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750 online
Server Time:
2024-05-15 23:02:04
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 DjMalign
      
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Gender: Male
Sexy, sexy, sexy
 |  |  | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 20 on 6/21/2005 9:39 PM >
|  | | | goddamn the plot thickens. So its a money thing? that's so awesome. Might as well have a book called "Draining in australia: your essential guide to being an uber explorer" for the Consumer Whore masses
I hate all of you |
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parallax
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Gender: Male
Cave Clan are go!!
| |  | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 21 on 6/21/2005 10:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by Panic!One of the first thing that repressive regimes such as Naziism and the Bath Party do is censor and control information.
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Godwins Law - you lose.
Would this not also include the entire idea behind the level 3 system? Control of informatiom? Given only to those who are trusted?
For those that may have missed the original thread, and are now hypothesising exactly what locations were posted.
There was a mixture of:
Drains, Cavities, Topside and Bridgerooms.
7 of the GPS locations would be useless to anyone without a manhole key (Melbourne and Sydney). 2 locations are not accessible without MH keys, Water board keys, crowbars and the help of atleast 2 friends. 1 is subject to cave-ins. And 1 of those locations holds the shrine to world renowned urbexer <predator> which we would not like to see trashed, and has already had an attempt made on it by Sydney Water to lock it down.
It is true that the Cave Clan does not "own" any these locations, but we take the responsibility upon ourselves to make sure each location discovered as a group stays as accessible for everyone for aslong as possible.
Sydney alone has over half a thousand accessible locations stored in our database (over 1500 across Asutralia and growing daily), each one a direct result of Clan members working and pooling information together for the benefit of each other and those who wish to join us.
Whilst this may seem to have largely political overtones considering the past history between the Cave Clan and Panic!, it is solely in the interest of protecting locations for all urbexers in Australia and those who wish to come here.
Cave Clan Australia
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parallax
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Gender: Male
Cave Clan are go!!
| | | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 22 on 6/21/2005 10:18 PM >
| | | | PS. Where has this money thing come from?
I call bullshit on that one Panic!
Cave Clan Australia
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Avatar-X
 
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 23 on 6/21/2005 10:25 PM >
| | | | Just as a sidenote -- The thread posted by panic was Public (Viewable to all, including search engines. He neglected to keep it private.)
The level 3 system does not override the rule about entry details. That rule is there for two purposes:
1. So that property owners do not seal the place up cause they know the entrance
2. So that there's some challenge in finding the way in.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 24 on 6/22/2005 2:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by Panic!
The fact is, you guys SELL this information. That, and control are the sole reasons why you don't want it on the web. You MAKE MONEY out of selling location information. And you'll use whatever excuse or reason you can find to control that information so you can continue to sell it. And since I've brought that information recently using a fake name and addres, I know you sell that information to anyone, not just people you know.
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I feel I should make a comment on the above quote.
Making and distributing the list for 'profit' and nothing else is complete rubbish.
The location lists were $2 each to cover costs. When you consider they can be up to 20 double sided A4 pages plus the postage being $1, $2 hardly covers the cost to put it together.
There is a larger DrainGuide that I made that I sell for $10, but once again it is longer than 100 pages and has not been in print for more than 5 years.
Finally, we haven't sold any location lists for years now. They go out with Il Draino subscriptions and the last one with Locations was "The Bible" issue (#66) which came out in 2002. I'm pretty sure any subscribers can back this point up if need be.
So if you purchased them under a fake name, you must have purchased them from a fake Cave Clan.
I agree we don't own the locations and I think you'd find that it's fairly easy to get locations to the drains we explore. But try and put yourself in our position where many of the locations were discovered by Cave Clan members and brought to the attention of others who then turned a good location into a trashed one. We are now much more careful about the locations we explore, something we learnt from our mistakes.
I think there easily could be a drain list on UER, but there are a few locations that would be shut down if people explored them recklessly or just started cutting locks because they don't know the discreet way in.
So to say that we do it to solely make profit, that is totally 100% wrong. The only thing I have ever made profit out of is the Cave Clan videos and it's so small a profit that it only slightly makes up for the money lost making Il Draino.
I think Brian McHugh would have something to do with drain locations not being on the Net. Even Panic took his drain locations off his website after the child drowned.
The terrorism thing is another thing altogether that is changing the way we distribute locations.
Once again, yes we don't own them, but many people in the Clan just got sick of graffitists or vandals getting a hold of the locations and ruining them. Known explorer's that visit Australia are always given locations and treated with respect.
In Melbourne we say Jail 
I hope this dies off because it's just part of the same old pattern.
Cheers,
Doug.
PS. Come to Australia to explore and we'll give you our location lists, show you around, offer or find free accommodation for you, all for the price of a beer
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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ColdWater
Location: boston
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 25 on 6/22/2005 2:26 AM >
| | | | Do you really want any random shithead who searches google for a location to have uer.ca come up with all entries and necesary information? Im not saying you shoudlnt help people out, but you really need to be discretional about it.
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 26 on 6/22/2005 2:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by DjMalign
goddamn the plot thickens. So its a money thing? that's so awesome. Might as well have a book called "Draining in australia: your essential guide to being an uber explorer" for the Consumer Whore masses
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No, the plot becomes fiction
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 27 on 6/22/2005 4:00 AM >
| | | | I just thought I'd post this PM (although it's not really personal) here as I don't want it used against me later.
Hi Panic,
I would like to end our contact again as it is too frustrating trying to stay in the good books with you.
I don't have the time for the regular problems that seem to keep popping up.
I think I realise that you will always have problems with the Cave Clan.
I also agree that maybe Plax could have asked you in a nice way if you could remove the locations, but it was seen as a serious breach to many and Plax acted on it.
I think, as far as you and I go, we should just leave it as it is.
This is not an angry post.
My hair is turning grey.
I surrender
Doug
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 28 on 6/22/2005 5:08 AM >
| | | | I'll say I agree on this. A big part of what I like about draining is looking for a way into the drain. Posting the GPS of the entry takes the fun out of it. Its better just to say "theres a drain under such and such streets/properties, you might find a way in in the such and such area". I don't really see a security problem with posting co-ordinates, but I see how it can ruin the fun. UE should be about fun, really.
[last edit 6/22/2005 5:08 AM by Stewie - edited 1 times]
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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Panic!
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 29 on 6/22/2005 6:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Doug
Making and distributing the list for 'profit' and nothing else is complete rubbish.
The location lists were $2 each to cover costs. When you consider they can be up to 20 double sided A4 pages plus the postage being $1, $2 hardly covers the cost to put it together.
There is a larger DrainGuide that I made that I sell for $10, but once again it is longer than 100 pages and has not been in print for more than 5 years.
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Ahh, but if they were online, there would be no need to charge money for them.
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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Plytheman
Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts
Obey The Deer
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 30 on 6/22/2005 7:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by Particle Man
I'll say I agree on this. A big part of what I like about draining is looking for a way into the drain. Posting the GPS of the entry takes the fun out of it. Its better just to say "theres a drain under such and such streets/properties, you might find a way in in the such and such area". I don't really see a security problem with posting co-ordinates, but I see how it can ruin the fun. UE should be about fun, really.
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A wise person once told me, "There's no fun in UE"
I'm achin, I'm shakin, I'm breakin, Like Humans Do!!
-Byrne |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 31 on 6/22/2005 7:25 AM >
|  | | | That's it. None of you are allowed in the drains anymore.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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HDCase
Location: Catskills
Gender: Male
| | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 32 on 6/22/2005 8:24 AM >
| | | | Agreed. I wouldn't spend money on a list anyway. Half the fun is finding the site.
Get your cut throat off my knife. |
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Panic!
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 33 on 6/22/2005 8:36 AM >
| | | | Well, controversy aside, does anyone have a problem with me posting a list of GPS coordinates that would put you say, within 50 metres of a drain?
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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parallax
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Gender: Male
Cave Clan are go!!
| | | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 34 on 6/22/2005 9:14 AM >
| | | | Posted by Panic!
Well, controversy aside, does anyone have a problem with me posting a list of GPS coordinates that would put you say, within 50 metres of a drain?
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Ok, Doug and I have been having a chat and we realise that a compromise will hopefully bring this to an end. Although we no longer agree with the practice of publically listing locations, it is true that we cannot in fact "stop" you from doing it - even though your motive have changed from "free information" to a form of retribution.
Below is a list of locations we would like removed from the original public locations you posted. If they are in fact intended for new explorers, then I think even you would agree that these locations should not be attempted by the inexperienced.
1. DEATHSTAR
2. DREADNOUGHT
3. FORTRESS (pred's memorial)
4. DUM DUM BRIDGEROOM
5. BIG BASTARD
6. BURP
and all MH references. Since they would be useless to anyone without a MH key.
Is that cool with you?
Cave Clan Australia
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 35 on 6/22/2005 9:17 AM >
| | | | Posted by Panic!
Ahh, but if they were online, there would be no need to charge money for them.
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Ahh, but then children would get them and end up drowning... like Brian did.
and
Ahh, some people like having a book version of the location lists.
and
Ahh, then you'd find more locations getting trashed.
and
Ahh, etc etc...
Where are our badges?
Your signature "PS. Where has this money thing come from? I call bullshit on that one Panic! - Parallax.
The location lists were $2 each - Doug."
needs a line added that says - "Gee, does $2 even cover the costs? No"
[last edit 6/22/2005 9:20 AM by Doug - edited 1 times]
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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Panic!
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 36 on 6/22/2005 9:23 AM >
| | | | Posted by parallax
Is that cool with you?
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No problem.
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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Panic!
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 37 on 6/22/2005 9:29 AM >
| | | | I agree, there's some merit to those arguments, but if they were put in some reaonably secure location, like this site, or a password protected page, that would be okay.
Hmm, you want me to send a merit badge?
We really should have chatted about this beforehand eh? Probably would have saved a lot of this crap.
Posted by Doug
Ahh, but then children would get them and end up drowning... like Brian did.
and
Ahh, some people like having a book version of the location lists.
and
Ahh, then you'd find more locations getting trashed.
and
Ahh, etc etc...
Where are our badges?
Your signature "PS. Where has this money thing come from? I call bullshit on that one Panic! - Parallax.
The location lists were $2 each - Doug."
needs a line added that says - "Gee, does $2 even cover the costs? No"
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[last edit 6/22/2005 9:32 AM by Panic! - edited 1 times]
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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unikprodukt
| | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 38 on 6/22/2005 9:53 AM >
| | | | Just a quick point. It doesn't seem a good situation to be charging people, even if it is just to cover costs, like you said, "there is a 10 year minimum gaol sentence for anyone providing information (unknowingly or not) that could be used in a terrorist attack."
Somehow I think if you sold that info to someone it would look worse.
[last edit 6/22/2005 9:55 AM by unikprodukt - edited 1 times]
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keti
 
Moderator
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Female
#EA98DE
| | | Re: Censorship / UE information wants to be free.
<Reply # 39 on 6/22/2005 11:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by Plytheman
A wise person once told me, "There's no fun in UE"
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haha
clearly!
[23:38:31] <metawaffle> I'm surprised the NE forum doesn't fall off UER from the weight of thread locks
uer.ca is like / being in the mob / basically, a / ninja mob. - Aleksandar |
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