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 Chuck
  
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 40 on 8/11/2005 9:21 PM >
|  | | | Posted by seicer
And to Chuck, you do not seem to be a credible person. Going about exploring abandonments is the safest when you ask permission as you will not have a fear of getting arrested. I don't see how you can dispute this, but seeing as you will only continue the flaming, I leave my stance as is.
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Well, you don't know me, I think others that do would disagree!!
So, seicer...for being anti-flame that was a blow-torch you just aimed at me.
Getting permission is the same as paying admission!! Come on!!
I think we all should take a little time out, cool down, and review what Urban Exploring is!
Please read the following from Ninjalicious.
Have a great weekend,
Chuck
---------------
No Disclaimer
by Ninjalicious
On many urban exploration websites you'll see a disclaimer to the effect of "this site is for entertainment purposes only, trespassing is bad, do not try this at home." It's tempting for me to throw one of those disclaimers on this site too, just to be on the safe side, but I can't quite bring myself to do it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with urban exploration, at least not the type described here and on 95 percent of the other sites on the Internet, and I can't pretend I do. Genuine urban explorers never vandalize, steal or damage anything — we don't even litter. We're in it for the thrill of discovery and a few nice pictures, and probably have more respect for and appreciation of our cities' hidden spaces than most of the people who think we're naughty. We don't harm the places we explore. We love the places we explore.
While it's true that some aspects of the hobby happen to be illegal, it's important not to confuse the words "illegal" and "immoral". Laws against trespassing are like laws against being out after curfew: people get into trouble not for actually doing anything harmful, but simply because the powers that be are worried that they might.
Nor is exploration illegal simply because it's dangerous. The liability-conscious may disagree, but in my opinion, the hobby is no less of a personally assessed risk than smoking, driving or even riding a bike.
I find it sad that most people go through life oblivious to the countless — free — wonders around them. Too many of us think the only things worth looking at in our cities and towns are those safe and sanitized attractions that require an admission fee. It's no wonder people feel unfulfilled as they shuffle through the maze of velvet ropes on their way out through the gift shop.
Urban explorers strive to actually earn their experiences, by making discoveries that allow them to get in on the secret workings of cities and structures, and to appreciate fantastic, obscure spaces that might otherwise go completely neglected.
When you step away from the TV and think about it, humans are naturally curious creatures. We can't help but want to see the world around us; we're designed to explore and to play, and these instincts haven't disappeared just because most of us now live in large cities where parking lots have replaced common areas, malls have replaced city squares and the only public spaces that remain are a few grudgingly conceded parkettes.
This isn't the way things should be, of course, since cities should be for citizens, but urban explorers aren't generally fighters. We don't seek to smash the state, just to ignore its advice on a subject it doesn't really know much about. When we see a sign that says "Danger: Do Not Enter", we understand that this is simply a shorthand way of saying "Leaving Protected Zone: Demonstrate Personal Accountability Beyond This Point".
Urban exploration is free, fun and hurts no one. It's a thrilling, mind-expanding hobby that encourages our natural instincts to explore and play in our own environment. It encourages people to create their own adventures, like when they were kids, instead of buying the pre-packaged kind. And it nurtures a sense of wonder in the everyday spaces we inhabit or pass by that few local history books could ever hope to recreate. I've had some of the best moments of my life while exploring, and I can't recommend the hobby enough.
So, no disclaimer. Not for your entertainment only. Please do try this at home.
[last edit 8/11/2005 9:22 PM by Chuck - edited 1 times]
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands. - Clint Eastwood |
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seicer
  
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 41 on 8/11/2005 11:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chuck
Well, you don't know me, I think others that do would disagree!!
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You are not showing your true colors in these threads then.
Getting permission is the same as paying admission!! Come on!!
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No, actually you are comparing apples to oranges. Getting in legally means that you will not get arrested. There is that one worry gone. It is not "paying admission."
Waverly Hills TB is one that you pay admission to. It goes towards the renovation of the structures, of which has already paid for a renovated laundry facility that is being used as a residence. To trespass there is stupid because it has a 24 hour guard. So are you saying we beat up the guard, take his lunch money, and trespass when there are legal ways to do so?
I think we all should take a little time out, cool down, and review what Urban Exploring is!
Please read the following from Ninjalicious.
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And that is one user's opinion. I don't care what one or more people think that urban exploration is, because everyone's ideas are different. While some advocate tagging, removing items from buildings for resale on eBay, camping out in such buildings, trespassing or whatever, it is up to you. For me, I prefer the history behind a structure and to document whatever I can find, and locating the owner who most likely has a lot of information on such a structure and will most likely let me into a building (I have yet to be denied entry legally) builds up your credibility and stance. For example, through legal manners, I was allowed access into Levi Todd's home in Lexington, KY. It was nearing demolition but I documented the place, did further research, and found that Levi Todd was a cousin (IIRC) of Abe Lincoln. The house has now been restored after I gave my research information to the Bluegrass Trust.
*snip one user's opinion*
Abandoned |
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Avatar-X
   
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 42 on 8/12/2005 2:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by Chuck
Getting permission is the same as paying admission!! Come on!! |
You quote a completely irrelevant article by Ninjalicious. Even Ninjalicious agrees that urban exploration is what you make it -- Many of the photos and stories in his journal were taken on permission explorations. I should know, since I was there for some of them.
However, once again you have ignored my questions and veered this thread off-topic. So I will ask them again, for the third time in this thread:
How is the LDB different from information available on many other sites, including but not limited to Infiltation, UEC, Wraiths, abandoned online; and how do you propose "fixing" it, so that it's not a "bastardization" as you put it?
Please answer me this time, instead of simply ignoring it.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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AmityvilleMd
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 43 on 8/12/2005 2:39 AM >
| | | | I dont see what the problem is with the db. Maybe im the only one but I think its fine the way it is. Some people say too take down the address but all someone has to do is google the name of that place and there ya go. And its not any different than other site with the same setup such as the few Avatar mentioned. If people dont like the db they just shouldnt look at it or put anything on it.
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| |  | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 44 on 8/12/2005 11:38 AM >
| | | | Allow me to play Devils Advocate, the following may or may not be my actual opinion:
Ok, let's accept then that asking permission is UE.
* Taking photos from a distance is also UE.
* Taking pics through windows is UE.
* Reading a book about a building is UE.
Shite UE. Lazy UE. Boring UE.
But UE!
So all these habitual permission askers and window photographers are Urban Explorers... Just not very good ones.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 45 on 8/12/2005 1:18 PM >
| | | | You are 100% correct, turbo. Technically speaking, taking a photo from a public street of some boring city landmarks is UE. Writing a story about using the washroom at City Hall is UE.
I've been to a few places with permission. One such place is the Rankine Generating Station, where I just barely made it onto a rather exclusive tour, along with Kowalski and Speedboy. So I obtained photos of an active power plant.
Does the fact that I had permission make this building any less interesting? Are the photos boring simply because I was in a tour group?
Some people easily forget that Urban Exploration really has nothing to do with trespassing.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 46 on 8/12/2005 1:35 PM >
| | | | Aye Av, but do you ALWAYS ask permission?
I've been to a few places on a permission basis also - and had to stick to a 'tour'... I didn't get the half of what I actually wanted out the location.
At least not until I came back another time, without permission.
Building owner gonna give you permission to get on the roof?? permission to go everywhere and see everything?? Permission to stick a lamp on your head?? permission to setup the 'props' inside the building just the way you like it for a photo? He going to wait around for an hour while you bracket shots - or just plain spend a lot of time in your favourite bit??
No? Well, you ain't getting the full deal.
Sure, permission sometimes is fine... All the time??? Lame.
Chris...
PS: Pictures through windows when you can, with a little thought and effort get inside? Lamest of the fucking lame.
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 47 on 8/12/2005 1:37 PM >
| | | | No, of course I don't always ask for permission. It's more usually the norm that I don't.
And yes, window shots are lame. Check out the galleries uploaded by a member named Octane.
But all of this is beside the point: Lame or not, it's still UE.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 48 on 8/12/2005 1:40 PM >
| | | | ex·plore (ĭk-splôr', -splōr') pronunciation
v., -plored, -plor·ing, -plores.
v.tr.
1. To investigate systematically; examine: explore every possibility.
2. To search into or travel in for the purpose of discovery: exploring outer space.
3. Medicine. To examine for diagnostic purposes.
v.intr.
To make a careful examination or search: scientists who have been known to explore in this region of the earth. |
I don't see 'going on a tour' mentioned?
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 49 on 8/12/2005 1:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
2. To search into or travel in for the purpose of discovery:
I don't see 'going on a tour' mentioned?
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Huh...
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 50 on 8/12/2005 2:06 PM >
| | | | Thankfully, our hobby is not found in a dictionary.
Anyway, let's get this post back on topic. This is not the place to discuss whether or not going on a tour is to be called "urban exploration".
-av
[last edit 8/12/2005 2:08 PM by Avatar-X - edited 1 times]
huskies - such fluff. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 51 on 8/13/2005 5:53 AM >
|  | | | Posted by micro
I could care less if anyone wants to use the DB as a "tourist guide". While a great deal of the places I visit are the result of my own legwork, I don't have a problem with those who go to places after seeing them in the DB. I realize that not everyone has access to a car to be able to drive around looking for things or even has the time to be able to do such a thing in the first place. Exploring should be about exploring the buildings themselves, not about who finds them first. I mean, other than Jester, who seriously gives a fuck?
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Do you need to be an ass ? I wasn't even participating in how this played out, yet you have to bring my name into it ? Get the stick out of your ass and piss off, i'm tired of your shit.
Fine. Here's my view.
The shopping list, more commonly called the LDB, is great for people that are too lazy to do anything but want to be a trendy urban explorer. It lets them just look places up in a second and have to put the absolute minimum effort into it. It's got nothing to do with who finds something first, but it sure seems like it the way people argue about ownership of their ldb sites.
Explore.
1. To investigate systematically; examine.
2. To search into or travel in for the purpose of discovery.
If you don't have time to look for places, then you're not fucking exploring, you're a tourist.
[last edit 8/13/2005 5:57 AM by Jester - edited 1 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 52 on 8/13/2005 7:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
If you don't have time to look for places, then you're not fucking exploring, you're a tourist.
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So, Jester, have you personally found every single place you've ever explored? Because if not, you're just "a tourist" in your own words.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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greywolf45
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Male
Resident UER pain in the ass
| |  | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 53 on 8/13/2005 9:24 AM >
| | | | Why not leave the LDB as it is?
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"
Martin Luther King Jr. |
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TurboZutek
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| | | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 54 on 8/13/2005 9:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
So, Jester, have you personally found every single place you've ever explored? Because if not, you're just "a tourist" in your own words.
-av
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I expect Jester (like me) if he didn't personally find somewhere; has talked with people, gained their trust and been told about locations. You know that thing.. Research!??
This also gave whoever told Jester the information an opportunity to check he wasn't a complete asshat.
While it's less work than finding it yourself, it's still exploring.
Could be??
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 55 on 8/13/2005 12:03 PM >
| | | | the LDB isnt just used by tourists as some of you suggest I use it a lot and every location I have added was a real quote unquote exploration no matter what anybody that wasnt there says and required some effort, mapwork and research not to mention risk to my own neck and or ass in some cases
but lets say this accusation is correct and the people that ONLY VIEW the LDB dont have the nads or the ability or opportunity to go to some of the locations we created (I like the word added better here)but whats wrong with them just looking??? that doesnt take away from all you real macho ninja bad ass explorers now does it, I mean how is that harming anyone? or any location? you control that the trust system controls who can see a sensitive location right?
every Sunday (and Monday night) millions of people who never played football gather to cheer and high five each other over a game they cant play, I would venture to say 90% of all football fans never hit the pads, never did 2-a-days, probably never got hit or knocked down by another human being running at full tilt down the field but that doesnt mean they cant be bloodthirsty rabid fans. (I work with a bunch of guys that play "fantasy football" geez...talk about lame)thats why I used this lame analogy. the point is I understand why some explorers may feel theres some detraction from their accomplishments, but Im telling you there is not. I enjoy sharing the places I find and the comments from those that view my photos (in most cases) hey even the negative feedback can be useful.
therefore I support the LDB in its current format I have no constructive criticism to offer because I dont feel the need to criticize it in anyway maybe if the terminology was changed from "creator" to primary contributor or something less proprietary, I mean shit very few of you people are the first in most of these places anyway just the first to photograph them for this website maybe?
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 56 on 8/13/2005 4:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
So, Jester, have you personally found every single place you've ever explored? Because if not, you're just "a tourist" in your own words.
-av
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There is a huge difference between using the shopping list to find places to explore and actually doing research and looking for places. There's also a big difference between someone giving you a tip and saying "hey, i've always wondered what's in that place it would be awesome to see it on your site if you could do it" and having an ldb entry to plan your itinerary from.
Out of everything on my site, I've personally discovered at least 90% through hours upon hours of research and hours and hours of driving/walking/hiking all over the place to try to track the places down or just in the hopes of randomly coming across places. A couple of places have been from tips from fans. Otherwise it's all me or other wraiths researching and searching for places.
The shopping list effect is to turn everyone that's too lazy to actually look into uber 1337 urban explorers making them think that because they followed their tour plan to the letter, they are now experts.\
People also care a lot more about something when they've had to acomplish something to get to see it/find it. When things are handed to people, there isn't the same connection and caring about a place. It's like comparing the guy who worked his ass off to come up from nothing to make his fortune and a kid that grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth spoiled, one understands effort and is thankful for what he's got while the other expects everything be handed to him like he deserves it by doing nothing.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Sinister Crayon
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
| | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 57 on 8/14/2005 12:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by greywolf45
Why not leave the LDB as it is?
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My point exactly.
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fedge
Location: Gaud Corners, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
you blight up my life™®
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 58 on 8/14/2005 1:57 AM >
| | | | | LDB isn't a RESOURCE, it is a TOOL, plain and simple. YOU are the resource, *I* am the resource - *WE* are the resource and the LDB is just a tool we can use to make it simple and easy for us to work in a cooperative manner. |
he Urban Exploration Resource is a website which offers many resources to the average urban explorer. A large forum, spread across several websites, allows the community to exchange ideas.
The Location Database allows anyone in the community to create, update, and comment on a specific Location. A Location is defined as a building, drain, tunnel ... essentially any location where UE might take place.
18-odd Years Of UER-ing! |
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Caveman6666
Location: NY
| | | Re: Request for Comment on New LDB Feature
<Reply # 59 on 8/14/2005 12:58 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
permission to setup the 'props' inside the building just the way you like it for a photo? |
That's phony pap. Real UE pics are shot as is, not dragging shit around into unnatural places and positions.
"Check out this wheelchair in this steam tunnel. Spontaneous!!"
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
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