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Server Time:
2024-05-16 13:42:40
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 Anymouse
    
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
 |  |  |  |  |  | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 120 on 11/9/2004 10:40 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Gunslinger
I take direct offence to this comment. i tote guns and smoke pot, but i -NEVER- do either while I am exploring (and yes im Canadian, and yes i think i need a firearm) also i NEVER take anything from ANYWHERE. I also enjoy the photography part of UE, so i guess your terrible assumptions are WRONG.
*shakes head*
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I should have been more specific - but I was referring to those who do that while exploring. Or worse, those who don't explore - but tell the media they do that while the explore.
In that case, you are probably part of the 25% of photography people - you don't maintain a website of your own, you keep generally quiet and act responsibily - kudos to you!
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 121 on 11/9/2004 10:40 PM >
| | | | Perhaps the UE comminity should just say, some of us are people who break other laws so ue is really not so bad.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 122 on 11/9/2004 10:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by Burzum
This should be locked... it was a foolish idea from the start, and has since turned into yet another exciting opportunity for the UEA people to explain exactly why we all suck. Their comments are both offensive and demeaning, not to mention made up off the top of their heads.
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This has nothing to do with UEA. But if you are interested on making it such, do it by yourself.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Anymouse
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 123 on 11/9/2004 10:42 PM >
| | | | Yeah, I think we need to sit down and take a sober look at it. The next time I am approached by the media, I will say:
"Urban Exploration is for some people about taking pictures and appreciating places, and for some people about stealing, smashing, and finding places to smoke up. We don't want to offend the latter type, so we will embrace everyone"
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Gunslinger
Location: The Wasteland "Peel Region"
Gender: Male
| | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 124 on 11/9/2004 10:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
I don't see the fact that people discuss things as the problem, it's the inability to tolerate others views which is the threat. UE won't benefit from stagnating and losing communication...
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you can climb walls and now this, stole the thought right out of my head, i must agree 100%
[00:22:07] * Roadwolf prefers tampons over pads.
[19:42:01] <Roadwolf> i like penis.
17:04:43] <Avatar-X> i saw a husky outside earlier today 17:05:11] <Silent_Knight> you didn't get shagadelic on it, didya' Av? ;p [17:05:12] <Avatar-X> yeah i don't know why :P |
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Anymouse
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 125 on 11/9/2004 10:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
I don't see the fact that people discuss things as the problem, it's the inability to tolerate others views which is the threat. UE won't benefit from stagnating and losing communication...
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UEA meets every Wednesday night and discusses that which is important. We are not stagnating - in fact, we are much more successful than before. Online forums breed the sort of people that I don't want to explore with anyways. This has been positive for us.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 126 on 11/9/2004 10:59 PM >
|  | | | You don't understand what I mean Anymouse. UEA meeting is great, and i'm happy that you're exploring. But, you're the equivalent of a pool of water isolated from all the other pools out there, if you seperate yourself. Sharing information and ideas with people in other pools (areas) is what i'm talking about. There are undoubtedly idiots all over, but there are also a lot of people with valuable experience and knowledge to share. Closing channels to those people, I just don't see as beneficial.
As i've said before, use the forum as the helpful tool and benefit from it, but don't allow it to rule your life. I've seen you guys react as if the website somehow controlled you and caused all your misfortunes. If it dominated your life, that was of your own volition.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Anymouse
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 127 on 11/9/2004 11:06 PM >
| | | | Our forum enabled meth-addled rave promoters to tear the door off a building one building with a jeep and smash everything inside. Our forum enabled the same guys to burn down another building. Our forum was a constant source of flamewars resulting from misinterpretations.
If someone wants to contribute something useful, they can come to our wednesday night meets (It's at the Hop 'n Brew Pub on 12th at 8PM every Wed) - we make them quite well-known. At the meets, there's no fighting - even over the same issues between the same people.
Most of those other pools are filled with nasty shit - and I am hoping that Calgary's pool will not get as contaminated by it in the future.
[last edit 11/9/2004 11:09 PM by Anymouse - edited 1 times]
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 128 on 11/9/2004 11:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by Anymouse
Most of those other pools are filled with nasty shit - and I am hoping that Calgary's pool will not get as contaminated by it in the future.
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Good to know we're mostly all just nasty shit if we're not in Calgary. Thanks.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 129 on 11/9/2004 11:20 PM >
| | | | Here is an intersting article:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,14315,00.html
It desribes how the porn industry is fighting with identical issues.
They too are facing the spectre of larger law enforcement activity directed at them and are being forced to take one of several paths.
They are either going to have to self regulate and band together to fight for their rights.
Or they can keep doing whatever the fuck they want the right wing religious right in the US (who currently run the country) is going to regualte them or at least make their lives diffcult.
I concede, the UE community is going to do whatever the fuck it wants.
I do personally beleive that we all have a right to hang ourselves, I think it is in the American constitution.
[last edit 11/9/2004 11:33 PM by Skaught - edited 1 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Anymouse
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 130 on 11/9/2004 11:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
Good to know we're mostly all just nasty shit if we're not in Calgary. Thanks.
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Nope, we are always extremely welcoming and hospitable for visiting explorers. Just ask Slim Jim, Panic, Kowalski, Reduxzero.. We will take days off work and such just to go exploring with them.
The messageboards out there, though? Full of nasty shit. The explorers who are willing to make a trip out there, it takes a lot of resources and determination to do that - and the lame "70%" explorer will not put that much effort into it. So we only see the good ones.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 131 on 11/9/2004 11:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by Anymouse
The explorers who are willing to make a trip out there, it takes a lot of resources and determination to do that - and the lame "70%" explorer will not put that much effort into it. So we only see the good ones.
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So by that logic, an explorer that has committments and no money to spare or time off work, to get out there, can't be a good one. I haven't managed to get out there to see you guys, so I guess i'm not much of an explorer. Here I thought I was ok. This is so enlightening. 
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 132 on 11/9/2004 11:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
So by that logic, an explorer that has committments and no money to spare or time off work, to get out there, can't be a good one. I haven't managed to get out there to see you guys, so I guess i'm not much of an explorer. Here I thought I was ok. This is so enlightening.
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I think you took offence where none was intended Jester. He was merely drawing a comparison of armcahir explorers and urban explorers. Albeit witha bit of exageration.
[last edit 11/9/2004 11:32 PM by Skaught - edited 2 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Anymouse
Location: Calgary, AB
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 133 on 11/9/2004 11:42 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
So by that logic, an explorer that has committments and no money to spare or time off work, to get out there, can't be a good one. I haven't managed to get out there to see you guys, so I guess i'm not much of an explorer. Here I thought I was ok. This is so enlightening.
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Sound Statement:
A. Explorers who visit us are good explorers
B. Slim Jim, Panic, Kowalski, and Reduxzero have visited us.
Conclusion: Slim Jim, Panic, Kowalski and Reduxzero are good explorers.
Unsound Statement:
A. Explorers who visit us are good explorers
Conclusion: Explorers who do not visit us are bad explorers
It simply means that if they have not visited us - we do not know whether they are good are bad. The statement does not include them.
edit: http://www.nizkor....eatures/fallacies/
edit 2: I always find myself using "Straw Man". You can probably tell : )
[last edit 11/9/2004 11:49 PM by Anymouse - edited 2 times]
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FyRePhReAk
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Gender: Male
disassociative
| | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 134 on 11/10/2004 12:45 AM >
| | | | wow, this was an interesting read.
here's how I see it.
UER = UEA
NOT
UER<UEA or UER>UEA.
a general attempt at equality would do wonders.
I'm not taking sides, I don't do msg board politics, I do UE, there's a difference.
Walk away. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 135 on 11/10/2004 12:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by Anymouse
Sound Statement:
A. Explorers who visit us are good explorers
B. Slim Jim, Panic, Kowalski, and Reduxzero have visited us.
Conclusion: Slim Jim, Panic, Kowalski and Reduxzero are good explorers.
Unsound Statement:
A. Explorers who visit us are good explorers
Conclusion: Explorers who do not visit us are bad explorers
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Comparing what you said... to what you said.
Posted by Anymouse
The explorers who are willing to make a trip out there, it takes a lot of resources and determination to do that - and the lame "70%" explorer will not put that much effort into it. So we only see the good ones.
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Now, noting the highlighted section of what you wrote. If you only see the good ones, then what would those you do not see be left to choose from as their *status* in your eyes ?
Now, I've met Slim, Panic, Kowalski, Redux, and others, and I've never considered them any better an explorer simply because they have had enough money and free time to travel. They're good explorers, each in his own way, simply because they are good explorers. I still say much of the problems you see online is because you allow the forums to become an entity unto themselves and somehow dominate your life. It's a tool, no more, no less, simply to be used for what it can benefit you. Beyond that, it has no power.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Emma Peel
 
Location: Ahowah
Gender: Female
Ghosting you like you've never been ghosted before.
| | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 136 on 11/10/2004 12:57 AM >
| | | | Posted by Rev. Skaught
Your "sarcasm" wasn't sarcasm. And in following posts others will misinterpret you and attack me for my plot to control the world. Thanks.
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1) I do not believe you could accurately devise a plot to control the world. It is very difficult to do.
2) Don't take shit so seriously. I was obviously kidding. I'm not the kind of person to stand on the corner, holding the sign "THE END IS NEAR," screaming it in your face. So no, I don't think you're trying to control the world.
3) If I say something, you do not have the right to say whether it was sarcasm or not. And if I say I was being sarcastic, then I am correct. Because unfortunately, you are not in my head. Therefore you have NO IDEA whether I am being serious, sarcastic, or whether it is even me on the other side of this screen name. M'kay? Hopefully we can all understand that?
/Emma clears up a few things for that apparent "70%" of UEers who are probably classified as incompetent, too.
[last edit 11/10/2004 12:58 AM by Emma Peel - edited 1 times]
Sorry, I probably forgot my <sarcasm> tags. |
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HagensborgViking
 
Location: Fernwood, Victoria
Gender: Male
| | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 137 on 11/10/2004 1:58 AM >
| | | | Okay, this is my serious reply.
I'm not so sure that much more can be said on this topic. The Rev. has very good noble reasons for starting this thread. He knows, like most of us, that there is an increasing decomposition of ethics in this "hobby" and I certainly respect him no less for bringing it up. Here in Burnaby, there have been several sites that, over a seemingly short period of time, have been destroyed. A prime example of this is one of The Wraiths missions to infiltrate 3 DESIGNATED Burnaby heritage buildings that were awaiting full restoration. By the time Jester posted the sites on their website, all three houses had been trashed and looted of character elements SO BADLY that the city had to retract their designation and demolish all three homes. Two sites that I entered into the UE database myself have been really, and I mean Really fucked up.
This is not Urban Explorers that are smashing windows, salvaging mouldings or waving in security. These are dickheads. The decomposition of ethics isn't sprouting from this hobby, it's the planet. It's your city and its shitty parents. Its the world, not explorers.
I love the idea of only responsible people going out exploring, but it's going to take a fuck of a lot more that an awsome nametag and cap.
Just keep doing what you love doing, keep doing it with your responsible ethical friends or teammates or whatever, and when you have kids, teach them the value of other people's property.
THE END.
LOVE HV.
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The Hitman's Daughter
Account Closed
Location: ottawa, canada
Gender: Female
hot pavement.
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 138 on 11/10/2004 2:03 AM >
| | | | Inztead of refering to people who smash and break things in abandoned buildings as "gun toters" and "pot smokers", how about we just call them "people who smash and break things in abandoned buildings", or more simply, "idiots".
I smoke pot, and so do many other people on this forum. Does that mean we're mentally challenged? You seem to have this notion that we take one toke and then go wild with anger like something out of Reefer Madness and go tearing ass through abandoned buildings breaking everything in sight because we're high.
So I'm a gun toting pot smoker. Ask anyone I've ever explored with what kind of an explorer I am, if I'm loud and insane and breaking things and destroying UE sites. They'll laugh in your face.
Can we please get rid of these stereotypes?
richellesart.com
From now on and until the end of time, "Hip To Be Square" will conjure images of bloody bodies being hacked apart with axes.
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Roland
Location: Baltimore, MD
Gender: Male
Proud Leader of Brandishing a Firearm on the High Seas UE
| | | Re: An idea for UE as we move forward (You cannot post intelligently if you have not read whole thread)
<Reply # 139 on 11/10/2004 3:23 AM >
| | | | Rev. Skaught, I don't think that the majority of the people who posted in this thread and were critical of your idea had any objection to you forming a club of people who adhere to similar ethics as you do when exploring, it was the whole attitude that the UE community is falling apart, and somehow this urbanaught idea was going to save it. While you never came out and said it, it seemed as if you were implying that urbanaughts were going to be the great solution to UE's problems (which I really don't see as that dire) and that those people who aren't part of that solution would be part of the problem.
And the child molestion analogy is very poor. I admit that trespassing isn't quite as far down on the moral scale as stealing (especially when it comes to an abandoned building, and no, I've never taken anything from a location), but to draw an analogy with child molesters, saying that it's ok for you to feel morally superior to them, is in a completely different ballpark. Child molesters are about as far down on the moral scale as someone can get, and to make a comparison like that is just silly.
Finally, I seriously doubt that 70% of the posters on here (at least the ones who post on a regular basis) are the type of people who like to destroy and loot abandoned buildings.
[last edit 11/10/2004 3:41 AM by Roland - edited 1 times]
Buildings have two natural enemies- water, and bears. |
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