Guilt by association".
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Once again, the LDB does not "promote" anything on its own. If you explore with minors and are charged for it, that is your decision -- you decided to explore with the minors.
I don't expect you to agree with me regarding the LDB. Rather, what I'd like to see from you is some mutual respect, and an understanding that while the LDB may not be right for you, it is perfect for others. This means not trolling and slamming the LDB every time the topic comes up.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 74 on 8/15/2005 5:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chuck
>It kind of sums up, not directly, what exploring is all about. I think many people have lost sight of what urban exploring is. It really has become watered down. Of course I have had permission to do some photos, but I wouldn't call it urban exploring. It is probably more of a form of Industrial/Commercial/Medical Archeology.
I'll try to sum up what is wrong with the LDB to me.
1. Part of urban exploring is the hunt, finding a place on your own, scouting a location. Sure, others may find a location, but it is done on a local level, with a local group of trusted individuals. The LDB eliminates all of these aspects. Other web sites do have the same info, but they are not "One stop shopping" like the UER LDB.
2. The LDB is used as a trophy case by many people here. I don't think that was ever the point of Urban Exploring.
3. The LDB breaks down the trust level at a local level among groups. You really don't have to meet other explorers anymore or build trust bonds with them.
4. The LDB promotes an illegal activity wich may result in the closing/sealing/demolition of a location.
5. The LDB promotes minors entering locations. If they are there while I am there, and the authorities arrive, I very well may be screwed based on "Guilt by association".
There are more, I just can't think of them right now. You've read what others have posted besides me. I don't know what else to tell you. It's like I posted before, we just have to agree to disagree on this subject. I've made my point clear, as have others. Some moderators seem to understand the situation, like Jester. I guess if you don't understand what I am trying to say, maybe ask them.
Later,
Chuck
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Wow, I had NO idea the LDB could do all that AND more!
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Caveman6666
Location: NY
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 75 on 8/15/2005 8:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
And while my vocab. does in fact often include the word Bukkake, the exploration part of my CV has this key figure:
2197 files in 99 albums.
All mine.
Fuckstick!
Chris...
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Want a medal Mr. keyboard warrior?
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 76 on 8/15/2005 8:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by Caveman6666
Want a medal Mr. keyboard warrior?
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I dunno about him, but I'd like a medal thanks.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 77 on 8/15/2005 9:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by ednothing
Hey Jester, I bet these guys will let you borrow one of theirs.
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Oh, yeah, I guess you're done your "weekend male bonding" retreat with them eh ?
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Caveman6666
Location: NY
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 78 on 8/15/2005 9:14 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
I dunno about him, but I'd like a medal thanks.
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Sorry, medals are only for internet tough guy Scots who toss around vulgarities like an eight year old that just learned them.
However, if you happen to have 2197 files in 99 albums, I'll possibly reconsider, since that would make you super hardcore.
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 79 on 8/15/2005 9:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Caveman6666
Sorry, medals are only for internet tough guy Scots who toss around vulgarities like an eight year old that just learned them.
However, if you happen to have 2197 files in 99 albums, I'll possibly reconsider, since that would make you super hardcore.
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Well I have 11306 files on my site, though I don't have a clue how many are pictures... but I should still get an honorable mention or something. Maybe a paper hat...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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